Socialist Worker - any good?

[Mary Hinge]

"It flies, it flies."

[Lord Summerisle]

What kind of anarchist?

Anarcho-Syndicalism

[Baxter]

Anarcho-Syndicalism

[btb]FUCK THAT SHIT! Anarcho-capitalism![/btb]

[NoSleep]

[btb]FUCK THAT SHIT! Anarcho-capitalism![/btb]

No!!! Anarcho-primitivism!!!

[Baxter]

^^YOU FUCKING COCK-FACED TWAT-BADGER!

There will be one form of anarchism practised and It will be Anarcho-capitalism, Rigidly enforced by a central authority.

[SetToStun]

There will be one form of anarchism practised and It will be poetry-based Anarcho-collectivism, Rigidly enforced by Rik.

Fixed.

[biggytitbo]

Since the dawn of time, when things have got difficult, people have dumped on those below them and fought those to their left and right. Look up.

The great mistake about anarchism is that its somehow about 'chaos'. It isn't. It really just means decentralisation.

[Baxter]

^^Who's making that 'great mistake'?

[biggytitbo]

^^Who's making that 'great mistake'?

Those who think anarchy is about the streets running with blood and lunatics running about anbd everything going to shit. The fact is, under anarchism, most of the atrocities of the world would never have happened. The Nazi holocaust and the even greater death-tolls Soviet Russia, the great famine in China etc. Left or right is irrelevant, centralising government of any kind is bad. That's why socialist worker and any 'left/right' publication is so utterly ridiculous and pointless. Stop fighting each other, it's the biggest distraction of all time.

[ziggy starbucks]

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Read Berkman, Bakunin and Malatesta.

[NoSleep]

Not far enough: Read John Zerzan.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Biggy mate, my first year politics class destroyed anarchism in about 5 minutes, especially within the context of an urbanized, industrialised society and we're hardly the sharpest knives in the education system.

[biggytitbo]

Biggy mate, my first year politics class destroyed anarchism in about 5 minutes, especially within the context of an urbanized, industrialised society and we're hardly the sharpest knives in the education system.

Did it? Bugger. Alright, I'll vote labour next electsch - I can't believe I've been so daft!

[dr beat]

Biggy mate, my first year politics class destroyed anarchism in about 5 minutes, especially within the context of an urbanized, industrialised society and we're hardly the sharpest knives in the education system.

Oh right, well I hope you're all running in the next election as I suppose I'll have to vote for you then...

[rudi]

I always enjoy the left=bickering cliché, like the right winged parties are all great mates.

I've previously found the writing a little too blinkered (well duhhh) to convince me to subscribe, to be honest, but I really, truly am rapidly running out of news and comment sources to read (and I do love a good read).

The Observer's been shit since the opening tickles of Gulf War II, the Telegraph has been backsliding into its old reactionary > journalism ways, The Guardian suffers from quantity over quality and the rest of the nationals can bite my bell. I still enjoy The Spectator (and, yes, Private Eye), for my sins.

This thread is a great idea actually; can we open it into a general discussion on where to find decent journalism or should I take it to another thread?

[samadriel]

Just look at the bastard.  An 18th-century Christopher Hitchens.

"...AND IT'LL ALL SORT ITSELF OUT!"

[Neville Chamberlain]

Private Eye and Class War - that's all Neville needs!

[Famous Mortimer]

Left or right is irrelevant

People have died because of those labels. Stop spouting the same old tired Alex Jones-fellating libertarian crap and say what you mean, which is "left or right is irrelevant to me". It's so boring hearing you say the exact same thing in every thread about politics - you aren't interested in debate, you aren't interested in hearing other peoples' point of view, you just want the platfiorm to shout the same shit, time and time again.

Out of interest, Famous, since you're the man in the know, what sort of stories does the Socialist Worker cover? Is there much investigative journalism or is it mainly comment?

Both. We've got journalists out in the Middle East, and we've got other members of the International Socialist movement in other countries writing about the situation there and topics the mainstream won't touch. As well as members in Britain inside various trade unions and movements talking about what's going on inside them. Lots of historical stuff too, as well as comment from leading socialists, both inside and outside the party. Our monthly magazine last month had a large interview with Iain Banks and a big piece from one of the striking US writers.

[Mary Hinge]

Our monthly magazine last month had a large interview with Iain Banks

If it had been Iain M.Banks I'd have bought it. You should have interviewed him, he's got some really interesting views on how societies could function.

and a big piece from one of the striking US writers.

He wrote a piece? SCCCCCAAAAAAAABBBBBBB!!!

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Biggy mate, my first year politics class destroyed anarchism in about 5 minutes, especially within the context of an urbanized, industrialised society and we're hardly the sharpest knives in the education system.

Did you do the reading?

[Backstage With Slowdive]

If you want anti-Iraq War stuff, you'll find a lot of it in www.amconmag.com. Of course, you'll also get a shedload of Buchananite social conservative waffle as well. All of which is rubbish, since "American conservative" is an oxymoron. The only true conservative position in American politics is to restore British rule.

[sirhenry]

Biggy mate, my first year politics class destroyed anarchism in about 5 minutes, especially within the context of an urbanized, industrialised society and we're hardly the sharpest knives in the education system.

I'm impressed. It took Hitler, Franco and the largest, most modern air force in the world years. Even then there were pockets that lasted over 30 years. And it was the urbanised, industrialised parts that worked hardest against them.

So well done you.

[rupert pupkin]

I'm a socialist and the SWP should be my natural political home. However, I don't agree with the party's policy of "democratic centralism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism), think Alex Callinicos is an upper class twat and consider pretty much every member of the party I've ever come into contact with an objectionable arsehole.

[Sovereign]

I'm a socialist and the SWP should be my natural political home. However, I don't agree with the party's policy of "democratic centralism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism), think Alex Callinicos is an upper class twat and consider pretty much every member of the party I've ever come into contact with an objectionable arsehole.

I'm pretty much in the same situation. The "democratic centralism" shit resembles vanguard Marxism-Leninism far too closely for my liking. And considering they have quite a broad membership, much more members than the BNP or UKIP or any other left-wing group (apart from perhaps the Green Party) they fly completely under the radar.

Although most of the rank and file were sound by me, there also seemed to be a dearth of humour amongst more senior figures. I've never met people who take being a "revolutionary" so seriously before, and yet achieve very little in the field of revolution. Too much piety for my liking.

I'm quite liking the idea, at the moment, of getting young socialists into the labour party, waiting for Gordon Brown to get beaten by the Tories, and then overthrow the new labour movement from within the labour party. I feel a vicious resentment that I've been forced into allying with pricks like the SWP because my true political party, the Labour party, has been hi-jacked and purged of all genuine socialist elements.

[rupert pupkin]

I think the Labour party is lost to any sort of genuine socialism (and probably always has been). Certainly any attempt to drag it too far leftwards after losing to the Tories would be stomped on pretty quickly – it's all about being tough on crime and immigration!

I dunno, it's easy to stand on the sidelines and moan like I'm doing but I'd really love to find a decent socialist party that I could invest time and energy in – that I could actually believe in. I could kid myself that that kind of party already exists but in my experience it doesn't. The left in this country never fails to disappoint and frustrate me.

[Famous Mortimer]

Alex Callinicos is an upper class twat

As long as your political stance is that advanced, I don't know what else to say. What difference does his accent (as it's the only thing you could use to identify him as upper-class) make to his politics?

I'm quite liking the idea, at the moment, of getting young socialists into the labour party, waiting for Gordon Brown to get beaten by the Tories, and then overthrow the new labour movement from within the labour party. I feel a vicious resentment that I've been forced into allying with pricks like the SWP because my true political party, the Labour party, has been hi-jacked and purged of all genuine socialist elements.

Entrism has never, and will never work. Look at Militant, a well-organised group of socialists who tried and failed, miserably, to change the Labour Party from within. Even the Morning Star has started saying the Labour Party is lost to ever being changed that way. Trying to change the Labour Party from within is completely pointless.

there also seemed to be a dearth of humour amongst more senior figures. I've never met people who take being a "revolutionary" so seriously before, and yet achieve very little in the field of revolution. Too much piety for my liking.

Not my experience. And I don't see David Cameron, Gordon Brown, or Nick Clegg cracking jokes either. Why should the leading figures of the SWP be funny anyway?

Thanks for calling me a prick though, Sovereign. If you think democratic centralism is a bad idea, which when it boils down to it means debating something, voting on it, then whether you agree with that particular tactical decision or not getting behind it, but think entrism is a good idea then I'm sad you never bothered having this debate inside an SWP meeting. You're perfectly entitled to hold opinions different to those which have been decided on, and if you'd been to many SWP meetings you'd know that happens all the time. We could be more like the rest of the far left and split over every issue, and fight amongst ourselves rather than fighting as a group for something more important, if you like? There's a reason we're not having this debate about the weekly paper of Workers Power, or the Alliance For Workers Liberty, or the Revolutionary Communist Party, or the Communist Party Of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist).

[thugler]

No. Like socialism itself, it's nonsense. If you require further evidence of this, just look at the history of socialism.

[rupert pupkin]

As long as your political stance is that advanced, I don't know what else to say. What difference does his accent (as it's the only thing you could use to identify him as upper-class) make to his politics?

What I said about Callinicos was fairly tongue in cheek – glad to see it got precisely the reaction I'd hoped for though. That said, I've met him a few times (years and years ago) and find it hard to trust someone like him. He comes across as a cold fish and I doubt he's done a proper day's work in his life. Isn't his mother royalty or something? To me he always came across as a patronising toff who was just slumming it. Maybe you know him better though...

[rupert pupkin]

No. Like socialism itself, it's nonsense. If you require further evidence of this, just look at the history of socialism.

No thanks, I'm rather hoping you're going to enlighten us...