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Where to start with [artist]

Started by alan nagsworth, April 10, 2008, 02:03:21 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Lord of divs

Quote from: simondykes on April 22, 2008, 02:35:31 PM
I was just being cheeky myself,so no offence intended...
I've got a friend who raves about the Melvins,but they've not quite grabbed me from what she's played me of theirs - but I'll ask her and find out what she recommends.

Many thanks.


buttgammon

* buttgammon desperately looks for screengrab picture of Fry and Laurie's 'Call My Bluff' Sketch...

NoSleep

#63
Harking back to the discussion re: Can's earlier albums versus the later ones:-

The earlier ones - Monster Movie, Soundtracks, Tago Mago, Future Days, Limited Edition & Ege Bamyasi were all created from live two track recordings which means there's no opportunity for turning that hihat up or making the guitars less dominating etc - what they played is what you hear. Holger Czukay would then take these two track recordings and edit the parts to be used, sometimes play two recordings together like a DJ might spin two records simultaneously. The end results are markedly different to the later albums that were not only recorded by the standard method of using multitrack tape which can then be mixed to "perfection" later on, but also they extended the line-up: Czukay pulled as the bass player, then left completely, continuing to record in the original way that Can had on his solo albums.
I think rough edges and less detailed control make those earlier records stand out.

boki


Don_Preston

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 22, 2008, 10:15:25 AM
One band that's often got overlooked in history, probably because the trend went more towards the electronic krautrock, is Amon Düül II.


What's your opinion on Amon Düül (I) Nev? They rarely seem to get a look in anywhere.

simondykes

Quote from: NoSleep on April 22, 2008, 04:06:22 PM
Harking back to the discussion re: Can's earlier albums versus the later ones:-

The earlier ones - Monster Movie, Soundtracks, Tago Mago, Future Days, Limited Edition & Ege Bamyasi were all created from live two track recordings which means there's no opportunity for turning that hihat up or making the guitars less dominating etc - what they played is what you hear. Holger Czukay would then take these two track recordings and edit the parts to be used, sometimes play two recordings together like a DJ might spin two records simultaneously. The end results are markedly different to the later albums that were not only recorded by the standard method of using multitrack tape which can then be mixed to "perfection" later on, but also they extended the line-up: Czukay pulled as the bass player, then left completely, continuing to record in the original way that Can had on his solo albums.
I think rough edges and less detailed control make those earlier records stand out.

Oh,I agree that the earlier albums are the best - as you say,everything up until 'Ege Bamyasi' definitely has the edge.'Future Days' is the point where the muso-ishness came in and smoothed it all down,but there are still some great records after that too.A minor Can record is better than most bands 'best' work.

Ciarán

Actually, the "Cannibalism I" compilation isn't a bad place to start with Can. That's where I started. There again I went on to buy everything up as far as "Future Days" and then stopped. So I can't talk much about later Can really.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Don_Preston on April 22, 2008, 07:14:25 PM
What's your opinion on Amon Düül (I) Nev? They rarely seem to get a look in anywhere.

If you're idea of fun is listening to a bunch of hopelessly drug-addled German hippies sitting in a field banging drums aimlessly for 40 mins, then you'd love 'em!

Personally, I'm more into a bunch of hopelessly drug-addled German hippies playing some of the weirdest rock ever committed to record (i.e. Amon Düül II)!

So forget Amon Düül I I'd say, except for sheer curiosity value possibly.

Oh, another krautrock band that's been completely overlooked is Guru Guru. The album UFO is the very definition of "acid rock". Completely loopy!

The album Cottonwoodhill by the Swiss band Brainticket is also worth checking out...!

Lord of divs

Quote from: boki on April 22, 2008, 07:01:19 PM
Piffol, surely? ;)

pif·fle  (pfl)
intr.v. pif·fled, pif·fling, pif·fles
To talk or act feebly or futilely.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: Lord of divs on April 23, 2008, 12:16:44 PM
pif·fle  (pfl)
intr.v. pif·fled, pif·fling, pif·fles
To talk or act feebly or futilely.

No, boki was right. I stand corrected ;-)

(It's a Cardiacs thing)

lipsink

Quote from: The Argus on April 10, 2008, 02:53:36 PM
Yeah, Yo La Tengo are fantastic live.  I saw them at a wonderfully intimate venue called the Sage in Gateshead a couple of years back and they were just brilliant.

I'd say their biggest influences by far are The Velvet Underground and Sonic Youth but I actually prefer to YLT to both those bands.  Best place to start would probably be their magnum opus I Can Hear the Heart Beating As One - listen to it late at night in the dark with a candle on.  Have a bottle of red wine and a spliff ready and you'll be in heaven.

I got that album jsut the other day. I like it but I guess I was expecting more of the fuzzy pop like 'Sugarcube' (which I recognised from seeing the great video a while back). Is there another album in particular that has more of this stuff? 'Shadows' is beautiful too.

simondykes

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 23, 2008, 08:21:17 AM
Oh, another krautrock band that's been completely overlooked is Guru Guru. The album UFO is the very definition of "acid rock". Completely loopy!

The album Cottonwoodhill by the Swiss band Brainticket is also worth checking out...!

I've got 'UFO' but are any other Guru Guru albums worth buying?
'Cottonwoodhill' is amazing,completely mental,well side two (in old money) anyway.

Quote from: Lord of divs on April 22, 2008, 03:29:57 PM
Many thanks.
Right,well the first album she mentioned when I asked her was 'Stoner Witch',followed by 'A Senile Animal' (the latest,I think),'Houdini' and the Dale Crover album from the three 'solo' Melvins albums.She claims that 'A Senile Animal' is her favourite,but that could be her 'record shop manager' side coming out - I've seen her,straight-faced claim that 'In Rainbows' is the best Radiohead album to try and shift a copy.I can't do that.
But her instant reaction was 'Stoner Witch',so go with that,I guess.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: simondykes on April 24, 2008, 12:11:03 AM
I've got 'UFO' but are any other Guru Guru albums worth buying?

I'd say anything up to Känguruh. After that, there's nothing particularly new or original, and some of its downright rubbish. I live in Stuttgart and have done for the past 8 years and they've played here every year and I've always been to see them though!

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 23, 2008, 08:21:17 AM
If you're idea of fun is listening to a bunch of hopelessly drug-addled German hippies sitting in a field banging drums aimlessly for 40 mins, then you'd love 'em!
Word round the campfire was they recorded all their albums in the same marathon day-long session and just cut bits off it to release. Amon Duul 2 were the slightly more professional musical arm of the commune, or community, or whatever it was. They did do a great album called, in German, "God's Cock" ("Phallus Dei").

I'll throw one open to the group. I, personally, am not a fan of David Bowie. I probably never will be. But if you, the hypothetical Bowie fan, were to try and persuade me to get into him, where would you recommend I start?

Neville Chamberlain

#75
Quote from: Famous Mortimer on April 24, 2008, 08:06:10 AM
Word round the campfire was they recorded all their albums in the same marathon day-long session and just cut bits off it to release. Amon Duul 2 were the slightly more professional musical arm of the commune, or community, or whatever it was. They did do a great album called, in German, "God's Cock" ("Phallus Dei").

Phallus Dei is an excellent album. That was Amon Düül II's first release after splitting from the rest of them and does have quite a bit of the feel of Amon Düül with its heavy percussive element, but it's approximately 4,000 times better. If anyone were to ask me to play one song that sums up the spirit of Amon Düül II, I'd play the opening track Canaan.

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on April 24, 2008, 08:06:10 AMI'll throw one open to the group. I, personally, am not a fan of David Bowie. I probably never will be. But if you, the hypothetical Bowie fan, were to try and persuade me to get into him, where would you recommend I start?

You'd probably get about a million different answers on that one. Personally, I'd say every album he released up to Scary Monsters is potentially indispensable (apart from Young Americans, which I've never ever got into). As much as I love Bowie, I reckon all his albums are flawed, but Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust are about as close to perfection as you'll get. Beyond that, I'm a massive fan of The Man Who Sold the World, Aladdin Sane, Diamond Dogs, Station to Station, and Lodger. The most famous of the Berlin-period albums, Low, has never done it for me, although it is undeniably groundbreaking stuff.

Be interested to see what others have got to say. John Self did a bloody fantastic Bowie thread too...

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on April 24, 2008, 08:06:10 AM
I'll throw one open to the group. I, personally, am not a fan of David Bowie. I probably never will be. But if you, the hypothetical Bowie fan, were to try and persuade me to get into him, where would you recommend I start?

A hopelessly populist answer, but if nothing on this tickles your fancy, I cannae help:



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Platinum-Collection-David-Bowie/dp/B000AMUU94/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1209023315&sr=1-7

Disc: 1

1. The Jean Genie
2. Space Oddity
3. Starman
4. Ziggy Stardust
5. John, I'm Only Dancing (Sax Version)
6. Rebel Rebel
7. Let's Spend The Night Together
8. Suffragette City
9. Oh! You Pretty Things
10. Velvet Goldmine
11. Drive In Saturday
12. Diamond Dogs
13. Changes
14. Sorrow
15. The Prettiest Star
16. Life On Mars?
17. Aladdin Sane
18. The Man Who Sold The World
19. Rock 'n' Roll Suicide
20. All The Young Dudes

Disc: 2

1. Sound And Vision
2. Golden Years
3. Fame
4. Young Americans
5. John, I'm Only Dancing (Again)
6. Can You Hear Me
7. Wild Is The Wind
8. Knock On Wood (Live)
9. TVC 15
10. 1984
11. It's Hard To Be A Saint In The City
12. Look Back In Anger
13. The Secret Life Of Arabia
14. DJ
15. Beauty And The Beast
16. Breaking Glass
17. Boys Keep Swinging
18. Heroes

Disc: 3

1. Let's Dance
2. Ashes To Ashes
3. Under Pressure
4. Fashion
5. Modern Love
6. China Girl
7. Scary Monsters
8. Up The Hill Backwards
9. Alabama Song
10. Drowned Girl
11. Cat People
12. This Is Not America
13. Loving The Alien
14. Absolute Beginners
15. When The Wind Blows
16. Blue Jean
17. Day-In Day-Out
18. Time Will Crawl
19. Underground

Disc three is less essential, but all that for £14 can't be sniffed at.  Or you can usually pick up discs one and two for a fiver each in your local FOPP or equivalent...

Neville Chamberlain

^^^

I'd say that's a pretty damned good compilation! Very impressed with the selection for Disc 3 actually. Glad to see the inclusion of Absolute Beginners, which I stand by as being a ruddy marvellous song!

buttgammon

Yes, that tracklisting has pretty much everything you need on it unless you become a huge fan, in which case you should get all his seventies output except maybe Pin Ups.

Famous Mortimer

I shall "buy" a copy at my next available opportunity and give it a proper listen then.

simondykes

If you were coming into Bowie completely cold,I'd say start with 'Hunky Dory' and if you like that,progress through the albums in chronological order.My favourite is a bit obvious - it's my avatar - but I know it's not one that appeals to everybody.
The '69-'74/'74-'79 best ofs are fabulous introductions too (although,again,'Low' is under-represented on the second one.)They've obviously been put together by someone who actually gives a shit,rather than being the obvious record company cash-ins (and there are many of those with Big Dave.)
If they're available with the later one cheap.then yeah,go for that.Just don't buy them from Fopp - I used to work for them,and they're a shower of bastards.

Quote from: Neville Chamberlain on April 24, 2008, 08:02:28 AM
I'd say anything up to Känguruh. After that, there's nothing particularly new or original, and some of its downright rubbish. I live in Stuttgart and have done for the past 8 years and they've played here every year and I've always been to see them though!

Thanks.I kind of got the impression that they kind of slid into generic rock sludge in later years,but when I have the cash,I'll check out some other early stuff.
I keep saying I'm going to move to Germany,but I really must knuckle down and learn more than the handful of phrases that I know in the language....

Don_Preston

My word that Platinum compilation is missing some though! In regards to disc 1, only one song from Space Oddity and man Who Sold the World - for shame!

Neville Chamberlain

And why does Starman rarely get a look-in compilations?!?

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Don_Preston on April 24, 2008, 12:59:39 PM
My word that Platinum compilation is missing some though! In regards to disc 1, only one song from Space Oddity and man Who Sold the World - for shame!

It was released as single disc compilations (as simondykes mentioned,  '69-'74/'74-'79) before being housed in a cardboard slipcase to become the Platinum Collection linked to above.  I'd imagine the limits of the single discs are what lead to some tracks being excluded - but then I'd argue a track like Moonage Daydream is far more worthy of a slot than any of the non-Space Oddity tracks on Space Oddity.  It is just an intro, after all..

For those wanting more Bowie than that in one place......well, I don't think there's a box set (though I may be wrong), and I think it's a pretty fair intro to the Dame for under £15.  My first Bowie comp was Changesbowie - which looks pretty poor in comparison (not even one track from Man Who Sold the World - and no Starman either, Nev (in fact, no Life On Mars?)).

Ignatius_S

Quote from: CaledonianGonzo on April 24, 2008, 01:19:59 PM
....For those wanting more Bowie than that in one place......well, I don't think there's a box set (though I may be wrong), and I think it's a pretty fair intro to the Dame for under £15.  My first Bowie comp was Changesbowie - which looks pretty poor in comparison (not even one track from Man Who Sold the World - and no Starman either, Nev (in fact, no Life On Mars?)).

There's the Sound & Vision box set from a few years back, which was four CDs (I think) - and very nice it was too. Can't remember how different it is to the Platinum Collection, but I've a feeling that the later had some tracks different to t'other one (much to the disgust of some of my friends.)

More recently there was a massive box set, but it was just the newer stuff like Outside.

CaledonianGonzo

Quote from: Ignatius_S on April 24, 2008, 03:47:47 PM
More recently there was a massive box set, but it was just the newer stuff like Outside.

Cheers for the info.  Continuing with the theme of the topic, I probably wouldn't recommend a massive box set of newer stuff like Outside as the ideal Bowie entry point.

buttgammon

No, neither would I. I like Outside and to a lesser extent Reality but they're hardly essentially and aren't as good as stuff like 'The Rise and Fall...' and 'Low' that were made while Bowie was at his peak in the 1970s.

Ignatius_S

Oops, sorry – I meant that as an aside, rather than a derailing tangent.

That said... I'm a little surprised that he's yet to bring a more encompassing compilation, which would include the later work. I think it's a little frustrating that currently have to choose between (or both) new and old for this kind of initiation to his work.

boki

Quote from: Lord of divs on April 23, 2008, 12:16:44 PM
pif·fle  (pfl)
intr.v. pif·fled, pif·fling, pif·fles
To talk or act feebly or futilely.

Now look up the winking bit. ;)



DrJ

This is a great thread.

I don't know much about Krautrock, but Neu 75 is just one of the greatest album's ever, irrespective of genre.

I too was of an age in 1990 to have been introduced to David Bowie by Changesbowie. I went for Hunky Dory next but I think I would recommend Station To Station as the best introduction. No space-alien-hippy-leper-messiah gubbins, just 6 great songs. Typing this I feel a need to listen to Golden Years right now.

For Elvis Costello, going chronologically does make sense although I have always thought the debut My Aim Is True is overrated. When I got into Ec after Spike in 89 I bought King of America and Blood & Chocolate together. Two albums originally released within four months of each other in 1986, but so different in style and tone. It's a good way to introduce yourself to the yin & yang of Costello's talents.