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The Fall

Started by The Man With Brass Eyes, April 19, 2004, 08:10:29 PM

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I have High Tension Line cued up in my CD player ready to play this evening.
It's a two disk CD album that I found for a few quid in HMV.

Secondly: any ideas if this is any good?  I'll be able to tell for myself in a few minutes when it switches disks.  But I'm under the impression it's a later album and therefore potentially not very good (going by the generalised logic of "bands do their better stuff near the beginning").

and Firstly: I get the impression there's a fair few likers of the Fall on here.
Can you recommend some good albums (it might include High Tension Line)?
They appear to have done so many.  It seems a bit of a mine-field for a Fall novice - I mean I've only heard say, Kicker Conspiracy & Touch Sensitive and a few others.

Anything you have to say would be good.  Especially if it is about the Fall.

Rats

It's a best of compilation of albums from the 90s. I just had a look at the track liting and it looks pretty good, check out noels chemical effluence near the end, it's a blinder. If you're just dipping in, get psykick dancehall, a three disc compilation of early stuff that you just be able to get just as cheap. If you fancy an album, take your pick, they're all decent, I like perverted by language the best, the marshall suite is class too.

Quote from: "Rats"It's a best of compilation of albums from the 90s. I just had a look at the track liting and it looks pretty good, check out noels chemical effluence near the end, it's a blinder. If you're just dipping in, get psykick dancehall, a three disc compilation of early stuff that you just be able to get just as cheap. If you fancy an album, take your pick, they're all decent, I like perverted by language the best, the marshall suite is class too.
[/size]

Ah thanks for that.  That's a good start.

What was the era of the band was it the 80s to 90s, or more likr mid-80s?

It's Mark E Smith who's the lead singer right?

Rats

They formed in 77 and have never stopped, in fact I just saw them in newcastle a few months ago and they were fucking amazing, much better than the first time I seen them which was a bit dissapointing but that more than made up for it. Yeah it's mark e smith, he's in a wheelchair at the minute, fell over while walking out to get a box of matches in newcastle the day after the gig apparently. If you want some modern stuff, the new album "country on the click, the real new fall lp" has had rave reviews all round, the same with "the unnuterable", miss out "are you are missing winner" for now until you find your feet and get "the light user syndrome" if you see it because that is a masterpiece.

I don't know how qualified I am to speak on this front because I've only been into The Fall for a few months.

Before that I'd been meaning to listen to them for ages, since I knew both John Peel and Stewart Lee (who recently wrote an introductory article about them) were big fans. The first thing I bought  was the 2CD 'Totally Wired' compilation of material from the mid-eighties, which was quite lucky because this is arguably their best period.

Instantly I was converted by the energy of the music and of course, the inventiveness Mark E. Smith's fractured lyrics. After 'Totally Wired' I got two further compilations, 'A Past Gone Mad', covering the nineties and 'It's The New Thing!', covering the late 70s to early 80s. By now I realised the extent of their catalogue, so instead of buying the albums I started downloading them from emusic, which has the majority of them available for download, at the cost of £10 a month for 80 songs. Definitely worth it if you're on a budget, not to mention the other good bands on there.

As for what to buy next, I would recommend all the compilations mentioned above, especially the first as a taster. The album 'Hex Enduction Hour' is generally considered their best, whilst 'This Nation's Saving Grace' and 'I Am Kurious, Oranj' are seen as more accessible, but still classics. The offical website has more info than you could ever want.

I've got Totally Wired, which is class, 2 CDs I could never be without.

The trouble with The Fall is that they've got so much material released, authorised and unauthorised, that you never know quite where to begin, or where to continue. They are quite incredible in that way though- basically an album a year since 1977.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: "Rats"...and get "the light user syndrome" if you see it because that is a masterpiece.

Never a truer word spoken! Of their 90s output, this is definitely the best, although Shiftwork, Extricate, and Middle Class Revolt are all exceptionally brilliant albums too. For some reason, I can't get into Code: Selfish, apart from the classic Free Range and Everything Hurtz. Of their 80s output, my favourites are Perverted by Language, Hex Enduction Hour, and This Nation's Saving Grace although, to be honest, you can't really go wrong anywhere. Bend Sinister is cool too. Fuck it, they're all ace. Some of their really early stuff, though, doesn't do a great deal for me, bit too scratchy and unlistenable. As for all their compilations and what-not, you'll have to ask someone way more knowledgable than me. I gave up on their compilations yonks ago. However, if you see any Fall compilation that's got a track called Ed's Babe on it, get it forthwith cos that is one awesome track that bizarrely didn't make it onto any album.

Good luck!

elderford

Well done young man. Now is an ideal time to discover them.

Sanctuary records are currently remastering lux and reduxing the output, but first...

hold your horses.

Either this or next month sees the release of yet another best of (50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong), double cd, compiled by the man himself.

So far they have re-mastered the first four albums: 1978-80?

Live at the Witch Trials
Dragnet
Totales' Turns
Grotesque (After the Gramme)

All mit bonus tracks: single A/B sides, John Peel Sessions, rarities, etc.

All merrily priced around a tenner or less (surf out for Action Records).

I think the plan is to release 2 every 2 months or so.

How to begin your collection: avoid anything involving Revolver Records. This is not to say they're shite, but Smith signed a weird deal whereby they were licensed to put out Fall product, which was something like six albums. Those original six have been re-issued as two box sets (3 cds each), as well as countless best of single and doulbe albums. They consist of alternate takes (not that much different usually) and live tracks. Smith has since apologised to fans for signing the deal. By avoiding them (or leaving them till last) you can cut at least 10 albums from your must have collection.

Also, the Fall sound is strong at the moment, so checking out the 21st century product is not a bad thing either:

The Unutterable
Are You Are Missing Winner
The Real New Fall Album (Formerly Known as Country on the Click)

Nearly Annually

Oh fuggit, I suppose I'd better have another go. I'm so obviously missing something. Someone recommend me an entry level album please. Jim? It was you who said Mark E Smith and Tim Smith weren't mutually exclusive. But just promise me I'll never have to like The Smiths, OK?

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: "Nearly Annually"Oh fuggit, I suppose I'd better have another go. I'm so obviously missing something. Someone recommend me an entry level album please. Jim? It was you who said Mark E Smith and Tim Smith weren't mutually exclusive.

I'd trust your well-honed musical instincts, Nearly, to be honest. But if you still fancy a try, then get...

...The Wonderful and Frightening World of The Fall

Forgot to mention this above, actually, but I reckon this is probably the most consistently excellent album they've ever released.

And no, Mark E. Smith and Timmy Smith aren't mutually exclusive at all, it's just that I remember a chat I had with Bob Leef once and he said about The Fall: "I can't see what all the fuss is about." Bit strange really, seeing as Bob's "other" band, LeisurHive, about which I know nothing apart from the fact it's Bob's "other" band, apparently sound like a cross between The Fall and Wire.

Nearly Annually

Well I got taken to a gig in about '95 by a mate who was studying in Manchester and had decided that ergo he liked The Fall. Bit fishy really, as before that he was listening to Yes. The music didn't sound all that challenging that night. Anything special I heard seemed to be eminating from the guy with the computer screens. This ugly bloke of indeterminate age in a white shirt just stood there, mostly, mumbling words I couldn't make out. It was quite the drabbest affair I had attended in some time. Afterwards, back in someone's bedsit, I embarrassed my mate with my blasphemy. Later that night we took shrooms and watched Pingu through a multieffects rack - much better. So my sojourn to the rainy city wasn't totally wasted.

Recently, due to all the MES fans on here I thought, well, it must be all in the lyrics then, let's see these astounding lyrics then; and I went to a lyrics site. Foiled again. Fairly underwhelmed.


Sorry, I know this isn't Comedy Chat and as a rule we don't break in on each other's fan threads to say "They're shit" here, but that's not what I'm saying. It's just that The Fall confound me because lots of people I respect love them. Rats, elderford, 23 Daves, Jim and John Peel, to name but a few. Link me some mp3s and I'll shut up and go away.

Edit: just listened to "Second Dark Age". Thanks Rats. This door, was it? Don't get up.

Hello again TMWBE, btw.

Rats

Try this one, The Fall - Shake Off Sorry, it didn't mp3 very well cos all the nobs are pushed right up the top on that one.

Nearly Annually

Mm, like that a bit more. Quite a lot like (proper) Chumbawamba innit. Could go out in the car for a weekend on that. Now all it needs is an Eddie van Halen widdly widdly guitar solo. Joking. Still prefer my old punks to have taught themselves some of the finer points of music by now though. And a bit of singing maybe - what's wrong with a good old sing song, eh? I'll be your little non-believer /  prospect if you like, Rats.

Quote from: "Nearly Annually"Oh fuggit, I suppose I'd better have another go. I'm so obviously missing something. Mark E Smith and Tim Smith weren't mutually exclusive. But just promise me I'll never have to like The Smiths, OK?

Hello and welcome to you back.

I guess you could always have a Buckley instead of a Smith.

Currently I'm trying to get into a lovely little band called Shellec that my friend really adores and so I have borrowed a cd off him.  Probably about 70/30 at the moment.  70% quite like.  30-part unsure of (strangly the same reason(s) I like them - the disjointed & in some ways a little tuneless efforts).
I think I'm going to level out liking them.  The opening track on this here 1000 Hurts lp is mighty infectious what with it's "fuckin' kill him/ fuckin' kill him/ fuckin' kill him" refrain.
I saw them twice (technically saw nothing the first time round - I was moshing just outside a door) at the recent All Tomorrow's Parties gig.  They were quite top then.

anyway enough about legendary producers in lesser-known bands.

back to the Fall...

Des Nilsen

I brought the 'Totally Wired' Rough Trade 2-disk set a year ago and I really like what I've heard on it. There's something indefinably *great* about the overall sound of the band. It's the straightforwardness of it I think - it's punkyness attracts me more than most punk actually does.

My computer is slow and creaky and my wallet is almost empty but sooner or later I'll buy some more. Almost certainly.

-

Quote from: "Des Nilsen"My computer is slow and creaky and my wallet is almost empty but sooner or later I'll buy some more. Almost certainly.

HMV have the double-disc High_Tension_Line in it's (current) sale.   I think it's about a fiver or 4.99 in new-pence.

According to someone above it's somekind of compilation from the past.

Schlippy

Just chelping out the same as everyone else, but the early/mid-80's stuff is fantastic. You can't go wrong with any of "Hex Enduction Hour", "The Wonderful And Frightening World Of The Fall", "This Nation's Saving Grace" or "Perverted By Language". Pavement fans may like to listen to "The Classical" on Hex, to see where all that started.

Someone told me that Mark "Boy Lard" Riley played guitar on the early Fall albums, anyone know if that is so? Wouldn't surprise me, at the rate Mark E. gets through musicians I figure every able-bodied guitarist will at some point or another get a chance to play in The Fall.

And for the Man With Brass Eyes, Shellac's first long-player "At Action Park" is an absolute blinder from start to finish. Albini's always been a production freak, and it really shows, you need a legit recording of Shellac's stuff to really do em justice.

"Prayer To God" must be the best break-up song ever, heh.

Rats

Yeah, lard played bass and then graduated to lead guitar when someone left. Mark said "I always thought he'd be better suited to presenting kids telly which is more or less what he's doing now". He was kicked out because he was getting too good at playing guitar.

9

thanks for all the great info in this thread. i went out and bought my first fall record this morning (high tension line) and have fallen in love with it.

birmingham school of business schools is fucking incredible.

Quote from: "9"thanks for all the great info in this thread. i went out and bought my first fall record this morning (high tension line) and have fallen in love with it.

birmingham school of business schools is fucking incredible.

Hey man we're both Fall virgins by the seems of things.
That's the only one I've got too.

Ha, ha look at that: one too.  if only I'd got that album free. or free for a present...

Uncle Gripper

The Fall were my first true love, i had a minor dalliance with Japan, before hand, but i was too young to know better, although they did do some decent stuff (ahem).  As far as albums go, and we all like LOL NO originals now dont we, not the comps, train of thought and a slice of the times etcetr-ah.  it has to be 'LIVE AT THE WITCHTRIALS', absolutely peerless album in its day and still packs an excellent punch.  Amphetamine psychosis features highly, very well produced and insightful, get it, put the vloume and let the 2 drummers surround you with taught beats and 'riddims'

"WE ARE THE FALL, NONE THE WHITE CRAP THAT TALKS BAAAAACK"


yes please!!

thatmuch

I got into The Fall in 1978 and out again in about '88, which is a common but minority position among Fall fans. I loved them with a passion during that period. 'Totally Wired' is good but has some slightly weak live tracks if I remember right.

You should get, in this order:

Early Singles
Slates for christ's sake
Hex Enduction Hour
"Perverted by Language" (CD includes the astonishing 'Man whose head Expanded')
Dragnet
Hex Enduction Hour

then take a rest.

elderford

As I said, hang on there kids, and wait for the lux and redux re-issues.

I think I read somewhere that they are going up to the Beggars Banquet era, so all the material from the "Classic" Fall period should be available on cds with singles and Peel sessions by say just before Christmas this year.

The problem with just rushing in is that the previous re-issues of the "Classic" and "Early" albums is that they were remastered from vinyl (Smith owns the rights to all the Fall stuff, so I'm not too sure what he thought he was up to with that one).

The re-issue of Live at the Witchtrials for instance includes all the extra jollies as well as a bonus live cd from 1978 (previously sold separately).

Plus they're all in slipcases with expanded sleeve art (including the singles sleeves front and back, bits of press articles, etc).

The whole thing is being masterminded by Sanctuary Records.

de selby

Quote from: "thatmuch"I got into The Fall in 1978 and out again in about '88, which is a common but minority position among Fall fans. I loved them with a passion during that period. 'Totally Wired' is good but has some slightly weak live tracks if I remember right.

You should get, in this order:

Early Singles
Slates for christ's sake
Hex Enduction Hour
"Perverted by Language" (CD includes the astonishing 'Man whose head Expanded')
Dragnet
Hex Enduction Hour

then take a rest.

I guess that's my favourite Fall period too.
I agree with your recommendations - apart from buying "Hex" twice - and would add "Live at the Witch Trials" and especially "Grotesque" to that list.

Johnny Yesno

There seem to be so many compilation albums out on labels like Trojan that it's got a bit confusing. I'd recommend  This Nation's Saving Grace (it's got loads of sing-a-long stuff on it), Bend Sinister, Hex Enduction Hour, Palace of Swords Reversed (an official early compilation with The Man Whose Head Expanded, and material from Slates on it but easier to find than Slates), and I Am Kurious Oranj.
The lyrics are fucking great AY but I guess a lot of it's in the delivery. Existentialist punk - you can't say fairer than that. In a market saturated with love songs or songs where people are whining about nothing it's nice to hear lyrics about time travel, corruption in football, and Orangemen.

thatmuch

Quote from: "elderford"
The re-issue of Live at the Witchtrials for instance includes all the extra jollies as well as a bonus live cd from 1978 (previously sold separately).

Has anyone heard that live cd? Is it at all listenable?

I heard the re-mastered Dragnet CD and it was more like a re-mix! Horribly digital, very un-Fall, in my opinion. The whole point of the original record was to be dank and dirty. Me being very old indeed, I remember when it first came out - it was such a statement of what punk  should have been about.

The CD of Perverted by Language is fine though, and the two live ones from '82 - In a Hole and Live to Air in Melbourne - are great examples of what the Fall could be before the sour-faced Manc fell in the sauce and started beating up the band on stage.

I reckon you've only spent around £200 now, so you should be able to afford the Witch Trials and Grotesque, as recommended by De Selby.

Finally: 2nd hand vinyl on Ebay or GEMM.

Auntie Ovipositor

The Fall are the penultimate love/hate band. I'm a fan, but I go back and forth so constantly it's almost embarassing. They can go from brilliantly inspiring to embarassingly hack faster than any other band around, sometimes inside of the same song. They are maybe the most interesting groove band of the last 20 years, able to find the pocket in anything. I'm partial to Scanlan's guitar playing, and the stuff on either side of his being in the band is of lesser interest to me, but even some of that's pretty good.

Grotesque has a real soft spot in my skull, but is maybe not a great album (and again - Pavement fans should give "New Face In Hell" a listen, as "Conduit for Sale is not so much a reverencial homage as a straight and uninspired rip, which is sad because they were for their few minutes a great band, but that's a song beyond their means).

The song "Jawbone and the Air Rifle" exists on some thousand+ comps and live albums and is great every single time.

This Nation's Saving Grace has held up better to my ears than Perverted by Language, but that's purely a matter of personal taste. TNSG has its thin spots (both albums do because, well, they're fall albums, and if it were perfect from front to back it wouldn't be a fall album), but also has "Paintwork", which is maybe the most interestingly "experimental" studio song the Fall ever hung up. It's like 2 different catchy songs pasted randomly together, with a lot of... other... stuff in there as well. Possibly the most interesting modern take on those '60s freak-out records, but compressed into a single song. Oh, and there's "My New House" or whatever it's called - one of their classic 1 riff songs.

I also listen to Hip Priest and Descants (or whatever it's called) a lot, and Palace of Swords Reversed, but those are earler comps and have probably been run out of business by the new and regular slew of comps being put out every few weeks (read: MES's retirement scheme).

After several years of them not coming to the US, I finally saw them a few years back, and they blew. It looked like MES had snagged some lads from down at the pub and brought them out on the road with him. That or they were studio musicians.  Too much of the ponytails and shiny shirts, not enough genuine rock. And MES kept playing with his dentures, flipping the plate around in his mouth. I swore them off there and then - they'd had a good run of 20+ years, but now it was over.

Unfortunately, the real new fall album seems to have some real gems on it. I fear I'm gonna buy it, possibly like it, then probably go see them in a month or so when they're here. I'm convinced they're just toying with my fragile emotions and that it'll all end badly, but I have problems and probably deserve it.

elderford

I haven't listened to the live album which accompanies Live at the Witchtrials yet, but apparently the quality begins pisspoor and improves somewhat around track four or five.

Also of interest to anyone with more money than sense is the recent Touch Sensitive Live dvd. Which gives the curious a good look at a recent live performance (with no march offs for pep talks, but the usual MES stage absences, ie. really long intros). The bass player's ponytail is mildy distressing thoughout (but he's been replaced now for the USA tour).

Extras include: MES in the pub and an entertaining/tedious The Fall under MES guidance preparing the setlist, with MES giving playing instructions, smoking tabs, etc).

Rats

Hehe, yeah, the dvd is pretty crappy. Go and see them auntie, they were on great form when I saw them.

Neville Chamberlain

Quote from: "Auntie Ovipositor"..."Paintwork", which is maybe the most interestingly "experimental" studio song the Fall ever hung up.

God that song is brilliant!