The CaB Deliberately Childless Club!

[Rev]

Reactionary?  Oh yeah.

But I'll be 32 this year, and I'm at the point in my life where most of my friends are either married, getting married, having children, or have already had children*.  I have a very nice girlfriend who - I think - would be willing to accept my foul seed in order to bring Revspawn in to the world.  But the world doesn't want that, and more importantly, I don't want that.

Yet I feel that I'm doing something completely wrong by not wanting children.  It feels like I'm the last guy at the party, after everyone's left, waving a lukewarm can of Skol and shouting 'come on, we can keep it going!'  You must have children in order to be a grown-up, right?  Job, house, kids, right?  Is that all this desire to remain childless is?  Just an attempt to cling onto youth that is already long gone?

I'm not asking you lot for answers to these questions, of course.  But what I am asking is if anyone feels this way about the idea of being a parent.

* no, leave it

[Danger Man]

I've been married a long time and one of the reasons it's been such a long and successful* marriage is that both myself and Danger Woman hate the thought of having kids. I've only just recently stolen a line from The Onion website and tell people that 'Me and my wife can't conceive of children".

Some pros and cons of being childless by choice

Pros: More chance of being wealthy. Can live a student lifestyle forever. Anyone who starts any 'carbon footprint' shite can be stopped dead in their tracks. Less things to worry about generally.

Cons: Life is a bit like that movie 'About a Boy'. Can live a student lifestyle forever. Have to have gay friends if you ever want to socialise and not have to talk about schools. Your mummified corpse will make page 4 of the local paper.

Oh...and could all the people who say that having kids 'Is the most wonderful thing possible' and who later call me 'selfish for not having any' please explain the slight contradiction in their argument? Thanks.   


(*actually it's been like The Battle of Stalingrad in slow motion, but we are talking quantity here, not quality)

[Morrissey Gran]

Ah, you had my sympathy when I thought the thread title said 'Desperately'.

I suppose you're to be envied for not wanting to procreate though, it's been a deep-seated instinct within me since I was a baby myself – and there's no guarantee it'll ever happen. So perhaps I'd better stop shagging around and settle on one vehicle for my spawn before the Nicotine kills off my last few decent swimmers.

[Oscar]

Yes! (that's yes to Rev, I am slooooooow at posting)
Sometimes I get the feeling I'm doing it all wrong for the same kind of reasons you state - Am I really a grown up? Will I regret this when I'm older? Then I think about what it would be like to actually have kids, what kind of parent I'd be and how some people feel about their lives now they've have kids.

I think that having children and raising them well is one of the most important jobs a person, or couple of people, can do, but raising children badly, selfishly, or cruelly and constantly regretting that you didn't do a thousand other things with your life and taking that bitterness out on the child is a truly terrible thing to do and I've known a few people do that.

I lived with a single mother and child for five months a few years ago and that made it all very clear to me - I loved the child and enjoyed playing with her, but after a few hours I would feel bored and irritated (this is no criticism of the little girl, she was two and liked constant repetition as is completely normal) I never showed that to her, but a lifetime of feeling like that, even a year of feeling like that, would make me a very unpleasant person indeed. Kids should feel they are extremely important, fascinating and delightful - I know for certain I couldn't make a child feel like that day in day out, year in year out.

On the selfish side (what? even more selfish? although Danger Man is right, parents have kids because they want them, that is also selfish) there are many things I want to do with my life and that involves having time, freedom; the idea of losing that is horrific to me.

Until quite recently I started to suspect I was doing it all wrong, that I should have a child, a mortgage, a car; then everything turned upside down and I got a chance to think about it anew and realised that those things aren't what I want, if I had them I wouldn't know what to do with them, I certainly wouldn't be happy with them.

Plus, there are plenty of people having kids and I hope that's going well for them, the kid-having angle is pretty much covered, so I'm going to stick to doing something else and I hope that keeps going well for me.

[chumfatty]

Hurrah for Dinkies*. I totally agree with Rev and Oscar here. Me and Mrs Chumfatty are not married, don't want to be and the very thought of having children scares the living shit out of us both. I think it would be wrong to bring a child into the world just because society dictates, that would be selfish and we openly admit that we enjoy our freedom too much to have it ruined by kids, which is also selfish but better than begrudgingly bringing up a sprogg.

Yet, I also feel slightly bad about it, because I have friends that are now getting married, ex-girlfriends who now have kids and my younger sister now has one!(no pressure to produce a granchild then ;) ). I'm 33 now as is Mrs C, so if we are to  ever spawn it needs to be at most in the next 10 years, at the moment I cannot see that happening.



*Dual Income No Kids

[mitzidog]

I had always sort of bumbled along assuming that I'd have to look after some kids, probably mine, at some point and it's a great relief to find after almost 40 years, that this is not the case.

I'm getting married this July and the thing which finally persuaded me to ask was the definite way in which my intended almost cried with relief when I told her I wasn't a fan of the child.

I'm on sort of OK money, nothing spectacular, and the same for  (almost) Mrs Mitzidog, but without even the potential for the drain on resources that a child would bring we have managed to become homeowners, which would be out of the question with the additional expense of more mouths to feed.

I also remember the semi joke about a mother's relationship with a child and husband "the child is a blood relative, you're just some guy she met in a bar". I don't want to share her.

The clincher is that neither of us like children - they're noisy and smelly and everything seems to be geared towards them when they make no useful contribution to society.

You'll note they have kids free at Disneyland, but don't have adults only day for those who just want a go on Space Mountain.

Children are our future, but so is the sun turning into a red giant and engulfing the earth and you won't find many waxing lyrical about that.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I've got real mixed emotions about the prospect of children. Ms. CG seems to want them about 75% of the time, whereas I can countenance about 25% of the time.  I keep hoping that, with time, the paternal instinct will kick in, but there's not much sign of it yet. 

One presumes that when I'm cradling a mewling babe it'll arrive - but what if it doesn't?

Plus, finance-wise, being a writer by trade who's forced into contracting in the finance sector more-or-less against his will, I'm not in the best vocational place to start begetting progeny left, right and centre.

Christ, it's a conundrum.  Here's hoping that the 25% of the time my significant other recoils at the thought of being a mother gradually increases, while my tolerance for the idea dwindles to zero.

Or perhaps not.  If only Jonathan McCalmont, the founder of Kidding Aside (The British Childfree Association) was here to advise me!!

[Looknorth]

Life seems a lot cruisier without them and I'm all for an easy ride. I've worked with young children in the past and that has put me off having them by at least 5 years each time. I helped to bring up my younger brother too so I feel I've done it by proxy and I have no desire yet to repeat this. However I would love to see Mr LN as a father, he'd be great and our home would make a great refuge for a child.

Ooh, I don't know. I'd like about 10 kids or none at all, some kind of nuthouse at bed time. Not sure Mr LN would be up for that though and he's the boss.

[its not cool to be weird]

Have 'em late in life. Maximum freedom, plus hopefully (if you've lived a life of sufficient excess) you'll be dead before they reach their teens and all that shit.

[Ginyard]

For any doubters, I'll chime in and point out that I never wanted them in the slightest. I liked travelling and my own independance and the day my wife told me she was pregnant I had a cockail of massive fear and depression in my stomach. I can vividly recall the sinking feeling I had when she told me and I didn't say anything to her, I just kept washing the car as if nothing had been said. All the evenings out with mates, the holidays and general pissing about when we wanted....doomed!. But within 4 days, to my huge suprise, I began to accept the idea and after a couple of weeks I started to feel very excited. Unfortunately, it was an ectopic pregnancy which I realised left my wife feeling sad as she had to have one of her fallopian tubes removed. After her recovery, we tried again and my son was the result.

We were only 29 when he was born, which I think is pretty young, and compromises had to be made. We had to move away from the comfy-ish lifestyle we had in Radlett and moved out to where we are now. My wife gave up work so I was left to try and match what she'd lost. Basically, it is a strain in some areas but I wouldn't change having my two for all the tea in Walton-upon-Thames and its not nearly as constricting as I'd imagined. I'm fucking off to Slovakia to see a mate for a week on the 17th without them, so its still possible to wangle time out.

[23 Daves]

I don't want any children.  Ever.  I've said this before on here.  I have a complete and total mental block with them.  I don't understand them, I find them deeply confusing.  The way they stare at you as if you're some superior alien creature who is going to say something of supreme significance any second, that's frightening.  Because I'm not.  And I won't.  I think if I were an infant school teacher and had a class of 30 of them staring at me like that, I'd probably scream.  Go on, post a Nemi cartoon saying the same thing in reply as some comment on my attitude.  Go on.  I won't care anyway.

Odd, eccentric children I can sometimes just about handle, but I don't think I'd like to have one myself, because they always seem to get beaten up at school on a daily basis.  It wouldn't be good for the stress levels.  I've heard it said a hundred times that children are "more likely to embrace unusual things" than adults, but I happen to think that's complete bollocks.  The overwhelming majority of children are total conformists.  They're terrified of saying anything that might be perceived as wrong in case they get ridiculed by their peer group.  People learn to let go a bit more as they become adults (before having all their imagination whacked out of them again by the time they're in their forties, of course). 

I don't understand why people would feel guilty for not having kids, either.  The bastards who live downstairs from me who have had four who are selfish, idiotic twats with no respect for anyone - let them feel like shit, not me.  I know I'm pretty clueless when it comes to this sort of thing, and therefore I'm staying out of the race.  They, on the other hand, knew they couldn't be bothered to do the job properly and went ahead and spat out loads.  That strikes me as selfish and irresponsible.  There are more than enough new human beings popping into the world for us to be busy for some time yet.  Nobody needs my slightly rubbish and warped contribution.

It's not for everyone, basically.  And I think we should be thankful that some people choose to remain childless.

[Captain Crunch]

For girls at least, growing up there is this tacit expectation that you will meet someone, get married, have kids, the whole deal.  I think it takes a while to look beyond that and realise you really don't HAVE to and can do whatever you want, whenever you want.  That and working out exactly what it is you want to do in the first place is what growing up is all about.

Personally, I plan never to get married or have children and I'm happier as a result of that decision.  Any plans I make or goals I set are mine, I'm not tied to some babbling dribbling parasite, be it husband or baby.

The only minor irritation is when friends and / or family adopt that pompous 'tick tick tick' routine and imply you're just killing time before that magical biological alarm clock goes off and you start crying in Mothercare.  If that were the case I would hardly be working so hard would I?  I'd be languishing on the sofa in front of ITV3 all day eating crispy pancakes.  Well, more than I do now anyway.

[Danger Man]

"we don't inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from other people's children"

Great, isn't it? It's like playing roulette with the casino's money.

[Lfbarfe]

I've got real mixed emotions about the prospect of children. Ms. CG seems to want them about 75% of the time, whereas I can countenance about 25% of the time.

If she's on 75% now, it will increase to 100%, and, when that happens, your feelings don't even figure. It's up the duff or nowt.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Indeed, I've seen many a sane woman turn in to a screaming child grabbing banshee once they hit their early thirties and their biological clock really kicks in.

I'm glad it doesn't for all of the female of the species because I still hope to find one who wishes to remain childless. I do like children and am so flattered that my friends have asked me to be guidefather* to their oldest, but more than a couple of hours with them and I'm struggling. Actually, that's not quite true, I can last a couple of days or so but any longer and I'm crying out for some peace and quiet and time to myself, something which no longer for exists for all the friends of mine who have become parents.

There are positives, I know, but the negatives far outweigh them for me, and I think the biggest deal breaker is that after everything you go through during their childhood, as much as you might one day dream of being proud of your offspring, there's also a good chance they'll turn out to be all a bit shite.


*The humanist version of Godfather apparently.

[shiftwork2]

Indeed, I've seen many a sane woman turn in to a screaming child grabbing banshee once they hit their early thirties and their biological clock really kicks in.

Two of my friends are married to women who harangued them for offspring (an ultimatum in one case) only to warn everyone off soon after the kid arrived.  Their views have moderated only slightly since then.  The sacrifice and responsibility seem so great that I don't think any couple would ever take the plunge if the decision was 100% rational and non-hormonal.  That makes me sound like I have ice water for blood...not true, I like kids and have a lovely little Godson (Guideson?)

[rudi]

I've come round to quite fancying having kids, but I'd really want to avoid the first two years if possible. The non-communicative screaming, shitting and puking bits are, I'm informed, made up for with the sheer "cuteness" and helplessness, but I've never experienced the first and actively dislike the second so I'm in a bit of a bind really.

Two years, that's all I ask; does that make me a monster? (Yes, obviously, and selfish to boot).

[shiftwork2]

I've come round to quite fancying having kids, but I'd really want to avoid the first two years if possible. The non-communicative screaming, shitting and puking bits are, I'm informed, made up for with the sheer "cuteness" and helplessness, but I've never experienced the first and actively dislike the second so I'm in a bit of a bind really.

Two years, that's all I ask; does that make me a monster? (Yes, obviously, and selfish to boot).

I'd definitely be up for a bit of Victorian upper class parenting.  Get Nanny to bring the smalls down for half an hour before bedtime while you smoke your pipe.

[Mindbear]

I get confused, I do want kids, very much, but I fear it because I have literally no maternal feelings and when babies cry near me I get highly irritable. I have nothing to say to kids and don't know how to deal with them and I feel like I'm just waiting for those feelings to arrive. All the friends I knew that have had kids in their twenties i've lost touch with, through my own doing really, it's like their lives have ended the second they gave birth. One of my oldest friends, she just got married and I keep getting panicked the second she talks about having a child, because I can't bear the thought of it.

There was a time in my twenties when I was considering having kids, but I thank fuck that I didn't, my god, I don't want to be like most of the people I know that have had kids in their twenties and felt like they've lost out on having a life. I met this girl when we were moving and she was all aghast at me and my other halfs lifestyle, saying she wished she could do the same. I assumed she was about 32, but it turned out she was 27 and had had children because her other half was alot older and needed to have children. I'd hate to ever feel like that, to be looking around and thinking 'I wish I had your life instead of children'. My mum didn't have me till quite late, but I don't have the choice because I have this thing that will make it impossible to conceive past 32.

It confuses me. Maybe I'm not meant to have children. I really want them, but I don't feel like I want to have a baby. How on earth would that work!?

[Danger Man]

I have this thing that will make it impossible to conceive past 32.

There's a snappy comeback to this line...and thank goodness I can't think of it.

[Looknorth]

Children make me happy but I will bend over backwards to avoid responsibility. Like Mindbear my friends who have children I tend to not really stay in touch with, or very seldomly.

Except for my best friend I see her every week and she has the most beautiful baby boy in the world. He makes me glad to be alive.

The thought of doing the school run for the next 10 years reminds me not to be rash though.

[Ginyard]

I get confused, I do want kids, very much, but I fear it because I have literally no maternal feelings and when babies cry near me I get highly irritable. I have nothing to say to kids and don't know how to deal with them

Christ, I still feel like that and Ive got two. Its very different with your own, you know.

I don't know how old you are but hopefully you've got a bit of time on your side as its a big decision. But if you have some self-imploding womb or ovary to outer-space migration condition then you don't have the benefit of procrastination to the same degree as most women. You need to start chatting to your other half and decide wether its a lifetime of just you and him and total freedom or a family.

M Proops

[CaledonianGonzo]

If she's on 75% now, it will increase to 100%, and, when that happens, your feelings don't even figure. It's up the duff or nowt.

Indeed, I can see myself having to bite a baby-shaped bullet at some point in the next 2 or 3 years.  If only to muffle the ticking of her biological clock with a metaphorical pillow..

Never mind, though.  I'm sure there are a positives (like having someone to discover my mummified corpse) - I just need to give myself a couple of years to get acclimatised to the idea.

I'll make a great father:

<searches for, but fails to find, a picture of 'Victorian Dad'>

[Mindbear]

Christ, I still feel like that and Ive got two. Its very different with your own, you know.

I don't know how old you are but hopefully you've got a bit of time on your side as its a big decision. But if you have some self-imploding womb or ovary to outer-space migration condition then you don't have the benefit of procrastination to the same degree as most women. You need to start chatting to your other half and decide wether its a lifetime of just you and him and total freedom or a family.

M Proops

I'm 28, 29 in a few weeks, and we don't even feel old enough to be married, let alone have children. My womb won't explode, I have endometriosis which is where your womb tissue starts growing all over your body and causes all sorts of havoc. I know I won't be ready in three years, we're both in debt, I haven't got a proper career really, but on the other hand we know we want kids. Maybe I'll feel differently in a couple of years.

I'm really glad you've said you feel different with your own children though, I was worried I'd be sitting there looking at this crying child going 'can someone take this loud thing away please?'

[Ginyard]

I'm 28, 29 in a few weeks, and we don't even feel old enough to be married, let alone have children. My womb won't explode, I have endometriosis which is where your womb tissue starts growing all over your body and causes all sorts of havoc. I know I won't be ready in three years, we're both in debt, I haven't got a proper career really, but on the other hand we know we want kids. Maybe I'll feel differently in a couple of years.

Sorry to hear about your condition. You can't let things like debt and 'being ready' (not in the mental sense) get in the way otherwise you're waiting forever. There's that whole mentality about making sure you've got everything all set-up and nice fat trust fund for the kids in-place and its not necessary. You still save and work regardless, the kids just fit in with whatever's happening. A mate of mine lost his job the month his kid was born. They had to sell their house, he had trouble getting another decent job but he didn't seem so worried once he realised that it was all going to pan out somehow. And it does, whatever difficulty arises. You have the children and somehow it just works anyway.

[mothman]

. . . I have this thing that will make it impossible to conceive past 32.

"Oi! Mindbear! Last day! Carousel begins!"

Sorry. Couldn't resist though.

I don't remember feeling one way or the other about children. I guess I just assumed I might, someday. In all honesty the possibility seemed rather remote and abstract given my varying luck with relationships, I might as well have internally-debated whether or not to sprout wings and fly. My wife was adamant she never wanted children, until she met me. We're aware of how much our lives have changed as a result, and I do feel nostralgic for our old life, but that's done with now, we have our daughter and wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm not saying anyone should have children if they don't want to. Certainly there are plenty of people who have children who probably shouldn't! But I predict, some of you will change your tune. It's inevitable. Some of you will also have your little accidents. And this thread will remain forever as evidence of your epic fail!

[23 Daves]

What I find confusing is that my child-owning friends are always saying to me "Oh but you must, it's essential, you'll love it, and anyway, you'd be a great father!"

Of course, when the subject of child rearing comes up in conversation on separate occasions and I start going on about my beliefs on how children should be raised, and how the problem is that they're brought up to be too individualistic and that they're unaware of authority and boundaries, they glare at me and begin ranting about how draconian, right wing and unnecessary my views are, and how they would damage children.

It was exactly the same on this forum, actually, when we had more parents posting here.  I was somebody who should be a father one minute, then somebody who obviously had no understanding of how children should be handled and raised the next.

They need to make up their minds, really.  Inconsistency isn't going to help me along.

A mate of mine lost his job the month his kid was born.

That happened to a friend of mine as well.  It was an unplanned pregnancy and his firm went bankrupt before the little sprog had even waved its hello to the world.  He copes fine now, but the first couple of years were extremely scary financially.  He was freelancing and temping for the first year and a half which made planning things extremely difficult. 

That said, he has actually become one of my few parent-friends who still maintains a social life and is able to talk about topics of conversation other than children, so perhaps unplanned pregnancies are brilliant from that point of view.  I think some people get it into their heads that they're going to become parents and begin adopting a certain lifestyle and attitude before the sperm has even met the egg - with an unplanned kid, there's more of an element of "Well sod this, I can still make time to do what I want with my life as well, because this child really wasn't on my list of things to do".  It's not quite as harsh as that maybe, but it does seem to frequently be the case.

[mitzidog]

I know I'm approaching the big 4-0 at masive speed (June if you must know) but I've always thought that boundaries were a good thing for kids.

You can see the results of the namby-pambying child-worshiping baby-boomers in the insolent invicibility of teenagers today, where murdering scum "cannot be named for legal reasons" and ASBOs replace any real sense of societal outrage at the sort of neighbourhood-terrorising little shits that pass for kids in certain places.

I live within a two mile radius of three of the recent killings of teenagers by teenagers, and although I may not be relaxing in my gold swimming pool snorting coke of naked hookers (wouldn't you like to just ONCE?) I think I've got too much to live for to be stabbed to death by cunts just for raising an eyebrow at them for being utter cunts.

[Lfbarfe]

I know I won't be ready in three years, we're both in debt, I haven't got a proper career really, but on the other hand we know we want kids. Maybe I'll feel differently in a couple of years.

If you know you want kids, and the clock is ticking, do it now and sort out the logistics later. We nearly left it too late.

[SetToStun]

I do like children and am so flattered that my friends have asked me to be guidefather* to their oldest.


*The humanist version of Godfather apparently.

Guidefather? Ha ha! What happens when someone gets in your way? Do you make them an offer to which they should give all due consideration?