The Manic Street Preachers

[Backstage With Slowdive]

I'm going to see them this week. I decided to go because I had a little phase of looking at old videos of theirs on YouTube, mostly stuff I'd never seen, and then also listening to a few old singles and things. I get that phase every few years and it ends when I get sick of the over-wordy, under-clever album tracks.

But the main reason for seeing them is just that this will almost definitely be the final tour, and I haven't seen them since 1994 when a skeletal post-rehab Richey was still on stage with them, so I might as well see what they were like when they became a properly-successful band.

Anyone got any stronger feelings about them? I used to be able to get fairly angry about the mythologising and overpraise and so on, but I can't be bothered any more now they're beyond meaning anything.

[Defikon]

but the main reason for seeing them is just that this will almost definitely be the final tour

Eh? I assume you mean the final SATT tour, yes?

I saw them in Cardiff the other night, was good but not nearly enough Holy Bible stuff in the setlist. Still it was better than Glasto.

I've actually rediscovered my love of Manics this week, been playing Gold Against The Soul, The Holy Bible Non stop... and I also discovered that Know Your Enemy is actually not that bad!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yes, Know Your Enemy has one standard albums length worth of good tracks and a few unneccessary ones.

I like plenty of their stuff but the last one was completely uninvolving tosh.

A word for the latter-day Manics songs To Repel Ghosts and Intravenous Agnostic that I've always liked but never heard a word about in the positive or negative.

Motorcycle Emptiness will always be one of my favourite songs, it's a masterpiece to my ears.

[bill hicks]

My unending love for the Manics has had a long and zealous history on this board, so obviously I am very strongly in favour of them.

It's funny you should mention that you've been listening to them Defikon since this week I have listened to literally nothing but the Manic Street Preachers, every album, every single, watched every DVD...I mean Send Away the Tigers is on now.

Know Your Enemy has some problems, which I'm sure the band have always been aware of. They said at the time it was their attempt at a Sandinista style record...just chuck everything on there no matter whether it fit as a whole record or not, and it sounds like that. Year of Purification, Miss Europa Disco Dancer etc I can do without to be honest. But that album has Found That Soul, Let Robeson Sing, Ocean Spray, Baby Elian...it is far from a bad record. Even Royal Correspondent (which I've always regarded as a bit meh) has the really amazing outro section.

Lifesblood is great. It's low key, some of the songs are a little lightweight for a Manics record, but song by song it all stands up. There really isn't a bad track on it. Sadly there isn't a single amazing for the ages track either, but it's still a brilliant album.

Send Away the Tigers is also a brilliant record and has Second Great Depression, Autumnsong, Your Love Alone, I am Just a Patsy and Indian Summer on it. You can't hate a record with that quality of track...that's half the album for a start.

I also (during on of my twenty or so listens of the Holy Bible this week) just realised that in the left speaker during 4st 7lbs there is a choppy rhythm guitar riff that I had no idea was there until now. Bear in mind I have listened to that album probably several thousand times by now (I went through a period of listening to it before bed, usually twice through, on headphones which lasted about 4 years). I have owned four copies of that record because they've become knackered through overuse.

I also now realise that since I forgot it was Christmas until a few weeks ago (suddenly it was November) it never occured to me that the Manics would be touring and I should book tickets. This will be the first tour I've missed since 1994. They'd better fucking tour again.

[purlieu]

My first proper favourite band.  Rarely listen to them any more, and even when I do I find most of their catalogue dire, but at their strongest they can still really do it for me.  Everything Must Go is a fabulous record, The Holy Bible is a masterpiece and I fucking adore Lifeblood, but possibly because I like shiny, synthpop tinged alternative pop, and it's so wonderfully melancholy.  Otherwise... TIMTTMY and Know Your Enemy have a few decent moments (I'm in the minority of having Miss Europa Disco Dancer as one of my favourite Manics songs), and the first two albums have Condemned To Rock'n'Roll, Motorcycle Emptiness and Yourself so I can't write them off completely.  Send Away The Tigers I can't even listen to, though, it sounds so embarrassing to me, in a trying to recapture their old glories way - when I saw the Holy Bible font on the cover I almost cried.  Lifeblood showed them growing old gracefully, I don't know what to make of the new one.  Still don't own a copy, highly doubt I ever will.

[chand]

'Miss Europa Disco Dancer' is fun...now let's see if we can get anyone to admit to really liking 'Wattsville Blues'.

I can't listen to the Manics any more, I don't know why. I rarely revisit bands I really liked in the 90s and early 00s these days for some reason, with the possible exception of the Pumpkins...generally I don't find myself listening to records I feel like I know every note of any more. 'The Holy Bible' is fine, but I can't remember the last time I wanted to listen to their first two albums, or anything since really. They seem like an oddity to me these days, 'Autumnsong' is close to being good with its massive chorus, but is weighed down by an utterly pedestrian (!) verse, and the laughable 'done to your hair! Done to your hair!!!!' bits that bridge the verse and chorus. Which is a shame because, musically I like the way that builds and it sounds unexpected, it's just killed by repeating something so utterly inane. 'Your Love Alone Is Not Enough' just feels tremendously bland to me.

Slightly wary of criticising their modern output too much though; in the cold light of day those first two albums had plenty of dross on them, so I don't subscribe to the idea they went shit because of Richey's disappearance. 'The Holy Bible' was an anomaly on a career trajectory which makes much more sense if you ignore it. 'Everything Must Go' was a really good record, probably their most satisfying overall, THB excepted, so I don't hate their more populist, soundtrack-to-the-goal-of-the-month-competition side. I don't think they're bad or spectacularly worse than they used to be, I'm just not that interested in them as an existing band.

[The Plaque Goblin]

All the post-Everything... albums are inconsistent.

But how many bands make it beyond four albums at all?

[trotsky assortment]

After hearing bits of 'This Is My Truth' and 'Know Your Enemy' after they were released, I gave them up as a bad job.  Though not perfect, 'Send Away The Tigers' has made me feel much more positive about The Manic Street Preachers in general.

[The Plaque Goblin]

The pre-HB albums are conconsitent too.

How many bands make it beyond two albums nowadays?

[variant]

I agree with (almost) everything bill hicks said up there. The only difference is, I am going to see them on this tour - at the Brighton Centre on Friday and am rather excited thank you very much.

I love this band more than any other and more than is probably healthy.

It's worth pointing out that they have a free Christmas song available to download form their website. It's called Ghosts Of Christmas and it's ace (but then I would say that).

[trotsky assortment]

Thanks variant. I'll check that out.

[jaydee81]

I'd file the Manics' Holy Bible under Ronnie Raincoats' Becoming Intolerant thread... when I was 15 I really got into it and couldn't understand why all bands didn't sing about politics and anorexia...
Now I like listening to songs about puppies and kittens and find their 'radical polemic' a bit embarrassing really...
The Holy Bible crystallised how I felt as a teenager... I don't think I could listen to it again... sigh....

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Love them.  First band I was a proper zealot fan of. Probably always will love them no matter how many insipid, lyrically awful albums they spit out.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I think I may have told this story a couple of times before on here, but when I was about 16 and going through a bit of a punk phase, a friend and I smashed up my copy of This Is My Truth... and scrawled vague agitprop slogans on the case as some sort of statement against bands that go all corporate and whatnot.

Now that I'm older and I've realised that music tastes don't need to be snootily exclusive, I rather regret doing that as there were some nice tunes on that album.

[Ronnie the Raincoat]

Some of my punk friends didn't like the Manics and slagged me off for being a fan.  I played "Motown Junk" to them without telling them who it was and they were all nodding saying, "Dudddde this is real music". Cretins.

[lipsink]

I think I may have told this story a couple of times before on here, but when I was about 16 and going through a bit of a punk phase, a friend and I smashed up my copy of This Is My Truth... and scrawled vague agitprop slogans on the case as some sort of statement against bands that go all corporate and whatnot.

Now that I'm older and I've realised that music tastes don't need to be snootily exclusive, I rather regret doing that as there were some nice tunes on that album.

I'm going slightly off-topic here but it reminds me of footage I saw recently of Foo Fighters playing some UK festival when Dave Grohl said "I think we hear some dance music coming from that other stage over there." To which the crowd booed. Grohl did some mock noises of dance beats before saying: "What do ya say we drown them out, eh?" The crowd then did a massive cheer. Yeah, right so nobody in that audience has ever bought a dance record. "Rawwwk!!!!"

[Tom Pynchon's Photo]

'Miss Europa Disco Dancer' is fun...now let's see if we can get anyone to admit to really liking 'Wattsville Blues'.

Taa-daa, here I am.

Always thought it sounded Pixies-like. I might be wrong. Probably am.

Haven't listened to it in a while, but always remembered liking it.
I shall dig it out right now and listen to it.


The trouble I think with Know Your Enemy, is that it starts off really strong, with very good individual sounding songs, then melts down to a sameness of tunes. If you listen to those songs on their own they're pretty good. But I can see why some might dismiss that album.

Only Manics album I don't care for is Gold Against the Soul. And yet it has 4 fantastic songs on it, at least.

[Anon]

Send Away The Tigers I can't even listen to, though, it sounds so embarrassing to me, in a trying to recapture their old glories way - when I saw the Holy Bible font on the cover I almost cried.  Lifeblood showed them growing old gracefully, I don't know what to make of the new one.  Still don't own a copy, highly doubt I ever will.

I thought the same thing as you when I saw that cover, but it is actually a pretty solid album.  Even Your Love Alone Is Not Enough, which on its own does sound a little anaemic, does sound a lot better on the album.  I would recommend giving it a chance - it's not Everything Must Go (or Holy Bible of course), but it is a pretty good album, maybe a little better than Lifeblood.

Back to the main topic, I can find something to like in pretty much every Manics record, apart from maybe the dirge-addled mess This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours, but even that has Tsunami and My Little Empire on it.  Obviously, THB and EMG are the two pinnacles, but Gold Against The Soul, Lifeblood and Send Away The Tigers are all great albums, and Know Your Enemy and Generation Terrorists have their moments as well.  I do agree that The Holy Bible is more of an anomaly than anything else (but what an anomaly...), but as a whole their back catalogue isn't too shabby.

Do hope you're wrong about this being the last tour though, Mr. Slowdive Groupie - not got round to seeing them yet!

[purlieu]

I thought the same thing as you when I saw that cover, but it is actually a pretty solid album.  Even Your Love Alone Is Not Enough, which on its own does sound a little anaemic, does sound a lot better on the album.  I would recommend giving it a chance - it's not Everything Must Go (or Holy Bible of course), but it is a pretty good album, maybe a little better than Lifeblood.

I could give it another listen, but to be honest I've been through it five or six times, and deleted it from my computer as I don't think I enjoyed a single verse or chorus from one song.  Just really irritated me in every way.

[bill hicks]

Thanks variant. I'll check that out.

If you can download it. I've tried four fucking times and every time it says the zip file is corrupt. I will get around to soulseeking it at some point.

[Spiteface]

'Miss Europa Disco Dancer' is fun...now let's see if we can get anyone to admit to really liking 'Wattsville Blues'.

I do, and I think "Ballad of the Bangkok Novotel" should have been on that album...

Saw them in cardiff last week - great, but it is just WRONG to see people clapping during "She is Suffering"...

Anyone like the solo albums?  "I Killed the Zeitgeist" by Nicky Wire was pretty good...

[trotsky assortment]

If you can download it. I've tried four fucking times and every time it says the zip file is corrupt. I will get around to soulseeking it at some point.

I won't bother then. It'll turn up somewhere else eventually.

[Wolski]

I'm fairly ambivalent towards their other stuff, but The Holy Bible is one of my favourite albums. It's just fascinating, there really aren't many records like it - the raw, undiluted feelings of a genuinely mentally unstable person moulded into punchy and melodic guitar music. I'd like to have seen the looks on the other members' faces when Richey handed them the lyrics for '4st 7lb' or 'Of Walking Abortion'.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

It's just fascinating, there really aren't many records like it - the raw, undiluted feelings of a genuinely mentally unstable person moulded into punchy and melodic guitar music.

Apart from all of Kristin Hersh's output.

[Famous Mortimer]

Apart from all of Kristin Hersh's output.

Didn't she get "cured" in some form around the time of her first solo album though?

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Not noticeably.

[jaydee81]

If someone was interested in acquiring the output of Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donnelly... what would one recommend as a starting point?

[joeyzaza]

If someone was interested in acquiring the output of Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donnelly... what would one recommend as a starting point?

"The Real Ramona" and "Red Heaven" are probably the most accessible Throwing Muses albums (no Tanya on the latter though). For raw, undiluted Muses, I'd go for their eponymously-titled first album (not to be confused with their 2003 album of the same name).

Tanya only ever contributed one or two songs per album with the Muses, so I'd recommend the two Belly albums, "Star" and "King", which were the first albums that she was the main creative force on. The 2002 best-of compilation "Sweet Ride" is also a pretty decent summary of Belly's output.

For their respective solo work, it's probably best to start with the earliest album ("Hips & Makers" for Hersh and "Lovesongs for Underdogs" for Donelly) and then work your way forward chronologically from there.

[jaydee81]

Thanks!

[Backstage With Slowdive]

For examples of actual mental-illness-inspired songwriting, see Delicate Cutters and Hate My Way (first TM album), Devil's Roof (Hunkpapa), Hook In Her Head (Real Ramona).

Anyway...

I went along to Brixton Academy, the infamous location where the atrocity of Mighty Boosh Live was perpetrated. Such a sombre monument to inhumanity and suffering would be the ideal venue for a solid run-through of all of The Holy Bible, and then backwards again for good measure, but instead they played this:

Motorcycle Emptiness
<something off new album>
You Love Us
Roses In The Hospital
Ocean Spray
Everything Must Go
Slash'N'Burn
1985
Kevin Carter
La Tristesse Durera
If You Tolerate This...
You Stole The Sun From My Heart
Little Baby Nothing
Your Love Is Not Enough
<song I don't recognise, about "Black Sheep">
Send Away The Tigers
She Sells Sanctuary->Motown Junk
This Is Yesterday (acoustic)
The Everlasting (acoustic)
Forever Delayed
The Masses Against The Classes
A Design For Life

That's not the correct order, apart from the start and end tracks. There might have been an encore but I didn't stay for it, being repelled by the spectacle of everyone else in the circle getting up and swaying about, most of them clutching pint glasses. Suddenly I understand all the fuss that the old MSP fans made about the new intake back in 1997. I also notice that JDB encouraged the audience to clap their hands above their heads, which reminded me of an interview from the end of 1994 in which he'd said the big difference between his band and The Quireboys was that the latter would encourage the fans to... etc.

Other details: Nicky claiming he couldn't remember if Richey had played at Brixton Academy (it's a safe bet he did, they were playing venues this size from the second album onward), they also said Forever Delayed was the best single they'd never released and regretted putting out There But For The Grace Of God instead. Funnily enough Nicky didn't slag off The Everlasting even though he used to. And so on. During the acoustic bit the other two cleared off and Nicky came back wearing a skirt.

They also claimed they are in next week's NME and they've done well, maybe won the poll or something. So that means there'll probably be another album after all. I don't think I'll bother next tour though, as this didn't sound as good as the last time I saw them (October 1994) even though they now have a proper second guitarist, as well as a bloke with keyboards.

To be honest, I only went so I could write a gratuitous anti-Boosh comment on CaB anyway.