Tory MP defects to UKIP...eurgh

[Hank_Kingsley]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/news/2008/04/22/nukip122.xml

Seems like a pretty despicable chap before factoring a jump to the cuntiest party (after the BNP) in British
politics. He's strongly against gay rights and abortion, as well as obviously being an anti-europe little englander.

But, shit. Even if it's just one MP it's one MP too many.

[Marvin]

He won't survive the local elections then I would imagine.

Thank god, it's ridiculous that an MP can be elected and defect to another party and remain an MP.

[NoSleep]

He won't survive the local elections then I would imagine.

Thank god, it's ridiculous that an MP can be elected and defect to another party and remain an MP.

I think that's wrong, Marvin. You shouldn't vote for a party, but for your representative in Parliament. The political parties don't even clearly demark how any individual may vote on an issue, which I think is how it should be, too.

[boxofslice]

I think that's wrong, Marvin. You shouldn't vote for a party, but for your representative in Parliament.

I agree but I think that the majority who vote don't and see it purely through party lines.

[Marvin]

I agree you vote for an individual but the parties do clearly demark how any individual may vote on an issue, that's what the party whips are for. I agree that shouldn't be the case, but certainly with the big 3 it very much is still.

Personally I do think people should make more thought on the individual they vote for, but if you vote for a Conservative MP, who will be required by the party to take on a lot of their policies so as to be able to stand for them in the first place, if they then defect to UKIP, with a much more extreme party line, it's fair to feel mislead and people deserve a chance to vote again.

As a different example, my mum once voted for a local Lib Dem cadidate who 6 months after the election defected to the Conservatives, her and many others felt quite misled and betrayed by this, for fairly obvious reasons, but had no option to vote again until the next standard election, which seems quite undemocratic.

There's nothing within the current system to stop someone misleading the public about their political leanings in order to gain a seat - if parties like UKIP were clever they could quite easily put forward candidates for the Tories with the secret intention of defecting once elected, which is clearly wrong.

[NoSleep]

I recognize that the whips have control over votes generally, but I meant that there is the possibility for rebellion.

In an ideal world (also, in the world of spin) an MP represents their constituents, and may make a move from one party to another in their interest. I realise this doesn't stand up in the real world, and people do vote for parties, and that MPs that jump ship to another party are generally career opportunists.

If voters were more aware that they should be choosing the right person to represent them in Parliament in the first place it could probably help to change the political map for the better. But we can't even be mustered to do that.

[Hank_Kingsley]

There's nothing within the current system to stop someone misleading the public about their political leanings in order to gain a seat - if parties like UKIP were clever they could quite easily put forward candidates for the Tories with the secret intention of defecting once elected, which is clearly wrong.

That's a great idea. Why stop with just the Tories? You could bring the whole system down with less than a  thousand people!

[hoverdonkey]

They're always called Bob.

[NoSleep]

[George Oscar Bluth II]

What. A. Twat.

Seriously, can't imagine many tears at Tory HQ over his defection.

[Pylon Man]

I remember reading a wiki article about some UKIP MEP (I think). He'd written a book that didn't exactly take a favourable position on the idea that black and white people can live together. And he was due to attend some sort of white seperatist conference in America. I had a look on their website and it was as far as I could say, basically a PC version of the KKK. There were articles playing down the achievements of Rosa Parks and MLK; making out that they were just in it for their own egos. And the subject of the upcoming conference was to the effect of "Why do the authorities keep pushing forward the idea that black and white people should mix?".

I don't know if all UKIP members are like this. I'm not suggesting they are either. But there's probably a wing of the party that is.

[Hank_Kingsley]

The more I've looked into a lot of the so-called 'Libertarian' politicians I've found a disturbing number who actually seem to be White separatists, and in the states Neo-Confederates. Ron Paul has some extremely disturbing bedfellows, David Duke was quite supportive of him IIRC.

UKIP are starting to look to people like Ron Paul as a model for their campaigning, luckily they're far less organized and caught up in a lot of petty infighting. When you look into their policies, though, it is a lot of rather disturbing thinly veiled racist rubbish. They're all for cutting welfare and being anti-government in that sense but then they're pledged to increasing military spending. That's some bullshit right there.

I think it's important to keep an eye on these nutjobs, if they got the support of the Daily Mail we could be in for a world of pain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukip#Minority_members_of_UKIP

Death threats?!

[NoSleep]

The more I've looked into a lot of the so-called 'Libertarian' politicians I've found a disturbing number who actually seem to be White separatists, and in the states Neo-Confederates. Ron Paul has some extremely disturbing bedfellows, David Duke was quite supportive of him IIRC.

Despite his permanent harping on about left/right paradigms, Alex Jones is as right-wing as fuck, and his websites used to link to affiliates with credentials that were nigh on KKK territory. As his profile has risen since 9/11 he has chosen to hide this aspect from public view.

[Hank_Kingsley]

Indeed, and the rabid anti-Catholicism. Though not the homophobia: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2008/041508_donation_ban.htm

How does Richard Linklatter stand the chap?! I find it strange he's friends with Alex Jones AND Douglas Kellner, possibly one of the most left-wing academics in the States...

[Pylon Man]

Here it was: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ashley_Mote&diff=prev&oldid=187127131

Ashley Mote there, who was jailed for housing benefit fraud. It's not just some vandalism either, if you follow the link to the amrem.com website, you can see his name in the list.

The reason I couldn't find it was obviously because one of his supporters removed the offending section from the wiki article.

[Hank_Kingsley]

Eurgh. Look at his horrible racist face: http://www.ashleymote.co.uk/.

Complete and utter crook too by the looks of it.

If anyone needs further proof of UKIP's dubious credentials this is a popular eurosceptic board which they share with the BNP, English Democrats, Libertarian Party UK and a whole host of minor party mentalists:

http://democracyforum.co.uk/

[Pylon Man]

Libertarians? I would have thought they'd be completely against this sort of stuff. They believe completely in the freedom of the individual, so surely sepretism or segregation or whatever you want to call it would be the complete antithesis of all that. UKIP seem to be hardcore conservatives, so apart from agreeing on some economic stuff, I would have thought libertarianism was the polar opposite of UKIPism.

[Hank_Kingsley]

It's a difficult kettle of fish, in the States Thomas Jefferson is cited as a great influence on Libertarianism and also on White Separatism (despite impregnating a slave, he didn't believe Blacks and Whites could live together when emancipation inevitably came).

I think a lot of people are drawn to Libertarianism by relatively noble purposes but there seem to be a large number who seem to invest it with a racialist agenda (attacking welfare/affirmative action etc.)

I remember reading about some chap (embarrassingly the name escapes me) via the Jim Goad forum (another interesting character) who's a 'race realist' and prominent Libertarian in the States. He appears on a lot of talk shows talking about Asian superiority and why Blacks cause crime.

Back to UKIP and we see them adopt 'Libertarian' positions on a lot of issues, the smoking ban, taxation (to a relative extent) gun ownership, drug laws. I suppose these are traditional Conservative stances in a lot of ways (maybe not the drugs).

The press officer of the Libertarian Party UK is a former communications officer for UKIP (Chris Mounsey)
who runs http://devilskitchen.me.uk/ which I believe has wound up people on this board before.
He's a nasty piece of work.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

http://democracyforum.co.uk/

They're talking like it's an achievement, as if they really have got their first MP. Sorry lads, you have to be elected for it to really count.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Thank god, it's ridiculous that an MP can be elected and defect to another party and remain an MP.

A few Tories switched to New Labour before 1997 and didn't seek immediate re-election either (they got shifted to more winnable constituencies as their reward).

[Marvin]

A few Tories switched to New Labour before 1997 and didn't seek immediate re-election either (they got shifted to more winnable constituencies as their reward).

Yeah I know. It happens, there's been a few Lib Dem-Tory swaps and vice versa as well.

[Stringbean Dean]

He won't survive the local elections then I would imagine.

Local elections are for local government, not MPs.  It won't affect him until the general election.

Cunt though....

[Marvin]

God I know that, must have been having a stupid day.

[Pinball]

"Well I voted Cunt. I like the rhetoric, I like the policies, but most of all I like the substance. It's Cunt for me all the way!"

[rudi]

"Well I voted Cunt. I like the rhetoric, I like the policies, but most of all I like the substance. It's Cunt for me all the way!"

You're a fool. Vote New Cunt. Shinier, fresher and some pleasing blood spots.



^{Too far...?}