Your Music Shitlist

[CaledonianGonzo]

Well, the thread had taken an interesting turn until Lalla pulled the old 'Youth Culture Exhibit A - I don't understand what I'm supposed to like' in his faux-naif shit-stirring way, when you know all he's desperate to do is bring the subject round to a comparison with something he likes so he can once more attempt to describe why his tastes are, actually, you know, better, surely, before floundering and giving an utter bollock of a 'reason'.

"You can hear the glint in his eye!"

I'm not interested in joining in a playground pile-on with Lalla as the bottom man, but ultimately I think he needs to concede that some of his taste is influenced by fondness for the stuff he liked as a younger man.  As, I would say, is most people's.  Granted, some people have massive musical volte-faces when something clicks for them (as happened to one of my friends who went overnight from an MC Hammer fan to a Nirvana acolyte), but even then 20 years on they'll still have a sneaking affection for some of the stuff they used to disown - and the love for the band that changed their world will most assuredly never go away.

In fact, there's nothing inherently wrong with nostalgia, as long as it doesn't act as  an inhibitor and prevent you looking around and enjoying the environment as is.  Fair enough not understanding/liking Arcade Fire or Radiohead - but if that applies to all new music that passes your way, then it might be the case that the problem is not with the climate but with the 'consumer' of the climate.  Unfortunately, all this talk of listening to stuff 'under the bedclothes' and being wistful for the mid 80s is just longing for an idealised past that can never return. 

Might be a cuntish thing to bring up at this juncture, but this thread where he bangs on about people who grew up in the 90s having nothing to get nostalgic about, whereas the 80s was a comparative paradise, did wind me up.

I have this theory that 'the 90s generation' will never, ever write nostalgic articles/books/films in the same vein. I don't even think 90s nostalgia will ever happen. I think the 80s was the last decade where there was enough common ground among kids to make that kind of 'Do you remember the Rubik's cube?' nostalgia meaningful.
..
What's unique to the 90s and 00s?

Unfortunately, I doubt he'll ever concede the point as it would undermine 7 years of carefully-constructed argument that comedy's not as good as it used to be.  The contention that one (not particularly funny) line from NTNOCN is better than the sum total of every single piece of comedy produced since 1997 is just the latest (and most extreme) instance of this mindset.

[chand]

I seriously can't imagine any member of Tool wearing a swastika shirt, even 'ironically', so damned if I know what's up there (I suppose Maynard's a bit of an Eastern mysticism kook, so some form of 'right-way-round' swastika on his shirt isn't outside the realms of possibility, but I digress), but as for Hicks, Lee can go fuck himself if he's taking issue with Tool over BH -- the band admired and eventually befriended Hicks in life; why in the fuck should they not pay tribute to him when he died?  And if their 'endorsement' of Hicks introduced a few dimmer bulbs to his work, then big fucking deal.

The swastika thing did happen, I can't remember if it was Crispin Mills-style 'reclaiming the swastika's peaceful roots' stuff or not, though Googling suggests it was a picture of a swastika with 'Vote Republican' on it. Either way, fairly clumsy, but it hardly invalidates their music. I don't see the problem in Tool befriending Hicks either; they felt they had a similar perspective on the world.

[Johnny Yesno]

Nah, I'm not having this. You most definitely don't need to understand anything formal and compositional to appreciate Bach, or any classical music.

On the whole I agree with this. His music was made for listening to, not academia. However, I guess some understanding of the compositional techniques of the day plus a bit of music history might help the modern listener get into the mindset of the listener of the day. I don't know how plausible that is, though - the world just isn't like it was then so how could the modern listener truly feel when to "laugh at the right time"? And we're neatly back to frames of reference again...

[olafr]

This is a bit simplistic. If one understands the formal, compositional nature of classical music such as Bach's, a strong intellectual element must come into play. If one doesn't, there's bound to be a feeling of something missing in one's appreciation of the music.
I don't think this applies very much to 'pop' music though, because the formal, structural elements are less important.

I'm not sure about this. I think, generally, any 'intellectual' understanding of Bach (or similar's) work is a bonus rather than the bulk of what's on offer. The tunes should speak for themselves but when they reveal more, that's like an easter egg of sorts.

Although it should be pointed out that perhaps perhaps Bach isn't the best example in all this considering he wrote so many pieces that could be loosely labelled exercises.

[Little Hoover]

You know what I think lalla would like, the Arrested Development theme tune.

(seriously tell, me if this is getting annoying and I'll stop)

[threeism]

(I agree Bach isn't a great example.) Listening to C19th Classical/Romantic music without a good knowledge of the sonata form puts you in the same position as someone listening to a film soundtrack. Classical music is based on the manipulation of certain  conventions and structural forms, without which it is reduced to a bunch of the pretty tunes, stirring melodies and rhythms etc. - isolated moments of pleasure that can't be related to the whole. Thus ClassicFM.
Personally, the rules and conventions of pre-C20th music seem quite arbitrary and robotic to me, and I find most of it somewhat nauseating to listen to.

 

[olafr]

(I agree Bach isn't a great example.) Listening to C19th Classical/Romantic music without a good knowledge of the sonata form puts you in the same position as someone listening to a film soundtrack.

And yet there's a thread here devoted to people proffering soundtracks  (non-compilation kind) that the enjoy. As I said, I think sometimes just listening and enjoying the music is enough.

Classical music is based on the manipulation of certain  conventions and structural forms, without which it is reduced to a bunch of the pretty tunes, stirring melodies and rhythms etc. - isolated moments of pleasure that can't be related to the whole. Thus ClassicFM.
Personally, the rules and conventions of pre-C20th music seem quite arbitrary and robotic to me, and I find most of it somewhat nauseating to listen to.

I see it differently - partly because we all do. We're living in a weird pluralistic post-modern society where anything goes and the idea that anyone could/should only make music that adheres to particular conventions just seems messed-up now. Then again, other artforms purposely hamstring themselves in similar ways and it doesn't necessarily detract from what they achieve despite the limits of form: haiku, renga (&c), sonnets.

[jaydee81]

I realise now who I hate most musically, as I sit here in work forced to watch his god awful videos. 50 Cent.
You always have to work out whether stuff you like is just because it doesn't suit your taste or whether it is plain sh!t. I was sat in work the other day whilst someone played Gallows, which was just plain awful. I said so and was met with the response 'don't slate something you don't understand.'
I think R 'N' B can get a hard time, the ubiquity (is that a word) of it in the charts means its easier to dismiss it than something more niche like death metal. I'm not a big fan of the work of Mary J Blige, but watching her on Jools Holland with lil Thom Yorke dancing away when it cut to him, I did realise she doesn't really talk to me.
50 Cent on the other hand is just so wrong for so many obvious reasons.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Jeez - I still stand by my post at the top of this page, but I'm starting to feel guilty that Lalla hasn't posted since.  It certainly wasn't my intention to pwn him, as I believe the youth of today would have it.  If I did that (I don't really know).

And The Boston Crab has left as well - I'm a jinx!  A jonah!  A wielder of the evil eye!

[jaydee81]

Oh you're such a troll Gonzo! Heehee.

[Clone Army]

I'm not the most expressive writer in the world but there are simply not the words to convey the depth of my hatred for The Feeling and their brand of insipid, clichéd, non-music. My violent physical reaction to their latest abortion: "I Thought It Was Over" this morning was bordering on the fatal.

In no real order, unforgivable musical offences committed in this 'song':

The lyrics,
Copious synthesizer "pew-shuu"s and reverse piano sweeps,
Delay echo on vocals,
Clapping,
Noodly piano,
Horrible lead guitar lifted entirely from the Blockbusters theme,
Slow, deliberate off-tempo drum breakdown ala Radio Ga Ga.

[thugler]

I realise now who I hate most musically, as I sit here in work forced to watch his god awful videos. 50 Cent.
You always have to work out whether stuff you like is just because it doesn't suit your taste or whether it is plain sh!t. I was sat in work the other day whilst someone played Gallows, which was just plain awful.

I find their popularity absolutely baffling. I used to know the lead singer also, which makes it more annoying.

[alan nagsworth]

Top of my list: bands who think they're writing crowd-roaring Match Of The Day-theme anthems.

See: The Fratellis - Chelsea Dagger; Pigeon Detectives - I Found Out.

It's that drum breakdown shit that Clone Army mentioned that really winds me up. "GOING OUT WITH, IS SHE GOING OUT WITH!" Die now.

[Part Chimp]

I've never actually heard The Fratellis, but their name is so ugly that I just can't bring myself to investigate. Sometimes you just know, you know?

[alan nagsworth]

I know.

[buttgammon]

I've never actually heard The Fratellis, but their name is so ugly that I just can't bring myself to investigate. Sometimes you just know, you know?

You lucky sod for having not heard the Fratellis!

By the way, you are spot on.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'm going to venture a small voice of support for The Fratellis.  They're not amazing by any stretch, but I think they've got some above-average songwriting skills going on.

nagsworth complains that they "think they're writing crowd-roaring Match Of The Day-theme anthems".  Well, in Chelsea Dagger The Fratellis have actually done that - its ubiquitous post goal/try-score.  It's a great drunken singalong single.  Not appropriate for those more sensitive moments, but I see no problem with it as a sleazy Saturday night anthem.  Its not particularly clever, but I do enjoy it in a big, stupid Bolan throwback kind of way.  I can enjoy Cum On Feel The Noize, Get It On, Rebel Rebel and Cigarettes & Alcohol.  Chelsea Dagger is cut from similar cloth.

Years ago the NME started hyping a band called Heavy Stereo who were supposed to do for glam rock what Oasis had down for Beatles-esque pop .  This was at a time when Oasis were still a good band (and I maintain that up until the release of Some Might Say they were) and I was looking forward to hearing big, noisy, stupid, dirty glam-rock from ver Stereo.  One decent song (Smiler) aside, the results were dubious at best.  The Fratellis actually sound quite like what I thought Heavy Stereo would sound like, and I kind of admire of the brazen retro-ness of it all.

I dislike some of their material (Whistle For The Choir) and live they're a charisma-free personality-vacuums, but I do like the fact that they're not kids and seem to have been around the block a bit.  I think they might even be in their early 30s and, when I switch my brain off, their debut album surprising consistency to it.

[Murdo]

1. Teenage Fanclub - My least favourite anything ever. They make me literally want to vomit when I have the misfortune of hearing them.

2. Belle & Sebastian

3. Travis

4. Orange Juice

5. BMX Bandits (unsurprisingly)

I do love some Scottish bands i.e. Arab Strap, Mogwai, Jesus and Mary Chain etc. but those 5, oh those 5, I'd have them shot.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Ah - but where d'you stand on The Pastels?  Stephen Pastel (theoretically) stands with one foot in the camp you like and one foot in the camp you hate?

[Murdo]

80's Pastels = good

90's Pastels = shit

00's Pastels = meh

They are sitting right on my fence (cheerfully waving).

[terminallyrelaxed]

The Killers - a bunch of tone-deaf fuckwits imitating a rock band.

[Geraint]

nagsworth complains that they "think they're writing crowd-roaring Match Of The Day-theme anthems".  Well, in Chelsea Dagger The Fratellis have actually done that - its ubiquitous post goal/try-score.

and that's the fucking problem. it's a song that has been near-unanimously decided by marketing cunts to be canned euphoria in musical form, when in reality it's so fucking pedestrian, a bland ladrock single that there are 10 or more of every year. I said in some GB topic about 'most depressing things' that there was nothing bleaker than football stadium PA staff playing this shit when a goal is scored, and i wasn't exaggerating at all. my club, Plymouth Argyle, jumped on this particular bandwagon 18 months ago, and there's nothing that dispels the illusion of a small club slowly becoming more ambitious and 'big-time' while remaining true to it's roots than some grubby little shit in PR thinking the best way to harness 15,000 people who want to celebrate a goal is to get them to sing along "DA DA NA NA DA NA NA DA NAA NAA NAA NAAA" over the top of some generic clatter. it's an employee of your beloved football club telling you that he thinks you're all fucking morons.  i've written letters of complaint and everything :( we should never be trying to emulate bolton fucking wanderers. 

even if you liked the thing, you can't help but hear the worst part of it multiple times every day on tv, on the radio, at every pub/club in the western world... it's inescapable and has been for about 2 years now

[Mindbear]

I don't like the Fratellis. Then again, I didn't like Heavy Stereo either.

[Marvin]

1. Teenage Fanclub - My least favourite anything ever. They make me literally want to vomit when I have the misfortune of hearing them.

2. Belle & Sebastian

3. Travis

4. Orange Juice

5. BMX Bandits (unsurprisingly

What you wrote about Teenage Fanclub - I find that utterly bizarre. I think I need to have a sit down.

Travis I'll go with, but Teenage Fanclub? Vomit? Wha? And the others are nae bad.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Geraint's post's just SO right. Scoring a goal is the most exciting thing that can happen in a football match. The people who run football clubs seem to think that we need that moment of joy and jubilation enhanced somehow and the best way to do that is by playing the fucking Fratellis.

Still, it's not quite as bad as the compulsory half time singalongs of "Is This The Way to Amarillo?" that were the in thing among moronic football PA DJs circa 2005. That song's on my shitlist. Top of my shitlist.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Geraint's post's just SO right. Scoring a goal is the most exciting thing that can happen in a football match. The people who run football clubs seem to think that we need that moment of joy and jubilation enhanced somehow and the best way to do that is by playing the fucking Fratellis.

Still, it's not quite as bad as the compulsory half time singalongs of "Is This The Way to Amarillo?" that were the in thing among moronic football PA DJs circa 2005. That song's on my shitlist. Top of my shitlist.

Well - whether music is needed in football grounds is another subject, but I still like Chelsea Dagger.  Maybe one for the guilty pleasures thread, but I stand by it. 

What you wrote about Teenage Fanclub - I find that utterly bizarre. I think I need to have a sit down.  Travis I'll go with, but Teenage Fanclub? Vomit? Wha? And the others are nae bad.

I'm more surprised that he even has the misfortune of hearing Teenage Fanclub at all.  Fair enough, its more likely in Glasgow than any other city on the planet, but its not like they're ubiquitous by any stretch of the imagination.  Even then, its only on the rare day in Mono or The 13th Note, which I'm guessing aren't particularly Murdo-esque haunts.

[Famous Mortimer]

I'm more surprised that he even has the misfortune of hearing Teenage Fanclub at all. 

They are a band you'd have to go out of your way to listen to, especially in 2008. Maybe the year after "Bandwagonesque" came out, and the summer of "Radio", but not much apart from that surely?

[Murdo]

I'm more surprised that he even has the misfortune of hearing Teenage Fanclub at all.  Fair enough, its more likely in Glasgow than any other city on the planet, but its not like they're ubiquitous by any stretch of the imagination.  Even then, its only on the rare day in Mono or The 13th Note, which I'm guessing aren't particularly Murdo-esque haunts.

I had the misfortune of aurally bumping into them the other day on MTV2. I know I should have changed the channel but I was too busy ranting at Mrs M about how I'd have them all shot, my need to vomit etc.

They are a band you'd have to go out of your way to listen to, especially in 2008. Maybe the year after "Bandwagonesque" came out, and the summer of "Radio", but not much apart from that surely?

No maybe about it, after 'Bandwagonesque' came out you could not escape their particular bland of bland. That was however back in the day when I had 'haunts' sniff!

[aaaaaaaaaargh!]

and that's the fucking problem. it's a song that has been near-unanimously decided by marketing cunts to be canned euphoria in musical form, when in reality it's so fucking pedestrian, a bland ladrock single that there are 10 or more of every year. I said in some GB topic about 'most depressing things' that there was nothing bleaker than football stadium PA staff playing this shit when a goal is scored, and i wasn't exaggerating at all. my club, Plymouth Argyle, jumped on this particular bandwagon 18 months ago, and there's nothing that dispels the illusion of a small club slowly becoming more ambitious and 'big-time' while remaining true to it's roots than some grubby little shit in PR thinking the best way to harness 15,000 people who want to celebrate a goal is to get them to sing along "DA DA NA NA DA NA NA DA NAA NAA NAA NAAA" over the top of some generic clatter. it's an employee of your beloved football club telling you that he thinks you're all fucking morons.  i've written letters of complaint and everything :( we should never be trying to emulate bolton fucking wanderers. 

even if you liked the thing, you can't help but hear the worst part of it multiple times every day on tv, on the radio, at every pub/club in the western world... it's inescapable and has been for about 2 years now

100% agreed.

They did that sort of cuntery at Euro 2000.  Of course, this lead to the bizzare playing of the Championes (or whatever the fucking thing is called) song when Savo Milosevic scored his injury time goal against the Netherlands in the third quarter final.  That would be the goal which changed the scoreline from 6-0 to the Netherlands to 6-1!  Everyone in the ground looked confused as fuck.

They've started doing it at Murrayfield for Scotland rugby union matches and I hate it (the playing of the music that is).

[simondykes]

1.Arcade Fire.
2.MGMT
3.Moldy Peaches (and solo efforts by Adam Green & Kimya Dawson)
4.Van Der Graaf Generator
5.The Ramones
6.Frank Zappa
7.Devendra Banhart
8.Daniel Johnston
9.Dan Le Sac Vs Scroobius Pip
10.No Age
...oh,this list could have gone on forever.I can rave all day about my likes and rant all night about my hates.Looking at this list,it looks like I've got a real down on American artists,which isn't true,being a fan of Laura Veirs,Iron & Wine,The Flaming Lips,Grandaddy,amongst dozens of others.I think that my hatred of most of the above ten comes from havng worked in record shops for the last couple of years and being told that these very ordinary and uninteresting records are 'great' over and over again,and seeing nothing that appeals to me in them,getting more and more rednecked about it until I explode in a diatribe (as I did recently about Paul Simon) which generally upsets fans of the band in question.(I don't hold back.)
Arcade Fire are the worst example of this,an exceptionally dull band who add the odd flourish of,say,church organ to a non-song and then get raved about for the breadth of their sonic pallette.I also got wound up when a friend of mine went to see them and told me that after the gig,they followed the punters into the foyer of the venue and continued to play for them.I would have shouted,"Oi!Get back on the stage!There's a line here,man!" before twatting one of them with their dulcimer.I could easily have put Bright Eyes,come to think of it.MGMT are my current bugbears,because if one more person compares them with the mighty Flaming Lips,I'll...I'll....roll over them in a giant transparent ball.Moldy Peaches are part of the smug superior (mostly) New York set that includes Jeffrey Lewis and Why? (though bizarrely,not LCD Soundsystem,who I adore) with their clever-clever lyrics and smarter-than-thou attitudes.Van Der Graaf are in there because I truly believe 'Pawn Hearts' is possibly the worst album I've ever heard.The Ramones could have gone under 'don't get',I suppose,but I also genuinely don't like them.Frank Zappa...ooh,don't get me started.Devendra Banhart with his painful 'ooh,I'm MAD,me!' stylings,the folk Colin Hunt.Daniel Johnston,I'm sorry he's not well,but mad wibble does not equal genius.(Though oddly,I have heard other people singing his songs and quite liked them,so perhaps I'm talking out of my arse as usual after all...)Dan Le Sac,as has been noted earlier in this thread,seem to inspire an almost instant hatred in the listener.If he really thinks The Beatles were 'just a band',he shouldn't be making music.(And if,as some of my friends have claimed,"he doesn't really mean it",well,isn't that worse?)No Age....oh,that could have been Four Non Blondes or Genesis or The Doors,some pile of steaming cack or other anyway....

Don't Get:
After years of struggle,I've finally given up on Joy Division/New Order;both bands have had their moments (some great singles) but I really can't see what inspires the ferocious devotion to them.I think 'Control' was the last straw,to be honest...
I've also in recent years fallen out of love with PJ Harvey,MC5 and Tom Waits,but am not going to start slagging any of them off here.