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March 29, 2024, 02:06:33 AM

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"Chavs" ruined my morning.

Started by Borboski, April 22, 2004, 10:34:08 AM

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Borboski

In my past I've been pretty offended by websites like chavscum, arguing if they're not racist they may as well be because they attach so many stereotypes to an imagined cultural and class group. It's bothered me immensely that there's such a middle-class backlash against people are who poorly paid/socially excluded first, and how many of these are rude or aggressive its impossible to say. Plus there's rude and aggressive people throughout society.

Except my threshold for this kind of behaviour today was broken on the bus to work. A group of four, two lads two girls, who were clearly no older than 14, started threatening this bloke who could quite certainly have filled them in and hounded him off the bus. Then as a passed them as we get off, between one trying to elbow in a bus sign, screamed at me, "Oi Lanky - Look 'ow facking big ee is!" - Again, I am massive compared to these little oiks!

Sweary, monkey faced, shellsuit wearing, malnourished, agressive, mock rude boy oiks. Intimidating everyone on the bus. Fulfilling every one of those lazy prejudices chavscum propagate.

But it struck me there just is no recourse. This poor bloke that they hounded off couldn't have struck them - of course he shouldn't anyway, but they're children! 14 year olds. Except, if he had, I don't think anyone would have stopped him, unless he got out of control, and I doubt few would agree to provide a statement against him.

So what's the inevitable backlash? They do themselves no favours - turning people tory, meaning less benefits and social inclusion schemes - but then it's middle class society and the respectable working classes that have to put up with all the crime and anti-social behaviour.

But can anyone percieve well-dressed clans of vigilantes sorting these delinquents out?

So there that's my rant over.

smoker

i'm the same as you, i always consider "chavs" to be just another section of society, with some bad apples in it like every other section. i imagine there are plenty of burberry-cap wearing teenagers who like nothing more than reading a good book or going for a walk in the countryside.

but then in the last few weeks i've had two incidents, which i won't go into, that have led to my patience with "chavs" being sorely tested to breaking point

a little more respect and tolerance is needed on both sides i think to maintain equilibrium

Dirty Boy

It's difficult to try not to absolutely detest these kids isn't it? It's usually just dickheads trying to impress their mates i find, if you see them on their own they usually just stick their head down and gob on the ground.I find it more distressing seeing them verbally abuse someone who then becomes visibly upset, i've seen it happen too many times and it makes me dispair, maybe 'cos i was never one to hang around on street corners while chewing the face off some ugly cunt with her hair scraped right back, giving shit to people for no reason.I found more enjoyable, less personally threatening takes on mischeif.

Quotea little more respect and tolerance is needed on both sides i think to maintain equilibrium

On their side too?, bit presumptous maybe, just pray someone gives 'em a good kicking at some point

hencole

I would point out that Chavs, Neds whatever you want to call them are not to be identified purely on social class and economic status. They transcend boundaries. I live in an affluent prodominatly middle class area, and the chavs you get there are not always the poor and poorly educated. They are also the sons of doctors and lawyers who seem to take no interest in what their kids do of an evening or the fact they seem unable to talk properly. It's a culture not a social class, though I would say it is more likely to consist of the poorer, and less educated.

I think you should be able to give them a thump, but it isn't worth it as you get in big trouble hitting a minor. They are above the law, which is reasonable to a certain extent as teenagers are slaves to their hormones to acertain extent. Still a good beating everynow and then would keep those said hormones in check.

Borboski

My girlfriend's a teacher, and is seriously considering leaving the profession, not because of the massive workload, just because she doesn't like the children she has to deal with.

She just finds so many of them are so angry, and distrustful. It's quite clear they don't want to be there learning french, and after so many months of this, you understandably think "Why am I wasting my time trying to help you be productive positive people?"

That comment by the Head of Headteachers Union about the Thatcher generation has some truth - although I assume it was a sociological statement rather than an explicitally political one - but it just seems so many parents aren't taking responsibility.

My mums an infant teacher in Nottingham, and most of her 7 and 8 year olds have TV's in their room which they fall asleep to. They all watch Bo Selecta etc and make that silly Ee-hee! noise.

Did you see that toss of a lad last night who burnt himself copying a Jackass skit? The parents called for the show to be banned. Are these people biologically inferior?

She opened her comments with
"You could say we should have more control over them and stop watching it" - and which point she should have stopped burbling on. Jackass is only ever on at 11.30pm it said!"

I don't know, can't we send them all to Madagascar or something?

hencole

Send them to WAR!!! See how tought they are then. Not very.

Uncle_Z

I have no evidence of chavvery, but I wil hijack for a general rant.  Some cunt has shot my conservatory window with an air rifle (Thankfully quite a robust laminate so the seal has not been broken.  You'll all no doubt be pleased to hear that).  Probably shooting at pigeons of course but that's not the fecking point.

Last year it was vodka-pop kids ripping lumps off my fence and fighting each other with them.

Tolerance...levels...critical.

Geej

Ahh - the call for vigilante-ism from the educated!  

William S Burroughs once proposed the start of a secret vigilante group "The League of Gray Gentlemen", who armed with lead weighted canes and Gray Suits would bring order back where the police failed.  I see lippy mouthed chav scum as a prime example of his proposed targets.

A swift beating when young should sort them out - except it probably wouldn't.  Ignorace can be combatted by education - stupidity can't.

Prolescum (as a general term) have always been around in one form or another, and always will be.  Those who have nothing (or little) to lose, and owe nothing to society as a whole will act that way.

We could bring in an enforcable class system and shove these kids up chimneys, but that is hardly modern thinking.

A Clockwork Orange showed such a group of unprivelaged youth and the effects of society trying to solve the problem.  ie they didn't.

My own opinion is that Society has to be made up of a variety of groups in order to operate properly.  The troublesome lower class teenager has always been around, and is a part of this society.  The best way to combat this is to find and encourage better role models than the ones presently available.

Where are the modern day Daley Thompsons?

Perhaps we should try and force Chavs to split off into seperate groups in order to lessen their effect on us all.

EDIT to say : We are all starting to sound like my racist Grandparents aren't we?

Borboski

Absolutely about role models - but how do we get them? We're all so post modern these days, and when I say that I mean the bitches brew of consumerism, celebrity, reality tv, mass media, sexualistion of popular culture means it's so hard for a daley thompson to exist.

Look at Mnsr Beckham, doing his bit for matrimony.

All the things that keep "underclasses"/"social excluded" people nice and content and not causing trouble - Religion, Class, War, genuine poverty have been undermined.

Is this the price we pay for a permissive liberal democracy? Like like it. All that is solid melts into air right?

I think a solution is a genuine approach to citizenship in schools. But even the teachers don't believe in that.

hencole

Vigilanteeism is different from dealing with a situation there and then rather than plotting a groups downfall. I once knew some people at my college who I would describe as new age mods. They liked nothing better than to go out to Kingston Upon Thame (the official capital of the surburban shite) with weapons and pick a large group of Gary's as they are called in the local area. They were as big a bunch of angry pricks as the chavs if not worse.

Purple Tentacle

Quote from: "hencole"Send them to WAR!!! See how tought they are then. Not very.

Or kick them off a cliff.

hencole

Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"
Quote from: "hencole"Send them to WAR!!! See how tought they are then. Not very.

Or kick them off a cliff.

Aren't any cliffs in Kingston. besides the bloke was a 30+ year old pikey not a teen chav. Calls for different means of attack.

zozman

I was thinking of starting a similar thread called "Marauding Death Squads - are they the answer?"  to discuss whether we should just shoot these fuckers in the head.  I know this might seem just a touch (ahem) right-wing, but the sheer stupidity and undiluted aggresion of some of these people is astonishing.  Maybe a less extreme idea is to sterilise anyone who wears (males) tracky bottoms tucked into their socks and a burberry cap, or (females) sovereign rings, big hoopy ear-rings or (god heaven forbid) one of those alarming gold clown things on a necklace.

Mr Flunchy

Living in Salford, or chav central, you become acclimatised to them very quickly.  

Why, just this February the Students and Scallies forgot their differences and had a big snowball fight in the streets.  In the end we shared a joint with them.  It was like Christmas in World War 1.  

They're not all bad, although of course there's some proper cunts among them.  Just give them back as good as you get, and you'll generally be ok.

Lord Spong

I know plenty of 'chavs'.  Some of them are perfectly reasonable, intelligent and generous people, who just have the misfortune of being born in dodgy areas to dodgy families, and I'm happy to call them my friends.

On the other hand, a great many of them are wankers.  It's like hencole said, stupidity isn't divided simply on social and economic terms.  The problem is, that a lot of people are just thick, no matter what their background is.

Krang

Quote from: "Geej"
Prolescum (as a general term) have always been around in one form or another, and always will be.  Those who have nothing (or little) to lose, and owe nothing to society as a whole will act that way.

My own opinion is that Society has to be made up of a variety of groups in order to operate properly.  The troublesome lower class teenager has always been around, and is a part of this society.  The best way to combat this is to find and encourage better role models than the ones presently available.

EDIT to say : We are all starting to sound like my racist Grandparents aren't we?

Society needs a variety of groups to operate properly, but does it need a group with, as you say, little or nothing to offer?

Theres a merger of the middle class and the working class, and standards of living are improving. I dont the sort of rant in this thread can be compared to racism, apart from perhaps a slightly unfair stereotype that if you wear a tracksuit in public, you are a townie twat.

elderford

Quoteapart from perhaps a slightly unfair stereotype that if you wear a tracksuit in public, you are a townie twat.

I must disagree. I was brought up to believe that people who wore tracksuits/shellsuits when not tracking or shelling were too lazy to dress properly.

I like a man to wear proper trousers. I always get  the impression that elasticated waistbands encourage unecessary testicle adjustment.

Trousers promote discretion.

Jaffa The Cake

Quote from: "smoker"i always consider "chavs" to be just another section of society, with some bad apples in it like every other section. i imagine there are plenty of burberry-cap wearing teenagers who like nothing more than reading a good book or going for a walk in the countryside.
Anyone who thinks is welcome to come on a night out with me, in my Uni's town of Middlesbrough, and see how wrong they are. It's not racist, because they weren't born like that, it's part of a life choice they made. The stereotype of a charver is a criminal, with little respect for others. Why would anyone mimic this type of person, unless they aspire to be the stereotype?

Charvers are the scum of the Earth, and they're the type of people who make me wish pregnancies required licences. Many get pregnant before they're 16, have absolutely no idea how to raise a child due to their own upbringing, therefore they raise another charver, and so the cycle continues.

Middlesbrough has massive ethnic communities, and a high crime rate. You see fights every night, and people getting arrested up town for stealing, every one of them is a white charver.

Been attacked twice in Middlesbrough, both times by gangs of charvers. And from what I hear from the southerners in my house, the Charver 'infection' is spreading that way too.

TraceyQ

No, I think you're wrong with them being exclusively white. The asian kid who mugged me last week was a charver, tongues sticking up on his trainers, the lot.

Jaffa The Cake

I wasn't speaking for the country, just my experiences in Middlesbrough & Carlisle.

One mistake we're all making is refering to charver kids... ever met a charver adult? They're 10 times worse. I've met adults who used to be charvers, and they're ok, it's the ones that never quite grew out of it that are a problem.

TraceyQ

Do they know they're chavs? Do they know we feel sorry for them at the same time being slightly afraid of the fact we can't predict what their backwards brains will do next?

Jaffa The Cake

Quote from: "TraceyQ"Do they know they're chavs?
Yes they do, because 'charver' is a charver word, or at least it used to be. That's what they used to describe each other, the derogatory term I grew up with was "scally"

Krang

I did come across some adult chavs, and i posted about it on here, they were in their 30's id say, with pushchairs, all stood outside tesco sharing a jumbo bottle of blue WKD.

Borboski

Quote from: "TraceyQ"Do they know they're chavs? Do they know we feel sorry for them at the same time being slightly afraid of the fact we can't predict what their backwards brains will do next?

Is does confuse me - that they must look at the material possession that middle class 'nice' people have and then look at themselves. It's a genuine sub-culture - I don't see that fashion anywhere in the media. There aren't any of this type on Eastenders or Corrie...

The girls in particular. They must look at clean, attractive, well fed, nicely cut hair girls walking around and think - what? "Arrggh, what a tosser, I'm off to JD Sports to get an ill fitting green shell suit, then off to argos to get some massive gold hoop earings, then off to the newsies for some fags."

And the lads. These people are clearly materialistic because they put so much effort into a certain look. When I worked for the police there was a young lad in a cell who was chatting away to me about his baseball cap, that cost £50 and had to be imported from the states. And it was a shit hat!

But unlike most socially deprived groups it doesn't seem to bubble up into any organised representation - just generally anger and resentment towards society.

Oh dear. I will stop this prejudice tommorow. It's just tough to keep thinking of these people as 'victims' when confronted with an individual.

The Bejesus

My response of choice is something along the lines of (and keep it simple, use any big words and they'll just call you gay):  

Give them a look that shows them you think they are little better than dog dirt then say "look at the state of you. listen to how you talk.  look at your clothes.   can't you see you are complete scum?  i bet its your parents fault but there's no hope for you either".

Then the options are two fold:  

a) walk off smug and impressed with yourself

b) run really fast as suddenly 20 of them appear and try to maim you

Krang

Quotethere was a young lad in a cell who was chatting away to me about his baseball cap, that cost £50 and had to be imported from the states. And it was a shit hat!

Or perhaps, like most chavs, he was chatting dick, and had nicked it from JD Sports.

Jaffa The Cake

Got this text from a friend back home, made me laugh...

QuoteGrrr, on a bus and it's full of charvers. One of the girl charvers just said how she wanted to have 6 kids, her boyfriend looked petrified. Dunno why, it's not like he's gonna be the father of them all.

sproggy

Quote from: "Krang"
Society needs a variety of groups to operate properly, but does it need a group with, as you say, little or nothing to offer?

Even Pikeys need people to look down on.  These 'chavs' you speak of are the sticky back plastic lining in the kitchen drawer of life.

At the end of the day, everybody likes to feel superior in one form or another, no matter how liberal one professes their views to be.

Krang

But all they do is look down on society, so why should they be included as a part of it?

by the way, all this is warming me up nicely for my Sociology mock exam on "The Family", ill still do shit though.

smoker

Quote from: "Borboski"There aren't any of this type on Eastenders or Corrie...

martin fowler
cat and lyn slater
zoe and kelly
tyrone
fizz
the stupid bloke
the battersbys

charvs, the lot of em