Author Topic: "clever people"  (Read 3569 times)

"clever people"
« on: April 26, 2004, 02:54:54 PM »
so who wants to be in my gang and not have an id card then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3659355.stm

its like the blind leading..................

"clever people"
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2004, 03:01:25 PM »
I'll be in your gang.

Does carrying a fake ID card include teenagers who use them to buy alcohol?

"clever people"
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2004, 03:03:17 PM »
interesting  - what about a fake blockbuster card such as i possess for no good reason

"clever people"
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2004, 03:08:15 PM »
If there's a £2,500 fine for not carrying an ID card, then they'll only have to nab 1.2 million "clever people" and they'll have covered the £3bn cost of this whacky scheme.

"clever people"
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2004, 03:17:06 PM »
What happens if you're a British citizen who lives outside the UK? Will you need one to enter the country, or be required to get one while you're there?

"clever people"
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2004, 03:35:19 PM »
Hey, maybe it is to help keep track with with who's been in a reality show or who's turn is next.

 I'll join your gang!

chand

  • "like Louise Mensch but with a sexy beard"
    • https://twitter.com/RopesToInfinity
"clever people"
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2004, 03:39:11 PM »
Ooh, I like being forced to pay if I want to continue to exist.

So, what about people who visit from foreign countries? What if I lose my card?

"clever people"
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2004, 03:40:27 PM »
Apologies for being so dull, but can any explain to me why it is necessary to have:

Three different forms of ID, all of which will require biometric and personal information? (ID card, passport and driving licence)

Wouldn't this make the whole enterprise three times as expensive to administer and oversee?

fanny splendid

  • Chaos Reigns
"clever people"
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2004, 03:46:04 PM »
Imagine if the cards held your IP address, too?

Isn't it great that business will have access to all this information?

"clever people"
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2004, 03:55:49 PM »
It's a sad state of affairs when you want to punch a blind man isn't it?

"clever people"
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2004, 03:57:28 PM »
Quote from: "Lord Spong"
It's a sad state of affairs when you want to punch a blind man isn't it?


haha you don't actually believe he's blind do you?

"clever people"
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2004, 03:59:15 PM »
Well if he's not then his handwriting is a disgrace:


"clever people"
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2004, 04:01:18 PM »
You know you just get feelings about people? Like PLC said that he's convinced that Mel Gibson stinks?


For a long time I've had a feeling that Blunkett beats his dog really hard with his lead.


Carry on.

"clever people"
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2004, 04:02:30 PM »
the dog is blunkett, it's a ventriloquist. the beardy guy is just like the body that krang from tmnt walks round in, a shell, nothing more.

MojoJojo

  • Member
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  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
"clever people"
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2004, 04:08:37 PM »
Arrrghh, this is turning into a definate vote change for me.

And as seems to be the case now a days, the main opposition are in for it too.

This is ridiculous: biometrics technology is not at the stage where it can be relied on to be used for everyone. A recent report on biometric screening at airports suggested a compromise of 1 in 20 missed terrorists would yield 1 in a 1000 false positives - or 1 person on every 3 jumbo jets. Note that this high a error ratio means that it will be impossible to correctly identify if two entries in the database with the same biometric reading are the same person or not. Which sort of makes the entire thing fall apart somewhat, doesn't it.

And carrying the biometric information on the card is simply a way to hide the fact that its all tied to a central database. Simply having your iris scans on the card doesn't help any, since a well forged card would have your iris scans on it. To make it "unforgeable" they have to look it up on a central database, and if they do that there is no point in having your biometric data on the card. Or having the card at all, for that matter.

The idiocy of it makes me think Blunkett must have shares in a biometrics company.

Immigration: surely the problem isn't those we have records of, but those we don't.

War on terror: Once again, surely it isn't the terrorists we know that are the problem. And surely most terroists are coming from overseas anyway: if we can stop them, collect their dna or whatever, and then link them to whatever terrorist record we have of them from the CIA or whomever, then we can just stop them there.

And this is skipping over the civil liberties issue.

Sorry to rant. I'm tired, the air-conditioning's broke- no, hang on, we don't have air conditioning. It's very hot and I have lots of work to do.

"clever people"
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2004, 04:15:18 PM »
they should photoshop Blunkets ID card to show him made up like Pat Butcher, that would be a titter as he proudly handed it over*

or the cracking mong by poison popcorn that I use as an MSN avatar


 from the chronic caricature thread in the MM forum.

*how is this any different to Big Ron's snide comments

fat, black, blind, any physical trait etc

"clever people"
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2004, 04:23:18 PM »
Quote
Imagine if the cards held your IP address, too?



don't mock it.

the cabinet ffice last week has asked the office of e-envoy to table a scheme for 'smart-carding' all PC's in the near future.

its not in the news yet , and it may not go ahead, but as i am hoping to get a job in the e-envoy, my better half (cabinet office bod) is bringing such details to my attention.

"clever people"
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2004, 04:31:13 PM »
Quote
Arrrghh, this is turning into a definate vote change for me.

And as seems to be the case now a days, the main opposition are in for it too.

This is ridiculous: biometrics technology is not at the stage where it can be relied on to be used for everyone. A recent report on biometric screening at airports suggested a compromise of 1 in 20 missed terrorists would yield 1 in a 1000 false positives - or 1 person on every 3 jumbo jets. Note that this high a error ratio means that it will be impossible to correctly identify if two entries in the database with the same biometric reading are the same person or not. Which sort of makes the entire thing fall apart somewhat, doesn't it.

And carrying the biometric information on the card is simply a way to hide the fact that its all tied to a central database. Simply having your iris scans on the card doesn't help any, since a well forged card would have your iris scans on it. To make it "unforgeable" they have to look it up on a central database, and if they do that there is no point in having your biometric data on the card. Or having the card at all, for that matter.

The idiocy of it makes me think Blunkett must have shares in a biometrics company.

Immigration: surely the problem isn't those we have records of, but those we don't.

War on terror: Once again, surely it isn't the terrorists we know that are the problem. And surely most terroists are coming from overseas anyway: if we can stop them, collect their dna or whatever, and then link them to whatever terrorist record we have of them from the CIA or whomever, then we can just stop them there.

And this is skipping over the civil liberties issue.

Sorry to rant. I'm tired, the air-conditioning's broke- no, hang on, we don't have air conditioning. It's very hot and I have lots of work to do.


excellent points one & all.

while we're at it - lets finsih this off.

DNA = 1 in a billion accuracy. this simply translates as 6 other ppl alive will test as having the DNA as you.

fingerprints are waaaaaaay worse. the real stats on all these methods show a an almost naive disregard for the concepts of liberty, and 'innocent until proven guilty'.

the number of 'false positives' gotten by the use of fingerprints over the course of the last century doesn't bear thinking abut. <insert real stats here>. add this to the increasing mobilty of ppl, and DNA should be dclared null & void too.

just my 2c, but since the death penalty is due to make an appearance soon, i'd say that nothing less than an unmitigated, independently witnessed admission of guilt should allow a verdict of guilty.

"clever people"
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2004, 04:33:03 PM »
Ha, typical. "You can choose not to have one.... but we'll charge you £2,500". What happens once you've refused the card and paid the fine then? Are you just let off having the ID card? Probably not.

Having said that, there doesn't seem to be any biometrics involved yet - the ID card won't be much different to your Drivers License, basically. The only difference I can see is that the powers that be can just point a card reader at you and read the card from your pocket - although a lead case for it will stop that, I assume.

I might just accept it as something I have to do otherwise I'll have to leave the country, but I'm going to have to think hard about how much I want to stay in this country should the biometrics become mandatory.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there needs to be a revolution, violent if needs be. Democracy clearly doesn't work, a dictator would IF said dictator wasn't a fucking cunt, like the world has experienced of all it's dictators. That or just keep your head down, don't act out of line etc.

"clever people"
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2004, 04:35:18 PM »
Quote from: "DevlinC"
I might just accept it as something I have to do otherwise I'll have to leave the country, but I'm going to have to think hard about how much I want to stay in this country should the biometrics become mandatory.


Where to? many many other countries have ID cards.

Quote from: "DevlinC"
I've said it before and I'll say it again - there needs to be a revolution, violent if needs be. Democracy clearly doesn't work, a dictator would IF said dictator wasn't a fucking cunt, like the world has experienced of all it's dictators.


Careful, Anakin Skywalker said the same, and look what happened to him....

"clever people"
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2004, 04:36:30 PM »
...he got to be a jedi and shag natalie portman?

where do i sign?

edit: look at my post count, does this make me a terrorist?

"clever people"
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2004, 04:38:18 PM »
Quote from: "Purple Tentacle"
Quote from: "DevlinC"
I might just accept it as something I have to do otherwise I'll have to leave the country, but I'm going to have to think hard about how much I want to stay in this country should the biometrics become mandatory.


Where to? many many other countries have ID cards.


..like where? Do they all have Biometrics?

And to be honest, another reason I don't want to go with biometrics here is that I don't trust this government in the slightest. Other governments, maybe.

"clever people"
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2004, 04:39:05 PM »
what we need is another big meteor collision with earth to wipe out all of those pesky dactylograms *squawk* :/

what was the TV show where someone’s sneaky mate saved their internet recent history/bookmarks and then humiliated them on the show 'Is there a Mr John Smith in the audience?... we have your internet cache here and we are about to broadcast it" audience whoop whoop

at this point the camera shows John Smith sat with family and friends, clearly mouthing 'oh fuck'

edit: bloody hell you need a deli ticket to get a reply in today, is no bugger working? this was in response to a post miles up the page, probably

"clever people"
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2004, 04:39:14 PM »
For people to appreciate that joke, you're going to have to not post for ages.  Quick, free for all on smoker...

From Viz:

Quote
How can David Blunkett be blind and racist?


What a pointless post.

chand

  • "like Louise Mensch but with a sexy beard"
    • https://twitter.com/RopesToInfinity
"clever people"
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2004, 04:42:12 PM »
Quote from: "DevlinC"
Ha, typical. "You can choose not to have one.... but we'll charge you £2,500". What happens once you've refused the card and paid the fine then? Are you just let off having the ID card? Probably not.


It means you get to be officially 'dead' and free to carry out terrorist attacks without fear of ever getting caught.

"clever people"
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2004, 04:46:38 PM »
Quote from: "chand"
Quote from: "DevlinC"
Ha, typical. "You can choose not to have one.... but we'll charge you £2,500". What happens once you've refused the card and paid the fine then? Are you just let off having the ID card? Probably not.


It means you get to be officially 'dead' and free to carry out terrorist attacks without fear of ever getting caught.


Ahh but if you win the National Lottery you are not eligable to pick up the prize.

chand

  • "like Louise Mensch but with a sexy beard"
    • https://twitter.com/RopesToInfinity
"clever people"
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2004, 04:48:07 PM »
True, but if I was a suicide bomber the prospect of a Lottery win probably wouldn't concern me greatly.

MojoJojo

  • Member
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  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
"clever people"
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2004, 04:55:28 PM »
Quote from: "untitled_london"


while we're at it - lets finsih this off.

DNA = 1 in a billion accuracy. this simply translates as 6 other ppl alive will test as having the DNA as you.

fingerprints are waaaaaaay worse. the real stats on all these methods show a an almost naive disregard for the concepts of liberty, and 'innocent until proven guilty'.

the number of 'false positives' gotten by the use of fingerprints over the course of the last century doesn't bear thinking abut. <insert real stats here>. add this to the increasing mobilty of ppl, and DNA should be dclared null & void too.
.


DNA evidence: I beleive when this is presented in court, the standard measure the expert witness is expected to provide when a match is made against the suspect is a probability that the DNA sample found could of come from somewhere other than the suspect. This is a combinaton of the quality of the original sample, and other factors such as how many other peoples dna you would expect to find in the same place. While this is resonable, it is difficult to know how well this probability can be calculated, and how well juries can understand it. Is a 1 in a 1000 chance areasonable doubt etc...

Finger prints have never been shown to be unique. However, it should also be remembered that fingerprint searches are only computer assisted: a trained, highly skilled expert is required to make the final match. This is a completely different case from the id card biometrics.

Oh, on DNA evidence I seem to remember a report finding that the UK Police had failed in it's legal responsibility of destroying dna samples taken "to eliminate suspects" - and was in fact using these illegally held samples in different, unrelated crimes. But hey, we can trust 'em, they won't misuse the national ID database.

"clever people"
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2004, 05:09:53 PM »
Quote from: "The Beeb"
Asked whether members of the Royal Family would be required to apply for a card if compulsion is introduced, Mr Blunkett said: "We are all subjects and citizens."


Actually, you beardy-weirdy, we're all subjects, not citizens, the exception being the genetically-challenged Royals, who are our Lords and Masters by Divine Right, and are as likely to carry ID cards as they would a fucking Blockbuster Membership Card.

Grrr. If I ever see David Blunkett, I'm going upset him by yelling "What a lovely sunset, just look at it everyone, oh that's beautiful, woe to him who can't appreciate such a beautiful and aesthetically pleasing view, IT LOOKS FUCKING GREAT THAT DOES!!"

Blunkett: <sob>

"clever people"
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2004, 05:29:30 PM »
There is no point in the card as I think, as has been said before they just need to check your actual iris rather than a virtual one you carry on the card. You already have the data it's you!