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March 28, 2024, 03:17:36 PM

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F**k The Watershed: Brass Eye Special to be reshown

Started by Partridge's Love Child, April 19, 2004, 09:58:53 AM

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This little article was tucked away in Saturday's Daily Mirror.  I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that there was a photo of Morris, but it wasn't the one of him pointing.  There was also a photo of Kylie in stockings and suspenders, so I was a happy boy.

Quote from: "[url=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=14154610&method=full&siteid=50143Nicola Methven, The Mirror's TV Editor[/url]"]TV'S RUDEST NIGHT EVER Apr 17 2004

[...]

THE 40th anniversary of Mary Whitehouse's campaign to clean up TV is being celebrated with a night of clips that would have horrified her.

The programme, called F*** the Watershed - A History of Controversial TV, will include all the sex and swearing which incited the nation to complain "in the strongest possible terms".

Anna Friel's lesbian kiss in Brookside, Chris Morris's controversial satire Brass Eye and Bill Grundy's infamous interview with the Sex Pistols will all be aired.

I think this is the third time that Channel 4 has done something similar to this.  In the late 80s they had a whole season of programming called Banned which was superb - showing the likes of Dennis Potter's Brimstone & Treacle for the first time amongst a whole host of other stuff.  Disturbingly, my recollection of that seems to be clearer than my grasp of two years ago when Brass Eye Special was last aired, but there's some niggling message in my old grey matter that tells me that that was as a part of some sort of "tabboo" night.

QuoteIt will also show the first time the word f*** was said on TV in 1965 - sparking a parliamentary debate in which a hanging was called for

I never knew that.  I know that it was theatre critic Kenneth Tynan that said it, but it didn't know that there was calls for him to be hanged.  It's particularly amusing considering the fact that the context in which it was said - Tynan claimed that I could not believe that in this [that] day and age that anyone would find the words "fuck off" offensive.  And it's still bleeped out thirty years afterwards.  Still, taking someone's life for muttering a swear words - a swear word which originates from a royal order to shag and make babies - is an interesting piece of moral relativism.  I wonder what they'd have suggested if it had been a milder swear.  Perhaps they could've had a sliding scale - hanging for a "fuck", chop your hands off for a "shit", a heavy fine for a "damn".

QuoteAnna Friel's lesbian kiss in Brookside [...] will be aired [... and] Kylie's sexy commercial for Agent Provocateur

<Sets video in advance.>

TJ

Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"This little article was tucked away in Saturday's Daily Mirror.  I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that there was a photo of Morris, but it wasn't the one of him pointing.

Ah, progress. Hang on... was it the one of him half-lit in profile?

QuoteI think this is the third time that Channel 4 has done something similar to this.  In the late 80s they had a whole season of programming called Banned which was superb - showing the likes of Dennis Potter's Brimstone & Treacle for the first time amongst a whole host of other stuff.  Disturbingly, my recollection of that seems to be clearer than my grasp of two years ago when Brass Eye Special was last aired, but there's some niggling message in my old grey matter that tells me that that was as a part of some sort of "tabboo" night.

There was also BBC2's 'Forbidden' season in about 1995, and BBC2's fantastic 'Politically Incorrect Night' about two years later, that dug up all kinds of fascinating curiosities including the early 1980s animated Robinson's Jam adverts featuring the 'golly'. Not forgetting Channel 4's 'Red Triangle' slot, which was never quite as exciting as people like to pretend. Mainly political stuff, really.

QuoteI never knew that.  I know that it was theatre critic Kenneth Tynan that said it, but it didn't know that there was calls for him to be hanged.  It's particularly amusing considering the fact that the context in which it was said - Tynan claimed that I could not believe that in this [that] day and age that anyone would find the words "fuck off" offensive.  And it's still bleeped out thirty years afterwards.

Hang on a minute... the footage almost certainly doesn't exist. Certainly it didn't when Jerry Sadowitz did that documentary about swearing around ten years ago (his exact comment was "unfortunately we can't show you it - the programme went out live and was never recorded"), and it didn't exist when Roger Wilmut was writing "From Fringe To Flying Circus" a decade before that, and it's 'recovery' has not been mentioned in archive TV circles as far as I know... so where has it supposedly turned up from?

I don't like the sound of this C4 evening much, though. It sounds deliberately targeted at maximum controversy, whereas previous forays into this area at least showed a modicum of restraint and had some sort of an analytical context.

benthalo

QuoteI think this is the third time that Channel 4 has done something similar to this.  In the late 80s they had a whole season of programming called Banned which was superb - showing the likes of Dennis Potter's Brimstone & Treacle for the first time amongst a whole host of other stuff.

The Banned Season was in 1991, and regularly led to Right To Reply features where John Willis was forced to apologise for cutting something or showing the wrong version. But it was a great season. Not sure about Brimstone - the original was screened in 1987 on BBC1 after an 11 year ban. C4 did transmit Scum and Sebastiane in the Banned season but they'd been on before, and had caused greater controversy. It was the first screening of Life Of Brian though.

I'll be amazed if the Tynan clip gets shown as it was live and never recorded! I think it was revealed recently that the word did actually surface somewhere else in a dramatic context, which is possibly what this covers.

Other than Banned, we've had the Forbidden season (1997) which was so-so and a Without Walls evening containing Jerry Sadowitz's The Greatest F**ing Show On Earth and a history of swearing. That was back in 1994.

This one'll be just like all the other listy shows. C4 have long since forgotten how to make good programmes about television.

QuoteStill, taking someone's life for muttering a swear words - a swear word which originates from a royal order to shag and make babies - is an interesting piece of moral relativism.  

Fornicate Under Command of King is one of several possible origins. It's easily the most appealing though.

Rats

This two hour show's going to be in the top 100 sachets of vinegar vein isn't it? Harumph, that means we'll all bloody end up watching it if we're in.

edit: they're great aren't they? All you have to do is rip through the untearable plastic with your teeth and hey-presto, vinegar all up your shirt, very handy. I tried to be clever once and pierced it with a fork before squeezing half of it into my glass of coke. It's great that they think of these things "right, knives forks, little doilies. Hang on a minute, what if the customer wants to flood the table with vinegar?"
"well, I doubt they'd want to do that, we could just put a bottle of vinegar on each table, it's not expensive"
"na, fuck that, I want to make them work for it. I want to toy with them, I want to devise a way wherby they have vinegar but can't get it anywhere near their plates"
"a bottle of vinegar on a chain?"
"hmmm, not quite good enough, we'll work on it, I was thinking more of too much vinegar in a reinforced ballon kind of thing so it went all over their bastard faces"
Christ, I'm turning into ben elton.

Quote from: "TJ"
Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"This little article was tucked away in Saturday's Daily Mirror.  I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that there was a photo of Morris, but it wasn't the one of him pointing.

Ah, progress. Hang on... was it the one of him half-lit in profile?

No, it was that one of him where the baby injecting skag into his arm can be seen just by Morris' head.

I agree, TJ, it sounds like Channel 4 revelling in how daring they are.  Someone made a comment on the Brass Eye Special thread about Morris being non-plussed about how cutting edge Channel 4 reckoned they were for screening it, whereas he thought it was tame.  Rather suggests he was right as usual.  I'd welcome another Banned-type season, but better thought-out than this lazy 100 Greatest Complained About Stuff On Channel 4 Ever! dribble.  I'd like to see the superb Men Only again for starters, which was about a bunch of professional men who gang rape a nurse whilst on Ketomine and starred a pre-Office Martin Freeman and the-excellent-but-wasted-in-Hustle Marc Warren.

Still, I'll probably watch it all.

Quote from: "benthalo"Not sure about Brimstone - the original was screened in 1987 on BBC1 after an 11 year ban.

Banned showed the film version starring Sting.

QuoteIt was the first screening of Life Of Brian though

Ah yes.  Already had it on video by then, which is probably why I didn't remember.

Purple Tentacle

BBC2's "Politically Incorrect Night"?

If I recall, didn't that feature Kiddystare, Frampton Row and Britain's last televised hanging?





Monty Python's Life of Brian was also shown for the first time on telly (I think) during the Banned season on C4, as my much worn and now retired VHS copy can prove. It also featured a TSB advert during the breaks where Alexei Sayle sounds EXACTLY like he's saying "cunt account" instead of "current account". Much source of amusement for the 11 year old there.


edit: Men Only, fuck that was funny, it was on BBC2's 'TV Hell' wasn't it? For some insane reason I thought it was Peter Cook presenting it at the time.

Highlights as I recall are the "Many Thanks" illuminated car-thanking sign, and the topless woman smoking a languid ciggie during the closing credits, timed precisely for the 1960's man to shoot his bolt 5 seconds quicker than over a glimpse of a curved table leg.


edit2: Ahh, it WAS the first screening of Life Of Brian.

Quote from: "Partridge's Love Child"a swear word which originates from a royal order to shag and make babies

Urban? Myth!

benthalo

Quoteedit: Men Only, fuck that was funny, it was on BBC2's 'TV Hell' wasn't it? For some insane reason I thought it was Peter Cook presenting it at the time.

Nooooo! A terrible confusion if you recommended it to your mother. Men Only was a scary C4 'issues' drama from a couple of years ago. You're thinking of Mainly For Men, an edited version of which went out on TV Hell in 1993.

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "benthalo"
Quoteedit: Men Only, fuck that was funny, it was on BBC2's 'TV Hell' wasn't it? For some insane reason I thought it was Peter Cook presenting it at the time.
Nooooo! A terrible confusion if you recommended it to your mother. Men Only was a scary C4 'issues' drama from a couple of years ago. You're thinking of Mainly For Men, an edited version of which went out on TV Hell in 1993.


Wonderful! Cheers, I feel like such a fooool.


It WASN'T Peter Cook now was it? Christ my memory is shite.


Now what about TV Heaven? The polar opposite of TV Hell (it was on before it I think), Frank Muir showing the cream of telly through the ages, obscure archive stuff of high quality, none of which has ever been repeated as far as I can tell. Lots of TV movies (including Nuts in May). Three a night if I recall.

No need for all this unpleasentness all the time, why don't we have programmes like this any more?


edit: TV Heaven originated from "1001 Nights" on Channel 4. if I recall.

Muir could resurrect the show from Heaven itself, seen as he's dead.  That'd knock the moon landing into a cocked hat and might restore some faith in Channel 4.

I remember watching a showing of At Last the 1948 Show.  Or was it Do Not Adjust Your Set?  Mebbe both.  Bit hit-and-miss as I recall, but then so was Python.

benthalo

QuoteIt WASN'T Peter Cook now was it? Christ my memory is shite.

Nope. In fact, there was a theory at the time that it was a modern fake but it was blissfully genuine.

QuoteNow what about TV Heaven? The polar opposite of TV Hell (it was on before it I think), Frank Muir showing the cream of telly through the ages, obscure archive stuff of high quality, none of which has ever been repeated as far as I can tell. Lots of TV movies (including Nuts in May). Three a night if I recall.

Special subject, this. I have complete copies of each evening, 13 in all from 1992. Nuts In May actually went out during A Night With Vic & Bob (BBC2 1993) which was a broadly similar affair. TV Heaven is exactly how retro evenings should be

Quoteedit: TV Heaven originated from "1001 Nights" on Channel 4. if I recall.

Correct. Dick Fiddy researched both, although I think the production companies were different. Illuminations did 1001 Nights and The A-Z Of Television.

1948 Show and Do Not Adjust both went out during TV Heaven.

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "benthalo"
QuoteTV Heaven.....lots of TV movies (including Nuts in May).

Nuts In May actually went out during A Night With Vic & Bob (BBC2 1993) which was a broadly similar affair.

hehehe, I might as well set up a website, vaguerecollection.com , where I talk authoritively about old programmes having only seen them once when I was 11.

Doubtless it would be similar to TVGoHome's "Die Hard Through A Cow", where they televise the results of playing Die Hard to a cow, featuring a scene where Alan Rickman lies down because it's raining.



Could somebody put me out of my misery and remind me what the pink triangle business was all about? My only vague, Die Hard through-a-cow recollection of early Channel 4 is an advert for a chinese takeaway from before they had proper adverts, that went "yes please, the real chinese".

Apparently I used to sing it all the time from my buggy, along with the full orchestral version of the TVS theme.

TJ

Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"Could somebody put me out of my misery and remind me what the pink triangle business was all about? My only vague, Die Hard through-a-cow recollection of early Channel 4 is an advert for a chinese takeaway from before they had proper adverts, that went "yes please, the real chinese".

*Red* triangle, roughly 1986-87 (I think) - a small symbol in the top left hand corner of the screen (and in the TV Times listing) indicating that a film liable to cause offence to viewers of a sensitive disposition was being shown. One or two contained 'shock' scenes, but they were far from being splatter films or hardcore porn and were usually European Arthouse efforts, with their controversial sections surrounded by acres of dense and impenetrable plot. They were usually foreign language efforts too, which further diluted any schoolboy-exciting impact. Anyway, most of the films shown under the banner were controversial for political reasons. The Red Triangle was dropped after about twelve months, when market reserach indicated that the symbol was serving as an enticement rather than a warning.

Fast forward two decades, and... oh dear.

Purple Tentacle

...wheras the pink triangle was used by the Nazis to label homosexuals for extermination.

I am so fucking wrong and confused today, I think I'm in a episode of Sliders.

alan strang

Quote from: "TJ"They were usually foreign language efforts too, which further diluted any schoolboy-exciting impact.

Frank Skinner did a great routine about 'Banned' seasons - watching with your trousers round your ankles, box of tissues next to the armchair, etc. The killer line was something like "It's actually quite hard to fulfill yourself sexually while watching a documentary about political censorship during the Miner's Strike..."

QuoteAnyway, most of the films shown under the banner were controversial for political reasons. The Red Triangle was dropped after about twelve months, when market reserach indicated that the symbol was serving as an enticement rather than a warning.

I recall one particularly odd Russian film which featured an extended and depressing sex scene between a pregnant woman and an enormous black man. Earlier on in the film she'd been warned to lay off sex since her internal bits were a bit sensitive after a rape. The sex scene which ensued was a tasteful montage of ever-reddening bedsheets and a sweaty negro bum. With a great big subtitle in the way.

The thing is, you could actually believe back then that C4 were genuinely innocent when it came to the red triangle and that they weren't thinking in terms of cynically reaching out for an audience of literal wankers.

These days the channel is run by literal wankers.

Barney Sloane

I remember the Red Triangle season, featuring "The Wall" (not the Pink Floyd one, but a film about a brutal Turkish prison) and Hector Babenco's "Pixote" (one of Nick Cave's favourite films, apparently).  

The Politically Incorrect Night is somehow hazier in the memory.  I remember a few sections called "Incorrect Respect" where M. Lamarr paid tribute to Sam Kinison (and Roy Chubby Brown, IIRC), and a clearly-missing-the-fucking- point Arabella Weir paying homage to Rigsby.

benthalo

Lamarr definitely paid tribute to Roy Chubby Brown on Tony Parson's witless Big Mouth, a dreadful culch-ah show on C4 c.1996. It was followed by Miranda Sawyer virtually spitting into RCB's face across the desk.

I cocked up the timer for PC Night, so can't contribute to that discussion. I only saw a bit of the Miss World doc at the start.

Adam & Joe's Fourmative Years named and shamed a few of the red triangle films. Can't remember the titles now, but the compilation included a very tense battle of tit brushing from Spain.

TJ

Quote from: "benthalo"Adam & Joe's Fourmative Years named and shamed a few of the red triangle films. Can't remember the titles now, but the compilation included a very tense battle of tit brushing from Spain.

Titles that I can recall include "Sebastiene", "Themroc", "A Zed And Two Noughts", and "Throw Out Your Books, Go Out Into The Street". I'm also fairly sure that "The Sex Mission" was first shown with a red triangle in the corner, even though it was merely a harmless and mostly sexless sci-fi satire and was later shown several times in a late evening slot anyway.

I've also got a sneaking suspicion that it was used for more than just films. I've a strong recollection of a sort of Newsnight-type programme running a report on the Red Triangle, which featured said corner adornment over the video for Samantha Fox's 'Touch Me'.

alan strang

Quote from: "Barney Sloane"I remember the Red Triangle season, featuring "The Wall" (not the Pink Floyd one, but a film about a brutal Turkish prison) and Hector Babenco's "Pixote" (one of Nick Cave's favourite films, apparently).

I think I remember the Turkish prison film. Did it feature an inmate having the soles of his feet walloped as punishment for not being circumcised?

There's a pretty good archived thread from 1997 on Google Groups about all this. Do a search for 'red triangle' - it should be the first one on the list (I won't post the link because it'll make this page go ridiculously wide).

Have C4 actually published a full list of the clips they'll be showing? What's the betting that the woman from L7 showing her 'beav' will be shown yet again.

TJ

Quote from: "alan strang"Have C4 actually published a full list of the clips they'll be showing? What's the betting that the woman from L7 showing her 'beav' will be shown yet again.

The annoying thing is that it didn't cause *any* trouble at the time. The NME leched a bit, a few teenage indie boys (and possibly girls too - L7 had that sort of 'confused' following) had a wank... but no-one else noticed.

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "alan strang"I think I remember the Turkish prison film. Did it feature an inmate having the soles of his feet walloped as punishment for not being circumcised?

I would love to meet people that go to see such relentlessly bleak films at the cinema.

"I just came back from watching the story of a one-legged Afghan prostitute fighting ritual clitoral mutilation in nursery schools run by heroin dealing rapists".

Just what you want on a saturday night over salty popcorn.



I wonder if they WILL show "Kiddypops"?

And WAS the Anna Freil thing SUCH a big deal, or is it all blown up by Channel 4 like what Nighty Night is?

alan strang

Quote from: "TJ""A Zed And Two Noughts"

Starring Jim Davidson as a zookeeper. I wonder if Chortle have a copy.

QuoteI'm also fairly sure that "The Sex Mission" was first shown with a red triangle in the corner, even though it was merely a harmless and mostly sexless sci-fi satire and was later shown several times in a late evening slot anyway.

Was that the one with the two blokes waking up in a Logan's Run-style matriarchal society of the future? That was excellent.

QuoteThe annoying thing is that it didn't cause *any* trouble at the time. The NME leched a bit, a few teenage indie boys (and possibly girls too - L7 had that sort of 'confused' following) had a wank... but no-one else noticed.{/quote]

As such it's a perfect candidate to allow C4 to claim that it caused questions to be asked in Parliament, ensured the collapse of the Berlin Wall and resulted in them big horses deciding to go for a swim in the Guiness advert.

TJ

Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"I wonder if they WILL show "Kiddypops"?

I'd say it's very, very unlikely. From what I can gather, the rights partly reside with the creator, who is understandably wary of the way in which the show has been misinterpreted and reluctant to authorise the use of footage. By way of illustration - proper from-the-masters extracts appeared in BBC2's TV Hell, which took an objective look at the show and interviewed the creator and his daughter (who gave some fascinating insights into the genuine - if a little naive - innocence behind the venture), whereas C4's Top 100 TV Moments From Hell had to rely on clips taken from a worn VHS from someone's 'private collection'.

QuoteAnd WAS the Anna Freil thing SUCH a big deal, or is it all blown up by Channel 4 like what Nighty Night is?

To be fair, I do remember it causing a bit of a furore at the time. In fact, it's not unreasonable to compare the reaction to that provoked by the BES, complete with its own 'will the repeat be pulled?' mini-drama.

TJ

Quote from: "alan strang"
QuoteI'm also fairly sure that "The Sex Mission" was first shown with a red triangle in the corner, even though it was merely a harmless and mostly sexless sci-fi satire and was later shown several times in a late evening slot anyway.

Was that the one with the two blokes waking up in a Logan's Run-style matriarchal society of the future? That was excellent.

That's the one. A fantastic film. I really wish I had a copy of that.

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "TJ"
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"I wonder if they WILL show "Kiddypops"?
I'd say it's very, very unlikely. From what I can gather, the rights partly reside with the creator, who is understandably wary of the way in which the show has been misinterpreted and reluctant to authorise the use of footage.

How interesting, do you have any links for the alternative interpretation of Kiddypops? Being born in 1980 I was too young to remember watching (although probably too old to appear in it, arf!), so the only opinion I can form of it is the sinister "Kiddystare" interpretation.

In short... what was he thinking?

Rats

We've got stars in their eyes kids now, I can't see much of a difference. I wonder why mathew kelly doesn't do the kids version.

TJ

Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"In short... what was he thinking?

Potted history - the 'Minipops' had been around since the late 1970s as a performing troupe impersonating pop stars, usually to be found on The Royal Variety Performance, TV shows with Des O'Connor etc. C4 give them a show when the station starts. No-one has banked on a) how much impact the format will have over a sustained half-hour slot and b) kids lying in order to get more make-up slapped on them as a form of one-upmanship (confirmed by the creator's daughter, who herself was one of the performers). Some people complain that it's a bit inappropriate (although there never was a fuss on the scale that people like to pretend), the show is written off as a misfire by all concerned and quietly cancelled. Mainly forgotten about until "TV Hell" in 1992.

Purple Tentacle

http://www.ktelclassics.com/minipops.html
(edit: I can't link the picture, it's a 'protected gif'.... jesus...)


Wonderful, I just found the "Minipops" album:

Check out the picture on the bottom right of the cover.


Tracks on the album include "YMCA" and "In The Navy" oh dear god....

Barney Sloane

Quote from: "benthalo"Lamarr definitely paid tribute to Roy Chubby Brown on Tony Parson's witless Big Mouth, a dreadful culch-ah show on C4 c.1996. It was followed by Miranda Sawyer virtually spitting into RCB's face across the desk.


Yeah, that's probably what I was thinking of.  I remember that episode - they were discussing the film "The Birdcage" when RCB went into some fuckwitted homophobic rant, while Miranda Sawyer's barely contained rage seemingly made her incapable of responding with anything more cutting than "Yeah, yeah."

Hoogstraten'sSmilingUlcer

Quotethey were discussing the film "The Birdcage" when RCB went into some fuckwitted homophobic rant,

Brown's in it to shock in the crudest possible way, although I've got no doubt that he is genuinely homophobic. I'm sure he absolutely loathes people like Miranda Sawyer (pseudo-intellectuals who didn't have to leave school at 13 and who don't think Blackpool is the centre of the world).

I wouldn't be surprised if Tony Parsons worshipped the ground RCB drooled on as a 'guy who isn't afraid to tell it like it is.'