Author Topic: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)  (Read 2195 times)

alan nagsworth

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Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2008, 01:54:50 AM »
Because that's what he wanted to do? It seemed to me like an album born out of a local scene he was involved in, I don't think it was a conscious attempt at anything other than him just making the music he was into at that time.

Even so, it pretty much entirely loses its appeal when you consider that it emulates a lot of very popular gangsta rap music (albeit well-produced, but still) and was on the whole received as total shite. And then you've got his other stuff which was a really unique sound, especially Endtroducing which pioneered the whole genre, and it has a massive fanbase.

I'm not calling him a fool for trying mainstream appeal, infact I'm not even accusing him of doing so, but seriously The Outsider differs so much from his other work that he should have considered releasing it under a different name or simply kept it quiet and released it amongst this so-called local scene in which he was "involved". In my opinion, releasing music of different styles under different names is a great approach as it does not alienate your fanbase in the slightest, it's only a minor issue in the grand scheme of things but I think Davis could have done a lot better job of releasing and promoting The Outsider.

The name DJ Shadow is established as a trip-hop name with three or four LPs in that genre which refute this. The Outsider is literally outside the Shadow name and I believe that the album title is a smug reference to this, much like the interviews he gave regarding it.

chand

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Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2008, 10:48:37 AM »
Even so, it pretty much entirely loses its appeal when you consider that it emulates a lot of very popular gangsta rap music (albeit well-produced, but still) and was on the whole received as total shite. And then you've got his other stuff which was a really unique sound, especially Endtroducing which pioneered the whole genre, and it has a massive fanbase.

I'm not calling him a fool for trying mainstream appeal, infact I'm not even accusing him of doing so, but seriously The Outsider differs so much from his other work that he should have considered releasing it under a different name or simply kept it quiet and released it amongst this so-called local scene in which he was "involved". In my opinion, releasing music of different styles under different names is a great approach as it does not alienate your fanbase in the slightest, it's only a minor issue in the grand scheme of things but I think Davis could have done a lot better job of releasing and promoting The Outsider.

The name DJ Shadow is established as a trip-hop name with three or four LPs in that genre which refute this. The Outsider is literally outside the Shadow name and I believe that the album title is a smug reference to this, much like the interviews he gave regarding it.

He probably could have done it under a different name, yeah, but I'm not one for telling artists what they should do. I guess I feel slightly sorry for him, in that probably no matter what he does it's always going to be compared unfavourably to 'Endtroducing'. As indeed 'The Private Press' was; largely viewed as 6/10 or 7/10 album suffering in the, er, shadow of its predecessor. Ten years later he clearly had to do something different, and in a strange way I kind of like the fact that he did something slightly baffling and failed rather than releasing something a step on from 'The Private Press'.

I didn't share the outrage, I think largely because I kind of mentally seperated 'Endtroducing' from its creator, it just seems like a classic album and I don't really think anything else he does will change that, so he can do what he wants. Plus I'd always known him simultaneously for his work with Bay Area MCs so it didn't completely shock me when he got in with an emerging Bay Area hip-hop scene. I didn't have much of a problem with his justification:

Quote
I just sat down to make a record that reflected what I like and the type of music that I care about. Being from and living in the Bay Area, I sort of fell in to listening to Hyphy stuff, and it’s the most potent type of rap that the Bay Area has come up with since the early 90s. So it was really exciting when it came along and rather than do what I would probably have done in the past and go ‘well gee, I’m a guy who mainly works with samples, so I guess this is just gonna pass me by,’ I embraced it.

Whether it failed as a hyphy album I'm not sure. I enjoyed it briefly but I'd be lying if I said I'd put it on recently, and I'll clearly never go back to it as often as 'Endtroducing'. There were bits of excitement in there and some interesting ideas, but it was generally patchy and messy, with some very dodgy tracks towards the end and some half-hearted rock excursions.

Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2008, 11:53:01 AM »
The Orb "Pomme Fritz".

That was a piss take surely?

Back to the original post, the release of Adam & The Ants "Ant Rap" at the time seemed like a demented move on Mr Goddard's part, but one that worked (well I bought it). Surely "Puss In Boots" was the point though where the plot had well and truly been lost. A year off and you come back with that? With Phil Collins on production (cue over the top drums)?

23 Daves

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Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2008, 12:33:43 PM »
Back to the original post, the release of Adam & The Ants "Ant Rap" at the time seemed like a demented move on Mr Goddard's part, but one that worked (well I bought it). Surely "Puss In Boots" was the point though where the plot had well and truly been lost. A year off and you come back with that? With Phil Collins on production (cue over the top drums)?

I think the plot was completely lost circa the "Friend or Foe" album, in all honesty.  Before that point, the band had always had a new wave/ punk edge which stopped them from being a pop band resorting to cheap and dirty tricks and gimmicks to get sales.  Without the added angular clutter, Adam Ant made pop music that was actually rather dull.  He seemed to think his knack for catchy ditties was his biggest strength, whereas in actual fact it was his ability to combine those with something much more art-school and irregular which made his best material brilliant, memorable and (to this day) completely unlike anything else out there.  I've read critics on numerous occasions saying that he seemed unable to think of ways of progressing his original blueprint, and could seemingly only opt for watering it down, and that unfortunately seems to be true.  It's a pity he didn't embrace synthesisers and samplers in a harsh, clattering Art of Noise type way, which is something I can very easily have imagined him doing, and wouldn't actually have been such a mad departure from the existing tribal sound.  Did Trevor Horn never have the urge to have a word in his ear?

I've got a soft spot for "Apollo 9", mind you.

Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2008, 01:41:28 PM »
Yeah, "Apollo 9" was great, but that was a blip. You're probably right about the whole "Goody Two Shoes"/"Friend Or Foe" farrago. At that point the pantoline (see what I did there?) had been crossed with no prospect of a return to the new wave sensibilities. Still, we should have seen it coming, with Adam's "Jolly Roger" being a bit Tenpole Tudor. Alas I was 11 at the time and had no sense of what's cool or not and therefore loved it all.

23 Daves

  • Break a leg!
    • Left and to the Back
Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2008, 02:39:24 PM »
Yeah, "Apollo 9" was great, but that was a blip. You're probably right about the whole "Goody Two Shoes"/"Friend Or Foe" farrago. At that point the pantoline (see what I did there?) had been crossed with no prospect of a return to the new wave sensibilities. Still, we should have seen it coming, with Adam's "Jolly Roger" being a bit Tenpole Tudor. Alas I was 11 at the time and had no sense of what's cool or not and therefore loved it all.

I loved it as a child as well.  What got me back into their earlier material again as an adult was finding a copy of "Kings of the Wild Frontier" on battered vinyl around a friends house (he was having a clear-out at the time), putting it on for "a laugh", then suddenly realising with horror that it was actually a really good album, and I should probably have never stopped listening to it.  He was going to throw it out but drew the same conclusion as me, and moved it from the loft back into his proper collection.

By the time you get into "Prince Charming" territory there really are parts of his output that have appeal to eighties minors only, however. I don't care if I never hear that bloody single again.

Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2008, 03:43:16 PM »

By the time you get into "Prince Charming" territory there really are parts of his output that have appeal to eighties minors only, however. I don't care if I never hear that bloody single again.

I used to be of this opinion, but it's a still a really good single, but you just have to get fucking Alexander Armstrong and his Pimms advert out of your mind. I remember getting the "Prince Charming" album for my 11th birthday, and even then I thought it was a bit patchy (and the sleeve is shit). The album version of "AntRap" is poor as well. "Kings" on the other hand is a veritable popfest, "Killer In The Home" and "Making History" being a couple of great tracks from memory. Mine came with a book (of sorts) as I remember.

Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2008, 08:11:01 PM »
I was given all three of the Mansun albums.  'Little Kix' is the only one I've played more than once, despite everyone saying how shit it is.  I suppose I'm not meant to like them.

Tokyo Sexwhale

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Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2008, 11:45:56 PM »
What were The Wannadies thinking with this?

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWUqB9UnXbo[/youtube]

Re: What the fuck have they done?! (Or: Changes of Tack)
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2008, 06:28:13 PM »
I'm still not sure that's not just a terrible song as opposed to a terrible change in direction for The Wannadies.  I actually remember quite liking the album that comes from, although I always tend to skip the track in question.
Still, no matter what they do, they'll never beat the 'Be A Girl'/'Shorty' days.