Is Ken Livingstone an alcoholic? Does it matter?

[Pylon Man]

The problem with Boris though, is even if he is a liberaterian and all that and even if that is the best way to govern, the man's a complete idiot. He was asked once why he'd supported some controversial legislation and he gave an explination in typical Boris fashion. Then the interviewer explained that, no, the legislation wasn't that at all, it was actually like this. To which he said something like "Oh. Er." and then admitted that maybe he'd been wrong and then waffled on some more. And the other week he wrote an article saying that black people have lower IQs than other races. Then he said he'd been taken out of context.

[its not cool to be weird]

The problem with Boris though, is even if he is a liberaterian and all that and even if that is the best way to govern, the man's a complete idiot. He was asked once why he'd supported some controversial legislation and he gave an explination in typical Boris fashion. Then the interviewer explained that, no, the legislation wasn't that at all, it was actually like this. To which he said something like "Oh. Er." and then admitted that maybe he'd been wrong and then waffled on some more. And the other week he wrote an article saying that black people have lower IQs than other races. Then he said he'd been taken out of context.

You'll need to provide the article there, or at least say where to find it. Not only are people misunderstood frequently on this sort of subject anyway, but when its politics, and particularly when Ken's smear campaign is underway, the truth can be twisted quite absurdly.

As for being an idiot, he isn't, he's just very selectively interested in politics. Like Biggy I'm of the opinion that a self-serving and fairly uninterested man is better in this position, or any position of power, than a self-serving cynical liar like Livingstone. But if you disagree you can always vote for the Lib Dem, which I suspect is as good as voting for Ken.

[Marvin]

Nah. Everybodies better off when politicians interfere less with their lives. Politicians 'helping' poor people is like Lennie from Of Mice and Men petting mice.

Much better just to leave the mice to eat our crumbs is it?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Politicians interfere with our live sbecause they are essentially the heads of local pressure groups. So they interfere because we specifically instruct them to interfere, which led to all sorts of useful things in the past such as the abolition of slavery.

[NoSleep]

...a self-serving cynical liar like Livingstone...

Could you give some details of these lies and self-serving? He's always seemed straight talking, genuine and an enabler of people to me.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Here's a report on the articlw, which Boris didn't write, but allowed through as editor of The Spectator:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23471866-details/Boris+says+sorry+over+'blacks+have+lower+IQs'+article+in+the+Spectator/article.do

[Pseudopath]

The original article was a typically-hateful Taki rant in The Spectator, written over five years ago (I seem to remember a hoohah about it at the time) about different brain sizes amongst whites, orientals and blacks and supposed links to intelligence. As Boris was editor of the magazine at the time, Red Ken is asserting that Boris must have at least condoned Taki's views, if not agreed with them wholeheartedly.

If that's the best he can do, Livingstone must be panicking (or pissed).

[Pylon Man]

Ah right, he didn't write it. And it's not "traditionally" racist, in the sense that it was an Asian who obviously believed in Hitler-style Asian superiority. Wouldn't have thought that would have gone down well anywhere, let alone a right-wing mag, although maybe the anti-blackness levelled it out.

[biggytitbo]

Politicians interfere with our live sbecause they are essentially the heads of local pressure groups. So they interfere because we specifically instruct them to interfere, which led to all sorts of useful things in the past such as the abolition of slavery.

Brilliant! Slavery was abolished because a bunch of rich men decided amongst themselves, after years of campaigning by a few inspired individuals to abolish slavery. That's how the world worked then and how it works now.

You forgot to add such things as wars, most of the land owned by <1% of people, the banking system and the multi generational shafting of the poor to the list of wonderous things politicians have gifted us, because we all got on our knees and begged them to totally fuck us over didn't we?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Aides suspect that the Livingstone camp will use the race claims in a desperate last bid to hold on to office.

Uh? So is he going to get trounced or is that just incompetent sensationalism?

[ThickAndCreamy]

Uh? So is he going to get trounced or is that just incompetent sensationalism?

Sensationalism. It seems as if every news article seems to be against Ken for any reason imaginable and find the idea of him winning laughable, I still don't understand why.

[jutl]

Ah right, he didn't write it. And it's not "traditionally" racist, in the sense that it was an Asian who obviously believed in Hitler-style Asian superiority.

Taki's Greek. Also, although I have no desire to see Johnson win, it's a bit disingenuous of Livingstone to suggest that Johnson ought not to have 'employed' Taki. His High Life column has been in The Spectator for decades and Johnson just inherited him, along with Jeffrey Bernard and a cast of other drunks, dunces and cunts.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

The London rags are all anti-Ken; the Evening Standard has always taken a hard stance against him. Last week you could witness many of those placards newsvendors have, all proudly beaming "KEN: 'I'LL STEAL BORIS'S IDEAS'". Story here:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-mayor/article-23470409-details/I%27ll+steal+Boris+ideas%2C+admits+rattled+Ken/article.do

[George Oscar Bluth II]

The London mayorall election has been ace, great entertainment for all and there's still a month left. Every city should have one.

[its not cool to be weird]

Politicians interfere with our live sbecause they are essentially the heads of local pressure groups. So they interfere because we specifically instruct them to interfere, which led to all sorts of useful things in the past such as the abolition of slavery.

I just don't think that's true anymore.

Mr Livingstone, who appeared alongside Martin Luther King's son yesterday

Fuck off.

There's certainly a surprising amount of anti-Ken stuff around, and a lot of uncertainty about whether he'll get back in, personally I think he will. Sadly.

Taki was a maniac but of course one of the Spectator's strengths was printing people pretty much whatever they said. The real problem with Taki's high life column was that nothing he said was worth anything, just his own tedious observations and bigotry. And yes he's Greek.

Could you give some details of these lies and self-serving? He's always seemed straight talking, genuine and an enabler of people to me.

Well there's the biggest lie, the way he portrays himself, which people seem happy to suck up. And don't confuse boorish arrogance with straight talking. Enabler of people, well I just listed the not so minor detail of how he's fucking over thousands of eastenders. He criticised the Tories in the mid-nineties with the claim that spending too long in power leads to corruption. Well for once we are in agreement, he and I, as the latest money scandals surrounding his aides has shown, but then of course he knew nothing about all that. And as for immoral, his pathetic vote-grabbing manouvering about ethnic groups, photo calls with Martin Luter King's son I mean COME ON (Boris may be a Tory dullard but at least he hasn't sunk that low, not to my knowledge). And inviting that cleric, no small matter the man was the antithesis of everything decent in our society, still he got a warm handshake from London's mayor and probably a few fine cigars from Ken's old mate Hugo, paid for by London's poor.

Rant over, sorry if that's a bit directionless.

Now as I asked before, where is this evidence of him helping Londoners, and London's poor?

[Famous Mortimer]

Nah. Everybodies better off when politicians interfere less with their lives. Politicians 'helping' poor people is like Lennie from Of Mice and Men petting mice.

The point is, Johnson will be interfering in the same amount of peoples' lives, only making them worse. Have you got the faintest idea what his policies and views actually are, or did you just hear "Libertarian" and then immediately stop paying attention?

You'll need to provide the article there, or at least say where to find it.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23433540-details/I+didn't+mean+to+be+racist+,+claims+Boris/article.do

[biggytitbo]

The point is, Johnson will be interfering in the same amount of peoples' lives, only making them worse. Have you got the faintest idea what his policies and views actually are, or did you just hear "Libertarian" and then immediately stop paying attention?

But as I said, I want to see London hit by an asteroid. I want to see an utter tool elected so he can fuck London up. And if I had to choose between tools, i'd choose Boris over Livingstone because he is less personally offensive to me, and a damn site more amusing.

[weekender]

As a former alcoholic, I think it's quite important that the country is governed by non-alchoholics.  When I was properly hungover I used to cry when watching all the sad stories on Neighbours, I was that mentally fucked from the booze.  You can't run a country like that.

[NoSleep]

Well there's the biggest lie, the way he portrays himself, which people seem happy to suck up.

Well call me a happy sucker, if it makes you feel better.

And don't confuse boorish arrogance with straight talking.

I wouldn't think of doing so. That's your opinion, let's see some evidence.

Enabler of people, well I just listed the not so minor detail of how he's fucking over thousands of eastenders.

So far I've found evidence for 425 residents. In an area undergoing an overall regeneration programme which includes the building of more homes than appear to be going. Regarding the impact of the 2012 Olympics: there appears to be wide usage of existing spaces and facilities around London to minimise the need for new structures.

He criticised the Tories in the mid-nineties with the claim that spending too long in power leads to corruption. Well for once we are in agreement, he and I, as the latest money scandals surrounding his aides has shown, but then of course he knew nothing about all that.

Who knows?

And as for immoral, his pathetic vote-grabbing manouvering about ethnic groups, photo calls with Martin Luter King's son I mean COME ON (Boris may be a Tory dullard but at least he hasn't sunk that low, not to my knowledge). And inviting that cleric, no small matter the man was the antithesis of everything decent in our society, still he got a warm handshake from London's mayor and probably a few fine cigars from Ken's old mate Hugo, paid for by London's poor.

On the last point, he was talking with pal Hugo to get cheap oil from Venezuela for London buses: allowing for cheaper fares for those on income support (quite enabling, really). The other points: well, if those are a list his most immoral dealings, he's doing OK in my book; they're not really the depths you're painting them as.

Regarding what he's done for "London's poor" (and the rest), I guess better air quality, less traffic congestion, free public transport for children & pensioners and cutting crime, will do for now.

[simondykes]

But as I said, I want to see London hit by an asteroid. I want to see an utter tool elected so he can fuck London up. And if I had to choose between tools, i'd choose Boris over Livingstone because he is less personally offensive to me, and a damn site more amusing.

I'm kind of curious as to what London has ever done to you for you to hate it that much.I've been to quite a few towns I don't like,but my general policy of 'not living there' and 'letting people who want to live there carry on living there and not really thinking about it ever again' has meant that I don't go around wishing that large amounts of people who live somewhere I don't like will die.
Or maybe I've misread the whole thing?

[biggytitbo]

I'm kind of curious as to what London has ever done to you for you to hate it that much.I've been to quite a few towns I don't like,but my general policy of 'not living there' and 'letting people who want to live there carry on living there and not really thinking about it ever again' has meant that I don't go around wishing that large amounts of people who live somewhere I don't like will die.
Or maybe I've misread the whole thing?

It's not the people so much as the place. London is terribly damaging to both the UK and the world. It's the centre of UK politics, which means its the centre of the criminal enterprise that is the UK state. It's the centre of both UK and world banking which means it defrauds both the British people and people throughout the world of billions of pounds ever year. It's the centre of one of the most destructive and evil empires in human history so if a asteroid hit it and wiped it out for good it'd be a net benefit to humanity. It'd wipe out a tiny fraction of the world's population to the benefit of as much greater amount of people. So good riddance. Ditto America.

[buttgammon]

But there always will be a capital or a centre. If it wasn't London, somewhere else would be the centre of those things.

Some bad things take place in London or are based in London but it is the fault of these 'bad things', not the fault of London as a city.

[its not cool to be weird]

Well, disassociating myself from Biggy at this point (being a Londoner an all):

The point is, Johnson will be interfering in the same amount of peoples' lives, only making them worse. Have you got the faintest idea what his policies and views actually are, or did you just hear "Libertarian" and then immediately stop paying attention?
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23433540-details/I+didn't+mean+to+be+racist+,+claims+Boris/article.do

Cheers Famous, though I'm more interested in evidence of Ken helping the poor of London. I think Johnson's lack of interest will be a boon but really I just want to be rid of Ken. Like I despise Cameron but I just want to be rid of NuLab. If Boris really said the stuff in the intro of that article I'm surprised, but its really a bit much, I'm not sure how exactly you could defend that.

As a former alcoholic, I think it's quite important that the country is governed by non-alchoholics.  When I was properly hungover I used to cry when watching all the sad stories on Neighbours, I was that mentally fucked from the booze.  You can't run a country like that.

Yeah exactly, the question is, is Ken actually an alcoholic? I suspect not, he's just a tool.

Well call me a happy sucker, if it makes you feel better.

As you like, Ken's done nothing that really offends me directly so I'll be materially content if he wins anyway, except for transport costs of which...

I wouldn't think of doing so. That's your opinion, let's see some evidence.

Well, his persona is that of the working man's friend, and my evidence is really the lack of evidence that he's done anything for the working man, of which...

So far I've found evidence for 425 residents. In an area undergoing an overall regeneration programme which includes the building of more homes than appear to be going. Regarding the impact of the 2012 Olympics: there appears to be wide usage of existing spaces and facilities around London to minimise the need for new structures.

Well, most of my evidence is from Private Eye, but it sounds like your evidence is from gvt sources so I'm sticking with mine. I'm surprised the figure turfed out for the Olympics is so low but there have been plenty more evicted during the rest of the docklands gentrification programme and other such schemes. Their compensation isn't usually much to speak of. They've avoided using existing buildings where possible and concentrated on fulfilling the Olympic committee's absurd demands for new complexes with ridiculous unneccessary requirements. A lot of which will simply be useless after the games are done. I mean seriously, if they were using existing buildings how on earth could it cost twelve billion?

Who knows?

Well Ken does. He knew, don't be coy.

On the last point, he was talking with pal Hugo to get cheap oil from Venezuela for London buses: allowing for cheaper fares for those on income support (quite enabling, really). The other points: well, if those are a list his most immoral dealings, he's doing OK in my book; they're not really the depths you're painting them as.

Regarding what he's done for "London's poor" (and the rest), I guess better air quality, less traffic congestion, free public transport for children & pensioners and cutting crime, will do for now.

Well I wouldn't have a problem with his buying oil from Chavez if he didn't try and portray it as some kind of moral alliance. Its really his posturing I'm criticising here, his record of action could be much worse.
Those on income support now have cheaper fares you say, I wouldn't know, like most of the people of London I've seen fares more than double over the last three years with absolutely no improvement of service to show for it.

Warmly welcoming al-Qaradawi was not a minor moral failing it was disturbing. Al-Q is a big fan of stoning homosexuals incidently.

He's been in power a long time. I'm not convinced crime has fallen given the debonair way Labour are known to treat statistics (targets, targets), there are certainly no more police around. Transport is no better, though for over a year we've had to cope with half the tube being down for engineering works every weekend whilst fares soar. All in all I'm just not convinced its enough for the length of time he's been in. Do you really think they'll do sa you say?

As for congestion I don't know, when I came to London the charge was already in place. I'm not sure quite how the city could get any more congested than it is now, I don't think the charge means a great deal to the kind of people who drove into central London anyway. All in all though I don't know, maybe its better, it can't be all bad news after all.

Ultimately I don't actually, after all that, want to come over as completely negative. But in the end I really think its time Ken Livingstone retired somewhere quiet to count his money, and maybe this Mayor of LondON stuff could be reined in a touch with someone who is really not that fussed about it all.

-EDIT

But there always will be a capital or a centre. If it wasn't London, somewhere else would be the centre of those things.

Some bad things take place in London or are based in London but it is the fault of these 'bad things', not the fault of London as a city.

Just ignore BTB, he's just trying to get reaction.

[buttgammon]

I did actually restrain myself with that, I almost didn't post it anyway. But I was so preposterous I couldn't leave it alone.

[its not cool to be weird]

The boy's just stirring. I can't believe I wrote such a long post. Sorry.

[Pylon Man]

It'd wipe out a tiny fraction of the world's population to the benefit of as much greater amount of people. So good riddance. Ditto America.

Jesus Christ. That's the logic of Islamists.

[shiftwork2]

It's the centre of one of the most destructive and evil empires in human history

Let's leave Woolworths out of this.

so if a asteroid hit it and wiped it out for good it'd be a net benefit to humanity. It'd wipe out a tiny fraction of the world's population to the benefit of as much greater amount of people. So good riddance. Ditto America.

I'm going to assume that you live in the UK and that you are older than 12.  If I'm correct and you really hate it as much as your rant suggests, please leave as soon as possible.  Nothing is more tedious than people who hate where they live / work / play crown green bowls and yet stay, boring everybody to fucking tears.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

As a former alcoholic, I think it's quite important that the country is governed by non-alchoholics.  When I was properly hungover I used to cry when watching all the sad stories on Neighbours, I was that mentally fucked from the booze.  You can't run a country like that.

I'm just picturing Boris Yeltsin blubbering over the Russian equivalent.

Comrades, everybody needs good Comraaaaaades, with a little undergovernance...you can find the perfect plaaaaaan!

[biggytitbo]

Let's leave Woolworths out of this.
I'm going to assume that you live in the UK and that you are older than 12.  If I'm correct and you really hate it as much as your rant suggests, please leave as soon as possible.  Nothing is more tedious than people who hate where they live / work / play crown green bowls and yet stay, boring everybody to fucking tears.

I'll leave right now then! I do want out of the UK - a country ruled by fear, suspicion and paranoia. I've had enough of it.  But not all of us have the resources or the circumstances to just flounce off to another country at the drop of a hat. I'm presuming you're older than 12 so you'll know that?

And I apologise to those London dwellers, I don't really want London destroyed by an asteroid, that's just sick. A tsunami will do.

[Suttonpubcrawl]

By the way verbwhores, I am pretty drunk right now. I believe it's left over alcohol from last night! I certainly haven't had anything to drink since waking up. I'm a proper little Red Ken/Charles Kennedy.

If Boris Johnson wins I might have to kill myself. I can't not live in London, but I also can't live in London if Boris is mayor, so I won't be able to live at all. I'm making a note of all the posters who say anything in support of Boris in this thread and I will now never trust anything you say ever again, because your views are clearly wrongheaded. My only hope is that the people who think Boris is lolrandom won't actually bother to go and vote for him, because much as they think he's funny they don't really care enough about politics to go to a polling station and cast a vote. With any luck it'll be like those campaigns to get some 'funny' track to number one by getting everyone to buy it at the same time on itunes. They always fail.

You forgot to add such things as wars, most of the land owned by <1% of people, the banking system and the multi generational shafting of the poor to the list of wonderous things politicians have gifted us, because we all got on our knees and begged them to totally fuck us over didn't we?

It never ceases to amaze me how you can be so fucking stupid about this stuff. How can you complain about wealth being concentrated in the hands of a tiny number of people and then blame it on politicians and say a totally free market is the solution? How can anyone be so fucking stupid?