Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 07:33:03 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Stasi-watch

Started by biggytitbo, August 27, 2008, 01:05:33 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

What do we want? AIDS FOUNTAIN! When do we want it?

Now!
8 (25.8%)
Yesterday
0 (0%)
Tommorrow
0 (0%)
We're here, we're politicians and we want ID cards next Wednesday they'll be FABULOUS
10 (32.3%)
Within a feasable timescale outlined by Her Majesty's Government
6 (19.4%)
Just in time for the rapture please, it'll make it so much easier for God to sort us all out.
7 (22.6%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Tina Lombardi

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 06, 2008, 07:19:31 PM
No they won't do that, it'd be an own goal. What they'll do, or are doing more accurately, is make sure you can't do anything without ID. They'll just bully everyone into compliance - you'll be left with no choice if you want to live.

It's been done on a small scale with Oyster cards hasn't it? It costs more to use London Transport if you choose to pay cash and travel anonymously, rather than surrender your personal information and travel data.

biggytitbo


biggytitbo

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/government-black-boxes-will-collect-every-email-992268.html

QuoteInternet "black boxes" will be used to collect every email and web visit in the UK under the Government's plans for a giant "big brother" database, The Independent has learnt.

Plans to create a database holding information about every phone call, email and internet visit made in the UK have provoked a huge public outcry. Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, described it as "step too far" and the Government's own terrorism watchdog said that as a "raw idea" it was "awful".

glitch

That's the same story as a couple of weeks ago, surely?

Omerta

Correction

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 08, 2008, 08:45:04 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/government-black-boxes-will-collect-every-email-992268.html

Internet "black boxes" will be used to collect every email and web visit in the UK under the Government's plans for a giant "big brother" database, The Independent has learnt.

Plans to create a database holding information about every phone call, email and internet visit made in the UK have provoked huge public celebration. Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, described it as "the greatest thing ever" and the Government's own terrorism watchdog said that "people have been coming to me demanding their phonecalls be spied on sooner rather than later."



hoverdonkey

We're being asked to bring our passports into work this week to prove our right to work.

biggytitbo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3413951/Media-could-face-reporting-ban-on-issues-of-national-security.html

QuotePlans for the security services and police to be given new legally-binding powers to ban the media from reporting matters of national security are being drawn up, it was claimed today.

That could have saved a lot of embarrassment after the De Menezes execution!

Obviously if they get these powers they'll be used only in the most serious and genuine threats to our national securtity and not just to cover up anything they don't want us to know about!

biggytitbo

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/11/met_police_live_music_terror_trawl/

QuoteA dozen London boroughs have implemented a "risk assessment" policy for live music that permits the police to ban any live music if they fail to receive personal details from the performers 14 days in advance. The demand explicitly singles out performances and musical styles favoured by the black community: garage and R&B, and MCs and DJs.

QuoteUK Music chief Feargal Sharkey told a House of Commons select committee that the policy had already been used to pull the plug on an afternoon charity concert of school bands in a public park organised by a local councillor.

"No alcohol would be sold, tickets were limited to three maximum, and the councillor offered to supply eight registered doormen. Police objected on the grounds that the names, addresses and dates of birth of the young performer could not be provided," said Sharkey, speaking to the Department of Culture Media and Sport's hearing on venue licensing today.

glitch

What kind of gig is it where there are only three tickets?

biggytitbo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3417036/Roadside-snack-vans-threatened-unless-they-offer-healthy-food.html
Quote
Roadside vans offering greasy snacks will be shut down if they fail to offer healthier alternatives, according to new rules.
What the fuck has this got to do with anyone except the burger van and its customers?

biggytitbo

Bizarre site - http://yes2id.blogspot.com/

Particularly like the poll, where the only options are:

- 'Can't wait for ID cards'
- 'I have nothing to hide'
- 'We need ID Cards'

Tina Lombardi

Controversial 'Orwellian' council staff scanners are scrapped

QuoteCONTROVERSIAL fingerprinting scanners that were branded "Orwellian" by staff will be removed from a council department following a blitz of criticism.
The U-turn has been celebrated by union members, who fought a dogged campaign against the biometric scanners, refusing to give up their fingerprints after the machines were installed in the Community Protection Department at the end of August.
The scanners were brought in without consultation to monitor staff working hours, but were never turned on.

biggytitbo

Good article here about the BBCs bizarre reporting of ID cards - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/14/bbc_stories_cant_wait/


biggytitbo

#74
The shadow Immigration secretary has been arrested - http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Immigration-Leak-Shadow-Immigration-Secretary-Damian-Green-Arrested-Under-Official-Secrets-Act/Article/200811415163745?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15163745_Immigration_Leak%3A_Shadow_Immigration_Secretary_Damian_Green_Arrested_Under_Official_Secrets_Act
Quote
Shadow immigration minister Damian Green was arrested today under the Official Secrets Act for allegedly leaking information to the media.
Seemingly for revealing information in the public interest that the home office didn't want released. This is absolutely scandalous isn't it? It's the sort of thing you'd expect in Zimbabwe or Russia. Especially since the home office and this government are continually leaking information themselves for political advantage.


QuoteLeaked info includes: illegal immigrants being given security industry clearance. Jacquie Smith warning that recession could lead to an increase in violent crime. These leaks were 'damaging' to the government.

QuoteSources close to the Shadow Cabinet today suggested that a police investigation into such a high-ranking politician would have to have been cleared "at the very top".

One insider described the action as "Stalinesque... unprecedented in its high-handedness".


Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 09:26:26 PMSeemingly for revealing information in the public interest that the home office didn't want released. This is absolutely scandalous isn't it? It's the sort of thing you'd expect in Zimbabwe or Russia. Especially since the home office and this government are continually leaking information themselves for political advantage.
Christ, you really are just a mouthpiece for the Tory Party these days aren't you?

biggytitbo

Quote from: Still Not George on November 27, 2008, 09:56:42 PM
Christ, you really are just a mouthpiece for the Tory Party these days aren't you?

You think this is OK? For fuck sake. An opposition politician arrested under anti terror laws for revealing the Jacqui Smith thinks that the recession might lead to more crime. For fuck sake get over yourselves. This is absolutely unacceptable and nothing to do with shitty party politics.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/3532133/Tory-minister-Damian-Green-arrested-under-the-Official-Secrets-Acts.html
Quote
Mr Green, who is the shadow immigration minister, was arrested at his home in Kent by counter-terrorism police officers.

The arrest follows a series of leaks to the Conservatives about Government policy, including a sensitive memorandum from the Home Office's most senior official on crime figures earlier this month.

It is claimed that nine counter-terrorism officers were involved in the arrest.

Yet this man



is allowed to continually reveal commercially sensitive inside information direct from the treasury that potentially costs people billions of pounds.


Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 10:01:59 PM
You think this is OK? For fuck sake. An opposition politician arrested
... and questioned without charge. He's not in Guantanamo Bay is he? Not to mention that you're putting this into a thread entitled "Stasi-watch", you sensationalising twat.
Quoteunder anti terror laws for revealing the Jacqui Smith thinks that the recession might lead to more crime.
... and for revealing the name of an illegal immigrant worker to the press, and for releasing a list of MPs along with politically sensitive information, both of which are cunts tricks of the absolute highest order. Personally I'm happy for them to throw the fucking book at him.

QuoteFor fuck sake get over yourselves. This is absolutely unacceptable and nothing to do with shitty party politics.
Which is of course why you've quoted a Murdoch TV and a Torygraph story on the subject, both of which basically repeat verbatim the Tory Party press release on the subject.

Still Not George

Oh, and he wasn't arrested under anti-terror laws, it was under the OSA. Remember that? It's been around for a few years now. Can't remember what it's about, I think it's something related to releasing sensitive information to the public. Feel like taking up the torch for all of the hundreds of people prosecuted under it during the last few decades?

biggytitbo

Quote from: Still Not George on November 27, 2008, 10:05:21 PM
... and questioned without charge. He's not in Guantanamo Bay is he? Not to mention that you're putting this into a thread entitled "Stasi-watch", you sensationalising twat.... and for revealing the name of an illegal immigrant worker to the press, and for releasing a list of MPs along with politically sensitive information, both of which are cunts tricks of the absolute highest order. Personally I'm happy for them to throw the fucking book at him.
Which is of course why you've quoted a Murdoch TV and a Torygraph story on the subject, both of which basically repeat verbatim the Tory Party press release on the subject.

Absolute bollocks. This sort of thing is standard procedure for both parties as you well know. This government in particular have turned the political leak into an art form. Who the fucks leaking this stuff in the first place Still Not George? Who do you think eh? The idea that in a democratic country in the 21st century that opposition politicians are arrested under anti terror laws for revealing legitimate information to the electorate is fucking obsene and you absolutely should be ashamed of yourself for even contemplating defending this bullshit. So blinded by party political fervor you'll defend the indefensible you utter twat.

Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 10:11:57 PM
Absolute bollocks. This sort of thing is standard procedure for both parties as you well know. This government in particular have turned the political leak into an art form. Who the fucks leaking this stuff in the first place Still Not George?
Probably the Home Office aide who was arrested a little while ago for leaking official documents. Which would be why Green has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring with and abetting/procuring the proceeds of "misconduct in public office", which by an amazing coincidence is what the first guy was actually charged with.

QuoteThe idea that in a democratic country in the 21st century that opposition politicians are arrested under anti terror laws...
Stop right there. It's the OSA, you dipshit. It's not anti-terror legislation. It's been around for decades. Every country has one. Get a fucking grip.

QuoteSo blinded by party political fervor you'll defend the indefensible you utter twat.
Wait, what? Which party do you think I support, biggy?

biggytitbo

Quote from: Still Not George on November 27, 2008, 10:19:03 PM
Probably the Home Office aide who was arrested a little while ago for leaking official documents. Which would be why Green has been arrested on suspicion of conspiring with and abetting/procuring the proceeds of misconduct in public office, which by an amazing coincidence what the first guy was actually charged with.
Stop right there. It's the OSA, you dipshit. It's not anti-terror legislation. It's been around for decades. Every country has one. Get a fucking grip.
Wait, what? Which party do you think I support, biggy?

Sorry, every single paper I've read from the guardian to the times say he was arrested by counter terrorism police. 9 counter terrorism police to be exact. 9 counter terrorism police to arrest one man?

Here's what he was allegedly involved with leaking:

• A home office memo, which appeared in the Daily Mail on 13 November 2007, which showed that the home secretary Jacqui Smith had been warned four months earlier that thousands of illegal immigrants had been cleared to work in sensitive Whitehall security jobs. The memo emerged days after the Sunday Mirror disclosed that at least 5,000 illegal immigrants had been cleared by the Security Industry Authority to work sensitive Whitehall locations.

• An email to the then home office minister Liam Byrne in February this year which showed that he was informed about an illegal Brazillian immigrant who faked an identity pass to workin parliament. The memo, which was published in the Sunday Telegraph on 10 February this year, said Byrne was informed on 31 January. Byrne was accused of a cover up.

• A list of Labour MPs who were likely yo rebel against the government's plans to detain terror suspects for up t0 42 days without charge. This appeared in the Sunday Times on 20 April 2008.

• A letter from Jacqui Smith to Gordon Brown warning that a recession would lead to a rise in crime. This appeared in wll papers, including the Guardian, on 1 September this year.

All legitimate public interest stories. Do you think journalists should be arrested for revealing stuff the government doesn't like Still Not George? Or just tories you utter turd? Lets just arrest everyone who disagrees with the current government eh? I'm just utterly stunned your defending this. What on earth are you  thinking? If this sort of thing becomes standard practice the electorate would know absolutely fuck all about what the government is up to.

Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 10:24:51 PM
Sorry, every single paper I've read from the guardian to the times say he was arrested by counter terrorism police. 9 counter terrorism police to be exact. 9 counter terrorism police to arrest one man?
Counter-terrorism police != counter-terrorism laws, you dipshit. PAY FUCKING ATTENTION instead of just yelling "STALIN!" and quoting right-wing news sites.

Yeah, it's quite likely the police completely overdid it. They've been doing that a lot for a long time. I bamlem Thatcher for starting it. Still doesn't mean he was arrested under counter-terrorism laws.


QuoteAll legitimate public interest stories. Do you think journalists should be arrested for revealing stuff the government doesn't like Still Not George? Or just tories you utter turd? Lets just arrest everyone who disagrees with the current government eh? I'm just utterly stunned your defending this. What on earth are you  thinking? If this sort of thing becomes standard practice the electorate would know absolutely fuck all about what the government is up to.
He broke the fucking law. More to the point the guy who leaked a bunch of personal fucking memos broke the law, and implicated Green in the process. There's ways of doing this sort of thing that don't break the law and that have been used successfully by all political parties for centuries. Do you not get that? He stole actual personal bloody memos for political reasons! Stole the actual pieces of bloody paper! That's not politics as usual, is it? That's a fucking crime. People have been arrested for doing this sort of thing before, in case you haven't realised, and they will be again.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Still Not George on November 27, 2008, 10:31:04 PM
Counter-terrorism police != counter-terrorism laws, you dipshit. PAY FUCKING ATTENTION instead of just yelling "STALIN!" and quoting right-wing news sites.

Yeah, it's quite likely the police completely overdid it. They've been doing that a lot for a long time. I bamlem Thatcher for starting it. Still doesn't mean he was arrested under counter-terrorism laws.

He broke the fucking law. More to the point the guy who leaked a bunch of personal fucking memos broke the law, and implicated Green in the process. There's ways of doing this sort of thing that don't break the law and that have been used successfully by all political parties for centuries. Do you not get that? He stole actual personal bloody memos for political reasons! Stole the actual pieces of bloody paper! That's not politics as usual, is it? That's a fucking crime. People have been arrested for doing this sort of thing before, in case you haven't realised, and they will be again.


Ohh right wing right wing yawn. Come on George, see beyond this tedious right wing/left wing balls. My last post was a big quote directly from that well known right wing newspaper the guardian. This is nothing to do with right/left. I don't care who it is or what their politics are, revealing embarrassing government information that's in the public interest is absolutely the duty of journalists and opposition politicians and when they're getting arrested by armed counter terrorism police we're getting into really really dangerous territory. And are you actually suggesting Green personally stole, or personally ordered documents be stolen? What's the source for that?

wheatgod

Scrap all politics, and lets all just get along.

Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 10:47:07 PM. And are you actually suggesting Green personally stole, or personally ordered documents be stolen? What's the source for that?
I'm suggesting he's been arrested on suspicion of procuring the proceeds of misconduct in public office and that he had the actual paper documents. Admittedly my previous post does make it look as though he personally stole it, which isn't true, and I'm not going to comment on whether he personally ordered documents be stolen because that's for the police to decide. Which they're going to do because what he's been arrested for is not "embarrassing the Government", it's

breaking the fucking law

which untold numbers of people of all political stripes have managed to embarrass New Labour without getting arrested for. Odd, eh?

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 10:47:07 PM
Ohh right wing right wing yawn. Come on George, see beyond this tedious right wing/left wing balls. My last post was a big quote directly from that well known right wing newspaper the guardian.
Wrong! It's almost identical to that in nearly every other newspaper report, which means it's almost certainly from Reuters, and it's completely fucking meaningless. What's important is that your actual links are both to articles which solely reference the Tory Party's opinion on the matter.

biggytitbo

#86
Quote from: Still Not George on November 27, 2008, 10:56:49 PM
I'm suggesting he's been arrested on suspicion of procuring the proceeds of misconduct in public office and that he had the actual paper documents. Admittedly my previous post does make it look as though he personally stole it, which isn't true, and I'm not going to comment on whether he personally ordered documents be stolen because that's for the police to decide. Which they're going to do because what he's been arrested for is not "embarrassing the Government", it's

breaking the fucking law

which untold numbers of people of all political stripes have managed to embarrass New Labour without getting arrested for. Odd, eh?
Wrong! It's almost identical to that in nearly every other newspaper report, which means it's almost certainly from Reuters, and it's completely fucking meaningless. What's important is that your actual links are both to articles which solely reference the Tory Party's opinion on the matter.

Well apparently he's still been questioned 8 hours after been arrested. So lets see what he's actually charged with. If its the old official secrets act excuse then we know this is pure politics. The idea that politicians releasing information that's embarrassing to the government but actually completely in the public interest coming under the official secrets act is ridiculous and dangerous. As everyone knows, the official secrets act should be called the 'official lets cover anything up that's embarrassing to us act'.

Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 27, 2008, 11:11:54 PM
Well apparently he's still been questioned 8 hours after been arrested. So lets see what he's actually charged with.

Annoying, admittedly - but being held overnight without charge happens to normal people too, so why should Tory politicians be any different?

QuoteIf its the old official secrets act excuse then we know this is pure politics. The idea that politicians releasing information that's embarrassing to the government but actually completely in the public interest coming under the official secrets act is ridiculous and dangerous. As everyone knows, the official secrets act should be called the 'official lets cover anything up that's embarrassing to us act'.

Right. That's exactly what it's for. Of course. Why didn't I think of that? But then, I didn't think to start a thread called "Stasi-watch" while living in one of the world's most liberal democracies.

biggytitbo

Quote from: Still Not George on November 28, 2008, 01:02:32 AM
Annoying, admittedly - but being held overnight without charge happens to normal people too, so why should Tory politicians be any different?

Right. That's exactly what it's for. Of course. Why didn't I think of that? But then, I didn't think to start a thread called "Stasi-watch" while living in one of the world's most liberal democracies.

Get over yourself mate. No one's arguing that we live in nazi germany quite yet, but all sorts of pretty worrying and disturbing things are happening in this country that should make all of us concerned. And this is definitely one of them, a pretty unprecedented incident were an opposition MP is arrested by anti terror police for actually doing his job and releasing information that comes into his possession thats 100% in the public interest. You ought to be praising him for doing his bit in making this country as liberal and open as you think it is. What's happened tonight is absolutely outrageous, and whilst smug party political drones like yourself pat yourself on the back about how liberal we are stuff like this and all the other things highlighted in this thread are seriously undermining this 'world's most liberal democracy' you speak of.

Still Not George

Quote from: biggytitbo on November 28, 2008, 01:24:34 AM
No one's arguing that we live in nazi germany quite yet, but all sorts of pretty worrying and disturbing things are happening in this country that should make all of us concerned.

And I'm sure many of us are - but that doesn't mean that we have to cleave quite so closely to whatever the Tories are spouting this week. It's quite amusing to me that you quote Sky News and the Telegraph's virtual reprints of the Tory Party press release and then have the gall to accuse me of playing politics.

QuoteAnd this is definitely one of them, a pretty unprecedented incident were an opposition MP is arrested by anti terror police for actually doing his job and releasing information that comes into his possession thats 100% in the public interest.

I would suggest perhaps 2 out of the list we've seen are in genuine public interest, and the others are in purely political interest. But more to the point, the suggestion of what he's been charged with (conspiracy to and procurement of the proceeds of misconduct in public office) is that he was involved in orchestrating and/or organising the leak, which in case you've forgotten, involved...

Breaking The Fucking Law

...which I'm told the police aren't keen on. You also still haven't engaged with the fact that this leaker (not Green, the Home Office spod) felt the need to actually break the law to leak, something that most leakers have managed to avoid for decades. Wonder why?

Perhaps it was because the likes of this:

Quote• A list of Labour MPs who were likely yo rebel against the government's plans to detain terror suspects for up t0 42 days without charge
Is fucking blatantly sensitive information. I mean, seriously, how can you consider that to not be a security risk? And the others are either icing on an already leaked cake, or directly filched documents that didn't need to be leaked in theri original form, and all of them breach the OSA by being released directly.

QuoteYou ought to be praising him for doing his bit in making this country as liberal and open as you think it is. What's happened tonight is absolutely outrageous, and whilst smug party political drones like yourself...
There you go again. Again I ask, which political party do you think I support?