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March 28, 2024, 11:47:14 AM

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Mass Effect 2 [split topic]

Started by Second Burner, January 28, 2010, 04:44:41 PM

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MojoJojo

Quote from: The Region Legion on June 30, 2010, 05:24:27 AM
So, not as good as the first in many ways, but I preferred the characters and their stories in this one, plus I'm very glad to not have to juggle my list of guns and armor like the last one. No doubt though that this series is now officially my favourite of all time. It's how computer games should be.

I have a few things to add since I've now played the first a bit more.
The Mako mining was far better in the first game. People bitched about it, but I quite enjoyed it. The main problem is they made the planets far too mountainous, which made getting around far too annoying. If they'd flattened it out a bit it would be fine.
The mining in the second ... what were they thinking?
The don't like the way the second is structured, with everything being recruitment or loyalty quests. There is very little main plot, and I think that is a big negative in an RPG. I did wonder if there had been some plan to make it episodic. The DLC suggests that it was used as a form of quality control - we'll develop x characters and associated missions, then put the best or the completed ones in the main game and polish up the other ones for DLC.
I suspect the real issue is that as a "middle" game, they simply didn't have enough plot for it.

So the third game has a couple of things going for it - more plot (probably) and they're introducing back some of the RPG elements. Hopefully they'll finally be able to make the combat better as well.
BUT, as the final part of the triolgy, there is less motivation to make it good.

Quote from: Fred Shittah on June 30, 2010, 11:46:34 AM
I managed to lose two of them without knowing what I did wrong.

Had you done their loyalty missions? If anyone in the team isn't loyal their chances of dying is higher or certain I think. I expect its tied to your paragon points as well in some way.

I'm disappointed that I didn't manage to save the rest of the crew - particularly Kelly, who I had to watch get melted down alive. That was quite unpleasant.

Fred Shittah

^ Yeah, I did everything, as previously I had expected ME1 to have a free play mode at the end like GTA and so completed the main story line with loads still left to do. With ME2 I even went to every system and scanned every planet looking for side missions before starting what was obviously the final mission (of course this time there was a free play continue option).

Was Kelly the wee ginger bird who told you when you had new messages? Because she definitely survived in my game along with the other kidnapped crew members.

Ignatius_S


Quote from: The Region Legion on June 30, 2010, 05:24:27 AM
...The finale was frankly disappointing, although nail biting - there was no real epic decision making moment like leaving the council ship to blow up whilst trying to save the Citadel in ME1. ...
Yeah, absolutely agree with that.

Quote from: MojoJojo on June 30, 2010, 11:52:28 AM
I have a few things to add since I've now played the first a bit more.
The Mako mining was far better in the first game. People bitched about it, but I quite enjoyed it. The main problem is they made the planets far too mountainous, which made getting around far too annoying. If they'd flattened it out a bit it would be fine.
The mining in the second ... what were they thinking?
The don't like the way the second is structured, with everything being recruitment or loyalty quests. There is very little main plot, and I think that is a big negative in an RPG. I did wonder if there had been some plan to make it episodic. The DLC suggests that it was used as a form of quality control - we'll develop x characters and associated missions, then put the best or the completed ones in the main game and polish up the other ones for DLC.
I suspect the real issue is that as a "middle" game, they simply didn't have enough plot for it.

So the third game has a couple of things going for it - more plot (probably) and they're introducing back some of the RPG elements. Hopefully they'll finally be able to make the combat better as well.
BUT, as the final part of the triolgy, there is less motivation to make it good.
Good points.

One thing I miss about the Mako mining is that by being able to drive around planets made the universe feel bigger. With ME2 – and I'm finding the same with Dragon Age –  with the areas you can go around in, you're obviously meant to be doing stuff and my impression was that this has reduced the playing area (you just need to compare the Citadel in ME 1 and 2).

Although I did enjoy ME2, the main freedom was really what order you wanted to recruit crew and whether to do loyalty missions and overall I felt it rather restricted.

Quote from: The Region Legion on June 30, 2010, 03:52:51 PM
Had you done their loyalty missions? If anyone in the team isn't loyal their chances of dying is higher or certain I think. I expect its tied to your paragon points as well in some way.

I'm disappointed that I didn't manage to save the rest of the crew - particularly Kelly, who I had to watch get melted down alive. That was quite unpleasant.
Loyalty is meant to play a big part – I've a feeling if you pick someone who isn't loyal to do one of the tasks, although they can complete it, there's a good job they'll die afterwards.
   

Quote from: Fred Shittah on June 30, 2010, 05:21:03 PM
...Was Kelly the wee ginger bird who told you when you had new messages? Because she definitely survived in my game along with the other kidnapped crew members.
Yup – you have to go after them straight away when they're kidnapped if you want them to survive.

Big Jack McBastard

If you get all the ship upgrades, pick Garrus to lead the second team at the start, use Jack or Morinth to keep the biotic barrier up, send Mordin back with the crew, and Tali or Legion to do the duct work (Tali preferably as Legion is very handy in the Collector base) and then use Garrus (maybe Miranda) again for the second bit where you split up you should be hunky dory and keep all them buggers alive.

Oh and make sure they're all loyal too.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Big Jack McBastard on July 01, 2010, 05:03:03 PM
If you get all the ship upgrades, pick Garrus to lead the second team at the start, use Jack or Morinth to keep the biotic barrier up, send Mordin back with the crew, and Tali or Legion to do the duct work (Tali preferably as Legion is very handy in the Collector base) and then use Garrus (maybe Miranda) again for the second bit where you split up you should be hunky dory and keep all them buggers alive.

Oh and make sure they're all loyal too.
Yeah, the ship upgrades are a must - but loyalty isn't absolutely necessary.

HappyTree

How do they become loyal? I've stalled again at this game so am probably not that far into it. Do they just become loyal after you do the relevant mission?

Ignatius_S

Quote from: HappyTree on July 01, 2010, 09:57:05 PM
How do they become loyal? I've stalled again at this game so am probably not that far into it. Do they just become loyal after you do the relevant mission?
Yes - but I've a feeling that how you behave during the mission and what the outcome is determines if they become loyal (it certainly was the case with the mercenary from the DLC).

HappyTree

My MO in Mass Effect is to play as a woman and then try to seduce anything that moves. What that says about me I wouldn't dare to guess :-D So far I only have a chance with the saucy officer beside the Galaxy Map but I'm hoping a future companion will provide some hetero action.

Mister Six

Quote from: HappyTree on July 01, 2010, 11:38:21 PM
My MO in Mass Effect is to play as a woman and then try to seduce anything that moves. What that says about me I wouldn't dare to guess :-D So far I only have a chance with the saucy officer beside the Galaxy Map but I'm hoping a future companion will provide some hetero action.

Hope you like lizards!

It's a tremendous game, but it suffers a bit from being pretty much nothing but character missions. Makes the ending feel a bit rushed and anticlimactic, and doesn't give you the opportunity to play around with team configurations like Dragon Age did.

HappyTree

I'm got back into this game and have just found out that I can buy points to get the paid-for DLC.

I got the Cerbeus Network extras for free, plus the Zaeed character. Is the other DLC worth getting? Any tips on when to do them, or can you just do them whenever you like? I've done the Zaeed loyalty mission already.


Mister Six

Didn't pick up the Kasumi DLC, but from what I understand it's a good, fun level of pretty much the same size as the Zaeed one. Basically it's a James Bond/heist story, with you having to either help or catch (I forget) Kasumi, the galaxy's greatest thief.

Of the other mini DLCs (not counting the weapon/armour packs) Firewalker is slight but a decent enough distraction and Normandy Crash Site is small but a nice coda to the first game. I believe that they're both free if you got a new copy of Mass Effect 2, in which case you might as well grab them and play them as part of the main game. If you bought it second-hand you'll have to spend 1200 MS points on unlocking the Cerberus Network, which gets you those missions, Zaeed and some weapons and armour. Not really worth it, since you've already got Zaeed.

The DLC heavyweights are Lair of the Shadow Broker and Overlord, which you can play at any point in the game (although doing them both early on would probably be a good idea as they give you access to some loot). Overlord is okay - about five hours spent exploring the technological equivalent of a haunted house, with some vehicular action in-between (much better than ME1's Mako, thankfully). Get it if you've got the points to burn or are really enthused about the Mass Effect universe. The story is kind of interesting, but a bit slim and doesn't really feed into the wider game.

Lair of the Shadow Broker, on the other hand, is an absolute must-have. You get a beefy story, some more interesting lore about the ME universe, a chance to fight alongside (and renew your relationship with) Liara, some excellent new environments and about six or seven hours of gameplay. You also get some great bonuses at the end of the DLC, so it's well worth playing before you get too far into ME2.

Thankfully, both Shadow Broker and Overlord (particularly SB) have alternative dialogue and cutscenes if played after you complete ME2, so don't worry if you've already finished it. Indeed, Shadow Broker seems to be setting one or two things up for the next DLC/game...

HappyTree

I have all the free stuff, plus I got the game new so it came with the codes for Cerbeus, etc. Not bothered about new weapons or armour, but yeah I'll go for Kasumi, Overlord and SB which I'll do as an epilogue. Cheers.

Mister Six

SB gives you some really cool shit that would be useful in-game, so while it works as an epilogue I'd recommend doing it mid-game instead. It'll make sense in either situation, I think.

HappyTree

Got the DLC now, it worked! Man, I get sidetracked into different games. Currently got Divinity, Assassin's Creed, Crackdown 2 and ME2 on the go. Yet all I seem to want to play is the Fantastic Four pinball table

One question. I have the 3 DLC I mentioned: Kasumi thief, Shadow Broker and Overlord. But when I look at my available missions I can only see Kasumi and Overlord as options.

Missions
Dossier: The Master Thief
Stop the Collectors
Dossier: The Warlord

Assignments
Overlord
Project Firewalker: Prothean Site
Project Firewalker: Geth Incursion
Project Firewalker: Survey Sites Located
Normandy: Serrice Ice Brandy

Where is Shadow Broker? How can I access it? The description says "Help Liara track down her nemesis, the mysterious Shadow Broker..." Does that mean I have to find Liara first and then this extra assignment will become available? Where do I find Liara? I have recruited: Zaeed, Mordin, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob and Jack. I've been playing this game for almost 21h so far. Am I just really slow?

Big Jack McBastard

#105
Liara is upstairs opposite the trading stands near the entrance on Illium.

Yes you need to go to her to kick the DLC off though I don't know if you have to do other tasks for her first (very likely) as she has other concerns that set the DLC up, I think 20 hours is ok to where you're up to on a first playthough (I think I totaled about 62 to 68 hours on mine and that's without DLC), there is a lot of auxiliary shit to do and it's easy and often essential to go off on a side-quest hunt in order to level up and get access to new gear and abilities.

Playing it from scratch first time with all the DLC you're looking at 70+ hours and more if you're obsessive over chucking sensors at planets or doing everything it's possible to do in one go.

I've done 3 characters to completion now:

Twitchy: a pro-human overtly xenophobic nutjob with his unfixed red cracked face who killed Wrex, the Council, Kaiden, the Rachni, all the biotics fan-boys, anyone he could casually... basically whatever fit his agenda, promotes war wherever possible and went from Liara's blue booty to knocking Doc Martins with Jack.

Rosetta: a light-sider lady who is a total hippy, always lets shit slide, never punches the camera woman (excessively) let the Rachni live and is steadfastly loyal to Liara and the Council. Kisses her superiors asses and won't touch anything dubious.

and Spittle: who is an outright evil goth bitch who intentionally
Spoiler alert
let nine of the crew die+the unfortunate folk in the Reaper goo
[close]
just to see what the imported save for the next game would be like. She enjoys setting people up and robbing them of their desires and holds no truck with shagging the crew and basically took every other choice she could that the others didn't.

I'm not obsessive.. stop looking at me like that.

HappyTree

Well I guess I've taken so long to play this game it feels like more than it is. I do love it, but I find it a bit like work, possibly sue to my obsessiveness too. I have spent, for example, over 3 hours solid mining planets so I could get lots of upgrades. I tend to try to do all the secondary assignments first for fear of not having them available if I get too far in the main story.

Don't know if I could be bothered to play this more than once, but I would like to rectify my mistake punching the journalist. I pressed the wrong button, I forgot which trigger was paragon and which was renegade. I am a female character and am hoping for love with Miranda. I hope she puts out, I find the woman next to the Galaxy map annoyingly easy to chat up, heh.

HappyTree

My fish died! Oh the tragedy. I bought some more. I've been reading some guides and apparently I can get Kelly to feed my fish for me if I invite her to dinner. I think most of my confusion was due to me ignoring the Krogan dossier, so the story had halted whilst I faffed around doing everything else. I am not a fan of the Krogans, I find all large, brute force characters very dull. But I just completed that mission so hopefully things will now open up.

I did the Kasumi DLC. Now that was excellent. And I've finally twigged that having Garrus use the sniper rifle makes things a lot easier. I think my regular team will be Garrus and Kasumi. I love her invisible power, with those two I can just hide behind a wall and let them do most of the work.

Big Jack McBastard

He turns up late in the main plot but Legion is very handy to have around as a sniper, as well as having a secret
Spoiler alert
raging metallic hard-on
[close]
for Shepard, he can handle the nastiest sniper rifle in the game (which comes in handy in the later stages and when
Spoiler alert
Harbinger
[close]
won't bugger off.

You can use it yourself of course but I think you have to have chosen an assault/soldier-type class to have the arms for it.

Flogged my copy recently, now noticing more bloody DLC has come out with 'Arrival'.

HappyTree

Yeah I just got my briefing from the guy on the holoscreen about the Arrival mission. It looks difficult, you have to do it alone so I'll leave it to the very end when I have all my magical powers up full. It got some crappy reviews, I only got it cos I don't really spend on DLC for anything else so I figured why not.

Reading this thread makes me want to pick up ME1 again, specifically for that ending I mentioned this time last year (bloody hell, literally this time last year, that was a coincidence). When's ME3 scheduled for again?

March 6th 2012

Reckon I'll hold off until next year then.

Big Jack McBastard

It's a funny thing on my second run through on ME2 I still lost a crew member or two, even though I covered everything I did in the first (all the side missions and loyalty things plus ship and weapon upgrades) before jumping into the last mission (so I could save the crew). If anything I was even more thorough as I went looking for guides afterwords and picked up the odd task I'd missed with Twitchy.

It made me think there must still be a bit of dice rolling/chance[nb]albeit weighted chance[/nb] going on in the background.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: HappyTree on June 14, 2011, 01:41:39 AM
My fish died! Oh the tragedy...
I rather like the idea that you're too busy saving the universe to fee the fish – I wonder if they'll put any consequences for that in the third one?

Which DLC do you have at the mo?

HappyTree

I bought some more fish. I now have 3 different types and Kelly is looking after them for me. But I still feed them myself as well, just in case. I feel that if the fish die there is no hope for mankind.

I have all of the DLC. Zaeed, Firewalker and Normandy Crash Site came free.

I have done Kasumi the cheeky thief who always has an amusing comment to make when I talk to her in her room on the ship. She has the best biotic power in the game, I love watching her go invisible and sneak up behind people.

I will do Lair of the Shadow Broker, Overlord and Arrival in that order after I finish all the other side quests, loyalty missions and the main game. I know I'll get some cool kit if I do them before but I prefer to hear what dialogue comes out of doing them afterwards.

I have about 4 loyalty missions still to do and I've yet to meet Legion. I'm putting off the Krogan one, I hate that character. I'd ignore him and let him die in the suicide mission but I want the achievement of keeping them all alive.

MojoJojo

Been thinking about this more and I think one of the problems with ME2 is the whole joining Cerberus part of the plot. It just seems a bit pointless. There's no real moral choice in it since you aren't given one, and it doesn't really make any difference in practice.

It just feels like padding. Although now I think about it I guess it would have been a lot harder to cut out most of the citadel like they did. And discussions with the council would all depend on whether you saved them in ME1, which may have been a bit of a headache.

Little Hoover

Well I completed this yesterday, good game on the whole, although it can be very frustrating, having not played the first game, I can certainly see the appeal for some, but Dragon Age 2 at least managed to refer back to previous games without making you feel really left out.

Made a dumb decision playing as a female Shepard that instantly started romancing bland Jacob, he's just the first character you get the option to flirt with, so I took it, but it seemed like that closed off the possibility of anything happening with other characters. It makes more sense, but since it's bioware, I thought it might be the same bisexual free for all that Dragon Age 2 was.
Jack rejected me on account of not being into women, Tali and Garrus didn't seem to able to progress past a certain point, and Miranda threw a hissy fit when I took Jack's side in the argument. I kept trying to build up enough Paragon points to patch things up with her, but she remained stuck on that for the rest of the game, so new dialogue options, opened up.

She later turned out to be the only crew member that didn't survive, so fuck her quite frankly. The self-righteous bitch was wrong about Jack, who proved to be a useful asset to the team, and didn't betray us. Meanwhile she held a fucking grudge against me, simply because I disagreed with her over something. Throughout the game she acted like a petulant child just because I was captain and she wasn't, even after all the help I gave her with finding her sister.

Wish I'd found Legion earlier in the game, I didn't get him until as late as you possibly can because I thought the mission where you get him, would take me to a point of no return, and as it turns out, he's the most interesting character and the coolest in a fight.

It annoys me that decision you have to make at the very end of the game results in Paragon or Renegade points. I wish there'd be a few choice in the game that don't judge the morality of the situation, but are simply decisions that have consequences. It presents a genuine moral quandary that doesn't have a simple black and white answer, then decides one is right and one is wrong. I ended up looking up what would happen in advance, and went for the one that gave me paragon points, simply because I was completely undecided over what the best decision was.

HappyTree

The good thing is, though, that getting Renegade points doesn't take any Paragon away, you can be both good and bad. So I maxed out my Paragon as early as possible and am now free to be a bit naughty. Though mostly I don't, I go back a save after doing a Renegade interrupt. But I don't have to be paranoid about little negs.

I like the interrupts, there aren't enough of them. It was good during the Thane story to
Spoiler alert
stop him from killing that guy at the last minute
[close]
. More of that kind of thing, please! You feel more involved.

Just got one more Loyalty mission to do now, Tali. Then it's finally back to the main storyline. I've spent a while going to uncharted places and diving into the missions you just find by accident. With my mastery of dominate and warp I finally feel pretty confident.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: HappyTree on July 04, 2011, 02:06:00 PM
....I have all of the DLC. Zaeed, Firewalker and Normandy Crash Site came free...

Cheers for the feedback about those – and apologies for asking which DLC you had, when you had already said!

Quote from: Little Hoover on September 18, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
Well I completed this yesterday, good game on the whole, although it can be very frustrating, having not played the first game, I can certainly see the appeal for some, but Dragon Age 2 at least managed to refer back to previous games without making you feel really left out....

Haven't played DA2 yet, but wouldn't that be in that one you're playing a different character than the first game and have to deal with the consequences of the actions of others, rather than yourself?

Quote from: Little Hoover on September 18, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
.. and Miranda threw a hissy fit when I took Jack's side in the argument. I kept trying to build up enough Paragon points to patch things up with her, but she remained stuck on that for the rest of the game, so new dialogue options, opened up....
That I think was a weakness of the relationship aspect game – there was no way to change the consequence of certain decisions like those. Okay, Jack and Miranda hate each other, but if you've been getting on with one or both well (even heading towards romance), it seems a little crude for all that to be destroyed in a heated moment with no way of repairing the damage done.

When Jack and Miranda have that argument, reportedly, if you've accrued a certain percentage of the possible renegade/paragon, then you're able to keep both happy but this is much easier earlier on the game, than later. From various claims, it appears that someone with 20% paragon could diffuse the situation early on, but someone who with 85-95% couldn't.

Quote from: Little Hoover on September 18, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
....It annoys me that decision you have to make at the very end of the game results in Paragon or Renegade points. I wish there'd be a few choice in the game that don't judge the morality of the situation, but are simply decisions that have consequences...

Arguably, the renegade/paragon points add an element to replayability as they carry over to the next game (and I think from ME to ME2) and the whole game is very geared towards having those points. Not saying that's good, but it is, what it is.

Quote from: HappyTree on September 18, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
The good thing is, though, that getting Renegade points doesn't take any Paragon away, you can be both good and bad...

That's an element that I think was very decent about the renegade/paragon system. Also, in DLC for the first game, something I felt was really neat was using a renegade dialogue option to do something 'good'. Basically, there was a stand-off with a group of armed opponents and selecting a renegade conversation option (which warned them if they didn't fuck off now, you would kill them) that caused them to stand down as you came across as such a bad-ass – as a consequence of avoided bloodshed, you received paragon points and experience points. Of course, as with these games, you would obtain loot and more experience if you did slay them.

As I say, I thought that was great in the DLC – I liked the idea of a character, who could employ different approaches (sometimes stroking people with the velvet glove, sometimes threatening them with the iron fist) according to the situation and how they came across in that situation may not be a true reflection of their intentions. I had thought that we were going to see more of that it ME2, but sadly, not.

Little Hoover

Quote from: Ignatius_S on September 26, 2011, 02:34:11 PM

Haven't played DA2 yet, but wouldn't that be in that one you're playing a different character than the first game and have to deal with the consequences of the actions of others, rather than yourself?


Yeah it's understandable why, and I know they're doing something different with this saga,  but it still seems a little excessive how much they've assumed people would be familiar with the first game.

Quote from: Ignatius_S on September 26, 2011, 02:34:11 PM

Arguably, the renegade/paragon points add an element to replayability as they carry over to the next game (and I think from ME to ME2) and the whole game is very geared towards having those points. Not saying that's good, but it is, what it is.


I'm not saying all the renegade/paragon points need to be ditched, just that some moral decisions you make aren't black or white. (or blue or red, rather) The story impact can still carry on into the next game, but I think it cheapens it to say that one decision gives you paragon points, the other renegade points. It'd be more exciting if you didn't know whether the decision you'd made was good or bad and you had to wait for the next game to find out.

HappyTree

A couple of times I've noticed that I strayed from trying to be so sugary sweet and fancied a little joke or even neutral comment. And then at the end I get hit with 4 renegade. Sometimes I'm not sure if a comment at the bottom-left of the conversation wheel will give me additional info or be a negative trigger.

One way to help people like me not be so worried about it would be if the amount of persuasive influence you have is independent of + or - assessment. It should be something neutral like "influence" or "charisma" or something. Then the actual mechanism of that persuasion can play out +vely or -vely depending on your polarity and you get to the same place. I still am annoyed that I forgot which trigger button was for renegade interrupts and accidentally hit the reporter. I didn't bother to go back a save and undo it so I was stuck with her ignoring me for the rest of the game. I wanted to be interviewed on TV!

I hope she forgives me in ME3.