'Wimblemong 2008 - Info Centre (Draws, rules, news etc)

[Derek Trucks]

Firstly a word about the tournament format.  Including the couple of people that didn't make clear whether they were playing or not and have been thrown into the draw anyway, the total number of players comes to 36, which is a nightmare from a working-out-a-format perspective.  Ideally we want to get to a number that's a power of 2 asap (4,8,16etc).  But it's a bit pointless having a round where only 4 people get knocked out, and it's cruel to go straight to 16 and have winners of ties go out.  So here's how it's going to work:

Round 1: 36 players, 18 matches.  The winners of each match go through, along with the 6 highest losers (i.e. the losers that get the most votes).

Round 2: 24 players, 12 matches.   The winners of each match go through, along with the 4 highest losers.

Round 3: 16 players.  Easy, it's now knockout all the way to the end.

So here's the draw for Round 1 (NB: whoever's name is first in each tie is the server, they'll be the one getting the match started):

Miles   v   Johnny Yesno
Artemis   v   The Boston Crab
Baxter   v   nagsworth
jutl   v   Old Thrashbag
Delete Delete Delete   v   Clone Army
Stringbean Dean   v   micanio
weekender   v   Fry
no_offenc   v   vitalstatistix
Doc Daneeka   v   swarfmonkey
Lee   v   Small Man Big Horse
Cerys   v   ETT
mook   v   Al Tha Funkee Homosapien
chocky909   v   Fanny Splendid
Go With The Flow   v   Koant
hpmons   v   ziggy starbucks
Marv Orange   v   Cardinal Tit Storm
Rubbish Monkey   v   Sweet Rosalyn
DolphinFace   v   TV's Nick Wealthall


A quick reminder of the rules:

1. Each match will consist of two shots per player.
2. The player with the opening shot (i.e. the server) can put what they want in their picture.  But all subsquent pictures (i.e the return) must contain, either visually or conceptually, an element of the previous picture.
3. The pictures will be 600 x 400, or 400 x 600 pixels in size.
4. Voting will take place by posting the name of your favourite in the game thread after immediately after play has ended (i.e. when the 4th picture of each match has been posted).  The voting will last for 48 hours.
5. Common sense prevails in image choice.
6. Pictures can be uploaded to places like photobucket.com for those who have no webspace, but the picture must be displayed in the game thread.

And a reminder of time permitted:  You have 72 hours to post an image from when the round starts or from when the last shot has been posted.  So for you servers in this round, you need to post your picture by midnight Friday.  Keep a look out on your game for when your opponent posts their shot, as it's from that time that the 72 hours start.  If at any point you need an extra day or two, please let me know either in the thread for that match or by PM - if I don't hear from people I will disqualify them (I'll also get a little tired if the same people keep asking for more time repeatedly).  I don't want to be too hard on people but with each round potentially taking 2 weeks (4 shots x 3 days + 2 days voting) and there being 6 rounds it's going to take us a while anyway so I don't want things to drag even more.

One last thing, when posting your first shot be sure to start a new topic in the Wimblemong sub-forum (any chance of a forum name change Admin?  It still says 2007 in the title) and mark the match clearly like so:

Wimblemong 2008 Round 1 - Miles v Johnny Yesno

It'll make it clearer for everyone to find, and ultimately to vote for.

Right, that's enough being authoritative for one evening, I hope everyone has fun whether they're playing or just looking at some of the great images that this competition produces.  Good luck!

DT

[weekender]

What the fuck?  Why am I in this?  I only said I'd be willing to participate if I had a partner who could mong.  You stupid sod Derek, it's no good putting me in a painting competition when I can't paint.  Honestly.

Oh bugger it.  If anyone can help me mong my first idea, great.  I have my own webspace and everything so I can host the pictures!

If not, expect a poor quality MS Paint entry before Friday.

[Derek Trucks]

Apologies weekender, though I did ask a few days ago if the people with a question mark by their name (which you were one) were taking part or not as it wasn't clear - those I didn't hear from I've stuck in the draw anyway.  No matter, looking forward to seeing what you can do!

[ziggy starbucks]

But it's a bit pointless having a round where only 4 people get knocked out, and it's cruel to go straight to 16 and have winners of ties go out.  So here's how it's going to work:

Round 1: 36 players, 18 matches.  The winners of each match go through, along with the 6 highest losers (i.e. the losers that get the most votes).

Round 2: 24 players, 12 matches.   The winners of each match go through, along with the 4 highest losers.

Round 3: 16 players.  Easy, it's now knockout all the way to the end.

regarding this bit, perhaps it would be better if the highest losers were selected based on the proportion of votes they get, rather than the total number of votes. Some games will get less votes than others, some games may be lost in the avalanche of all the 1st and 2nd round games. For instance, the game that finishes early is bound to get more votes than one that finishes near the end of the round.

proportions take this problem out of the equation.

anyway, thanks for organising this DT

[Derek Trucks]

Nah, I take the view that good games between two good players will entice votes either way.  Even the losers of these good games will pick up plenty of votes, and it's these players that the system will reward.  Plus it's much easier to keep tracks of numbers than it is calculating percentages, so I think the format as is is the most natural.  You raise an interesting point though, and it makes it worth reminding people to try and vote as much as they can throughout the tournament, you don't need to be a player to take part.

[Small Man Big Horse]

That all looks good to me Derek, cheers for organising it all.

[alan nagsworth]

Good job Derek. Can't wait to get some sleep and get cracking on mine this afternoon, had a whole night of boredom to think my entry through.

In the meanwhiles, here's how not to mong, by people who really ought to know better. I found it quite the refreshing confidence boost.

Knock 'em dead, 'Whores.

[Emma Raducanu]

Hahaha, I just noticed I'm in this competition.

[jutl]

The forum could do with a titular increment.

[Cerys]

Don't be filthy.

[Still Not George]

In the meanwhiles, here's how not to mong, by people who really ought to know better. I found it quite the refreshing confidence boost.

Y'bastard, that's my chances of getting any work done gone.

[terminallyrelaxed]

Wheres that showcase of photoshop triumphs, that agency that made Billy Bob Thornton look half his age etc.

[Derek Trucks]

Just to make it clear as there's been a bit of confusion, players have 72 hours from the last shot to post a picture, not the match has to be over in 72 hours from the start time.  Overall, very impressed with the speed and effort of competitors so far.

[Baxter]

With the speed the initial matches are going at, I'd like to suggest that perhaps some of the later phases be extended to the traditional number of mongs per match.

[Artemis]

Can we vote by poll rather than by responding in the thread? That would open things up for discussion a bit more in the thread, and mean the rest of us can keep track of who's winning a lot more easily.

[Derek Trucks]

If the momentum continues as well as this I will definately consider having 3 shots per player per round at the later stages - maybe once we get to the last 16 in Round 3?

Sorry Artemis, but it's a definate no for polls.  How would I know that people aren't using their 2nd (or 3rd, or nth) accounts to vote more than once?  And how would I know players aren't voting for themselves?  If you want to discuss matches, go ahead and do it in the threads.  I'm not having a problem counting scores up where there's intervals of dialogue, and at the end of the day Brian, I'm the only one that needs to get it right.

[chocky909]

You're doing a excellent job organising it so far Derek, I just have a quick observation and idea about the voting...

Obviously too late to change things right now but it's apparant that the current way of having the losers with most votes go on to the next round is often not bringing the best players through. If someone ' really good' meets someone 'excellent' then the excellent player gets virtually all the votes despite the good player being really good. If two players meet who are evenly matched, then the votes are more evenly spread resulting in a greater chance of having the most loser votes regardless of quality compared to other matches.

I have an idea that might be a possible option in the future. If after all the matches are finished, we have a 'loser voting thread' where everyone votes by listing the losers in order of preference with points for position (10 for 1st, 8 for 2nd etc) then the contestants can be judged against each other, hopefully bringing the best players through to the next round.

Whaddya think?

[Derek Trucks]

You raise some interesting points, and yes it can be frustrating to see a player you think is quite good come up against someone truly great and get very few votes.  But here's how I see it:

Ask any football fan and they'll tell you that random draws can be very, very cruel and will often see good teams go out earlier than they really should.  Remember the only reason we have the 'highest losers' rule in place is because there's an uneven number of players - if 32 had entered instead of 36 it would have been a straight knockout, and there would have been nothing to stop the best player drawing the 2nd best player in the first round meaning one of them would have gone.  It may have been harsh and a loss to the tournament but that's the luck of the draw and I don't think we want to get rid of that as it's part of the fun.  Also (I'm now whispering to you off the record) it seems that more people are now getting the gist of the competition and tactically voting to keep good losers in.  Now I don't condone this, I think you should vote for who you think is the best player.  But if people want to vote for someone I will always respect and honour that, so ultimately it's up to you lot.  And of course, 'good' players will always eventually get knocked out by 'excellent' ones.....

I can't really take any credit for this as I'm just an administrator, but so far the contribution from players and voters has been excellent so far, hope everyone sticks around until the end, and please try and vote in as many matches as you can.

[alan nagsworth]

Pit the highest scoring losers against each other in a battle royale... to the death!

[ziggy starbucks]

when will the 2nd round draw be made, DT? I'm too excited to wait long.

I'm hoping to give jutl or cardinal tit storm a thorough pasting

[Derek Trucks]

Call me old-fashioned but I do think we should clear up this round first before doing the draw for the 2nd.  By my reckoning we have only got 5 matches and a total of 8 shots left, so it won't be long at all, I'm very impressed in which most of you got through this round.  But everyone seemingly agreed to the 72 hour rule, so as long as the stragglers don't break that I'll let them continue without the danger of their games getting lost to 2nd matches happening at the same time.

[weekender]

In the rare event that I qualify as a highest loser, please note that I wish to play because I think I've thought of an idea which is utterly inspired.

Failing that, which bit of my first picture did Fry use in his first shot anyway?

[Small Man Big Horse]

According to the rules, the link can now be conceptual as well and doesn't have to actually feature part of the preceeding picture. Even though I think that's just plain wrong. Nice try though!

[weekender]

Oh, 'conceptually', that's alright then.  I can argue anything as a 'concept'.

[Derek Trucks]

As far as I'm aware the 'conceptual' rule has always existed.  At least it did in 2005 on the one match I took part it (no, I'm not bitter).

By my reckoning voting on the last game finishes at half 4 Thursday, so I'll do the draw for the 2nd round sometime that night.

[Fry]

Hey, stop this weekender! I won fair and square!
Don't make me get physical!

[weekender]

Sorry Fry, I just can't help that I want to get physical with you.

Let's kiss.

[Fry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmQiaSDr3nk
I'll be the one in the vest at the back.

[Eight Taiwanese Teenagers]

What scores do the losers have so far? I'm too wasted to count by myself.

[DocDaneeka]

Anyone else think the voting time is a bit long?  Since there will be less matches in the other rounds, we could shorten it to 24hrs.