Author Topic: [Football] Beckham to go to London?  (Read 1200 times)

weekender

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2004, 07:29:46 PM »
Just to add my tuppence worth, I'm a genuinely neutral fan, and Arsenal this season have excited me with the way they play football more than any other English team in the past two decades.

hands cold, liver warm

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2004, 07:42:02 PM »
Why is there this obsession with europe? Just because you don't win the european cup doesn't mean you are not a great side. Arsenal have finished first or second in the league for the 6 seasons (i think), wenger has won 3 fa cups and 3 league titles. This is greatness. This is history. The wolves team that dominated the 1950's were a great side, despite the fact they didn't win any european trophies.

Some poor sides have won the european cup over the years,such as Steaua bucharest in 1986. Newcaste qualified for the the fairs cup in 1968 despite  finishing tenth in the league. They went on to win the trophy in 1969. Was that newcastle team great? No.

I'm not an arsenal fan.

fanny splendid

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2004, 07:50:19 PM »
Well, no-one wants to be another Celtic or Rangers...

hands cold, liver warm

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2004, 07:58:14 PM »
the difference between this arsenal team and the recent old firm sides is that arsenal are genuinely competing for the european cup, they have a chance of winning even if they haven't done yet. Only a great team is capable of tonking roma and inter milan away from home as arsenal have done. Also unlike rangers and celtic, arsenal have genuinely world class players

edit: the english leauge has historically been much harder to dominate than the scottish league. Even the great liverpool sides couldn't win the title year after year. The recent  dominance by man utd is unprecedented

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2004, 08:13:49 PM »
You have to win a European Trophy because to be great you have to beat the best teams. Beating Wolves at home doesn't qualify you for that, beating Inter or Barcelona does.

Oh and the best teams ever in British football? Man U of 98-99 don't come close to it.

For me:

Liverpool of the seventies and eighties. Man U and the Arse can dream of this record:

1973 - League and UEFA Cup
1974 - FA Cup
1976 - League and UEFA Cup
1977 - European Cup.
1978 - European Cup
1979 - League.
1980 - League.
1981 - League Cup and European Cup
1982 - League and League Cup
1983 - League and League Cup
1984 - League, League Cup, European Cup treble.
1986 - League and FA Cup double.
1988 - League
1989 - FA Cup
1990 - League
1992 - FA Cup

That is dominance. And remember that the 1978-79 side hold a record that will almost certainly never be broken. Played 42, scored 85, conceded 16. Unbelieveable record.

Also in consideration have to be Nottingham Forset 1978-80. One league title and two European Cups on the trot with a 2nd division budget is incredible. I doubt that will be bettered again either. Can you see Wigan winning the playoffs, winning the championship and then two Champions Leagues? Very doubtful.

hands cold, liver warm

  • I involuntarily came in my pants
[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2004, 08:30:44 PM »
if memeory serves me correct, the first ever english league season was in 1889. the european cup didn't start until 1955, and even then english sides didn't participate for a few years. This means there was 65-70 years of isolated professional english football.

The argument that greatness requires european triumph means that the great teams within this 70 year period are rendered instantly  inferior to the post-european sides.

I don't think that is very fair.

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2004, 08:36:00 PM »
so, will Beckham go to Chelsea then? i do think a move to Highbury is out of the question... the money will be too much for Arsenal.

and if he does move, what do the various (Chelsea/United?) fans here think about it?

fanny splendid

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2004, 09:30:09 PM »
I don't want Beckham back Utd. He'll fit in well at Chelsea. He'll cost a fortune, and do fuck all.

chand

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2004, 10:14:12 PM »
Quote from: "hands cold, liver warm"
Only a great team is capable of tonking roma and inter milan away from home as arsenal have done.


Well, of course, they did get fairly tonked at Highbury by Inter Milan.

chand

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2004, 10:21:26 PM »
Quote from: "european son"
the "luck" of course, that i was referring to was some shocking refereeing decisions en-route to the final, that and the team being totally outclassed in the final and having two messy goals so late in the game.


Bit harsh, that. The final as I remember it was pretty tight, I wouldn't say we were 'outclassed'. In fact, neither team really showed their class in what was a pretty nervous and scrappy affair. But you know, we went and got a 1-1 against Inter in the San Siro after winning 2-0 at home, and came back from 2 down in Turin against Juventus, and played some pretty fantastic football throughout the competition, as I remember. Not sure what refereeing decisions you're referring to, but I suspect they're balanced out by this season.

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2004, 10:27:12 PM »
Quote from: "hands cold, liver warm"
if memeory serves me correct, the first ever english league season was in 1889. the european cup didn't start until 1955, and even then english sides didn't participate for a few years. This means there was 65-70 years of isolated professional english football.

The argument that greatness requires european triumph means that the great teams within this 70 year period are rendered instantly  inferior to the post-european sides.

I don't think that is very fair.


It's not fair, but that's just the way it has to be. The Preston side of the late 19th century have an outstanding record and were easily the best team in the country (maybe Villa fans might argue), but you can only judge them as the best team in England. You can't compare them to the great Italian, Spanish or German sides of the era because they just didn't play them competitively.

That Preston team were a great side, but they can't be judged a great world side in the same was Liverpool of the late '70s, Tottenham of the early '70s, Madrid of the '50s and '60s can be. They proved they were great consistently. Preston never did (although I'm sure they would have if given the chance).

It's also tricky comparing teams across eras. Yes the Arsenal team of today would have outrun the Tottenham of 1961. But give Henry and Pires a heavy laced ball that barely bounces and put them up against Mackay, Norman or Henry with no protection from the ref (the tackle by Mackay that broke Chalmers leg in the '61 cup final...a knee high two footed lunge....wasn't even a foul never mind a red card) and see how long they last before crying for their mummies.

chand

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2004, 10:29:52 PM »
Quote from: "hands cold, liver warm"
if memeory serves me correct, the first ever english league season was in 1889. the european cup didn't start until 1955, and even then english sides didn't participate for a few years. This means there was 65-70 years of isolated professional english football.

The argument that greatness requires european triumph means that the great teams within this 70 year period are rendered instantly  inferior to the post-european sides.

I don't think that is very fair.


Well, they won everything they could so they should get the same credit. But nowadays there's a bigger prize. Winning the league now is still great, but it's not as satisying as winning a European Cup. It would greatly enhance United's 'greatest team' credentials if we won it a second time in this era.

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2004, 04:18:57 AM »
Georges classic Arsenal never got a chance to show what they could do in the European cup cos of Heysel. Thats the Rocastle, Davis, Hayes, Merson `Georges Arsenal `not the` Georges Arsenal` of Eddie mcGoldrick and Chris Kiwomya

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2004, 01:02:46 PM »
Quote from: "fanny splendid"
Well, no-one wants to be another Celtic or Rangers...


Problem is the Premiership has went the way of the SPL with Chealsea only muscling in on Man Utd & Arsenals party with Romans vast wads of cash.
When finishing 4th is considered a huge achievement because of the cash involved with the Champions League then things are not great for fans. I feel sorry for Liverpool fans who have to put up with their team considering 4ththe best they can do now when they used to be the best in the world.

Anyhow, Beckham will proably head back but after next season unless something major happens over the summer.I cant see where he would fit into Chelsea's lineup at the moment, he would be a natural for Lampards postition but you cant drop Lampard even for a player of the class of Beckham.
Chelsea seem to be getting ready for a clear out with Veron (booed by everyone these days) & Mutu looking likely to go & probaly Ronaldo at least coming into Chelsea.

phes

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2004, 01:35:29 PM »
Quote from: "king mob"
I feel sorry for Liverpool fans who have to put up with their team considering 4ththe best they can do now when they used to be the best in the world.

Anyhow, Beckham will proably head back but after next season unless something major happens over the summer.


Gerrard-Beckham.

Is it just me, or does anyone else have dreams about these two playing in the same league team. I'm not a liverpool fan, but that would be the ultimate finger. Starting to salivate.......fingers s t  pp  i ng wo  rk i ng...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

fanny splendid

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2004, 01:37:44 PM »
Gerard?

Yeah, I hear Leeds are after a couple of replacements for next season...

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2004, 01:39:59 PM »
Quote from: "phes"
Quote from: "king mob"
I feel sorry for Liverpool fans who have to put up with their team considering 4ththe best they can do now when they used to be the best in the world.

Anyhow, Beckham will proably head back but after next season unless something major happens over the summer.


Gerrard-Beckham.

Is it just me, or does anyone else have dreams about these two playing in the same league team. I'm not a liverpool fan, but that would be the ultimate finger. Starting to salivate.......fingers s t  pp  i ng wo  rk i ng...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz


Its a nice thought but if Houllier manages to get Liverpool into 4th & save his job for yet another season it wont happen.

Poor  Alan Smith, his face is plastered over todays papers after Leeds being relegated, not only does he have to put up with his team being relegated but Birmingham have put a bid of 6 million in for him ;)

fanny splendid

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2004, 01:45:16 PM »
Quote from: "king mob"
Poor  Alan Smith, not only does he have to put up with his team being relegated but Birmingham have put a bid of 6 million in for him ;)


Heh, heh, heh. Yes, I bet Leeds were wishing they had told him about the offer before the match.

As a small incentive, like.

phes

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[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2004, 01:50:15 PM »
Quote from: "king mob"

Poor  Alan Smith, his face is plastered over todays papers after Leeds being relegated, not only does he have to put up with his team being relegated but Birmingham have put a bid of 6 million in for him ;)


I never thought I'd feel this way, but I do feel genuinely sorry for smith. Also he appears to have cleaned up his act. Everyone expects him to behave like an animal, I would suggest that he doesn't dissapoint and beats the shit out of Mark Viduka.

ps - 6Million. What a joke. Worth twice that.

E.g - Heldar postiga 7.5
          Peter Crouch   5.5
         Veron.......... Hee,Hee

[Football] Beckham to go to London?
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2004, 02:23:21 PM »
Can we get back to the important issues here?

Millwall will get Beckham. He knows it's worth it! And it would be ghreat to see Victoria relegated to a flat in Bermondsey/New Cross.

Fuck, I'll save up myself to see that!