Author Topic: This film  (Read 2004 times)

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

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This film
« on: January 28, 2010, 08:13:24 PM »
What is this film?

It's a German film, from the last two years or so, about a university lecturer who's trying to teach his liberal students about why Germany should never let itself be taken over by a movement like Nazism again, so to prove his point he sets up a far-right group for the students to join, only then they join it and actually get far more into it than he expected and presumably it all goes horribly wrong.

What's the bloody thing called?

CaledonianGonzo

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Re: This film
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 08:16:10 PM »


The Wave

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

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Re: This film
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 08:19:08 PM »
Thanky.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: This film
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 11:51:58 PM »
Wasn't it based on a real occurrence?

Fake EDIT: Yes, sort of, but in an American High School in 1967.

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 12:31:42 AM »
 Ah cheers, I thought it might have been based loosly on Philip Zimbardo's work, with the Stanford Prison Experiment.He gave a lecture on institutionalised brutality with regards to both the original Experiment and Abu Ghraib


(repost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYre8SlOO_k

Baxter

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Re: This film
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 12:36:12 AM »
I'm so fucking tired of hearing about Philip FUCKING Zimbardo the next time he or that cunt Milgram get mentioned I'm going to scream!

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 01:03:37 AM »
 yeah well i'm sick of hearing about your fucking waistcoat.So go fuck yourself yeah?

rudi

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Re: This film
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 01:05:07 AM »
Is it Ice Age 2?

Baxter

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Re: This film
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 01:05:41 AM »
I can't get into that position with a waistcoat on!

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 01:19:15 AM »
 mate i'm a little bit volatile at the minute on the grounds that this bells palsy is putting my emotional state through the wringer, so lets just say if you want to talk about waistcoats you talk about waistcoats its fine by me, and if i want to discuss Philip Zimbardo i'll discuss phillip zimbardo, what is the nature of your objection to the work of phillip zimbardo?

Baxter

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Re: This film
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 01:37:15 AM »
Mostly that the prison study although interesting and of great utility in getting first year students engaged in the subject has very little worth in terms of generalisably, the participants admitted feeling a very strong observer-expectation bias from Zimbardo which was uncommented on by him at the time, he keeps pushing his 'situation not the individual' message even though the majority of the guards in his study showed signs of comradeship with the prisoners outside the 'performance' to Zimbardo's expectations.

And then he has the cheek to piggy back on the Abu-Ghraib affair with his ancient study that's more of a undergrad-hook than a useful investigation.

And you never see him wearing a waistcoat!

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 02:02:36 AM »
 Thank you, whilst i must confess to being ignorant to the sartorial elagance of Mr Zimbardo's wardrobe i feel his film does raise several interesting points about the conduct and running of the Abu-Garib prison that i was unaware of prior to watching.

 His general assesment that Institutions do turn a blind eye to the conduct of their employees and ultimately those in high authority should be held accountable for failing to supervise those entrusted with the day to day running of said institution seems wholly reasonable to me.

 This is not to say those that actually carried out the abuse should not be held accountable for their actions however when you look at how low down the chain of command the responsibility and accountability ceased, then its hard to believe that any lessons have been learned that next time something similar occurs the same old "few rotten apples" excuse will materialise again.

oh and during the time the abuses in abu graib were occuring who was it laying down the Fatwahs about when and where Waterboarding was appropriate, Rulmsfeld?

Baxter

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Re: This film
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 02:23:24 AM »
I do totally agree that the 'few rotten apples' excuse is insufficient and that there should be accountability at a higher level, those are both commendable reforms and I can't see anyone objecting to them.

I just don't believe that Zimbardo's early work points to the conclusions it claims to. The idea that the 'barrel' has such influence over such normal people is seductive and is a lovely conclusion to take from the prison study and even more when it is generalised to tell us that these soldiers aren't naturally torturers, I have no solid idea of the validity of it as a truth but as a conclusion drawn from Zimbardo's work it is manipulated into existence.

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 06:07:41 AM »
 I think small group dynamics had just as much bearing on the nature of the form that the abuse took,but if it had been one rotten apple then he or she would have been in a position to abuse on the systematic scale that occurred, If the abuse had been confined to the small cadre of conspiritors charged, then the group would have been disciplined promptly as it was the abuse was allowed to continue for a number of months and it took the leaking of photo's to the press for the allegations to be investigated thouroughly.

 And at the sametime Dick Cheyney was maintaining that it was acceptable to Waterboard detainees and Rice was refusing to rule out the use of torture, and by doing so they were giving the Detainers in Abu Garib licence torture the detainees.

 I thank you for your time ,I can understand your problem with the methodology of Zimardo's work humanities "experiments" will always be open to subjective interpretation and as i understand it you have a much more scientific grounding which requires a much more rigourous levels of proof. However Zimbardo's observations have been highly influential  in the spheres of penal reform so i feel his input into the matter is worth consideration.

 

the midnight watch baboon

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Re: This film
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 12:39:33 PM »
The Wave. One of the students, the one who takes it too far resembles Spurs' wantaway striker Roman Pavlyuchenko.

rudi

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Re: This film
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 04:25:38 PM »
I think small group dynamics had just as much bearing on the nature of the form that the abuse took,but if it had been one rotten apple then he or she would have been in a position to abuse on the systematic scale that occurred, If the abuse had been confined to the small cadre of conspiritors charged, then the group would have been disciplined promptly as it was the abuse was allowed to continue for a number of months and it took the leaking of photo's to the press for the allegations to be investigated thouroughly.

 And at the sametime Dick Cheyney was maintaining that it was acceptable to Waterboard detainees and Rice was refusing to rule out the use of torture, and by doing so they were giving the Detainers in Abu Garib licence torture the detainees.

 I thank you for your time ,I can understand your problem with the methodology of Zimardo's work humanities "experiments" will always be open to subjective interpretation and as i understand it you have a much more scientific grounding which requires a much more rigourous levels of proof. However Zimbardo's observations have been highly influential  in the spheres of penal reform so i feel his input into the matter is worth consideration.

So, if I read that right, you're saying you think it's the remake of Freaky Friday?

Desi Rascal

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Re: This film
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2010, 06:53:38 AM »
 Dude don't go making me read what i posted, thats like rubbing a puppies nose in its poo

DJ Solid Snail

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Re: This film
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2010, 09:29:25 PM »
I think I've seen an American version of this. Which came first?

Kishi the Bad Lampshade

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Re: This film
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2010, 02:29:51 PM »
The American version was a TV movie in the eighties, I believe.

Re: This film
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2010, 10:41:15 PM »
I can't find the old 'Identify this film' thread so I'm going to use this. I'm trying to think of the name of a British film, possibly made in the 70s, kind of a Ken Loach type thing, really depressing, about a single mother and it ends with her and her kids being carried (dead) out of a flat after she gives them all laced hot chocolate. I think there's some jubilee stuff in there too. Thanks!

Serge

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Re: This film
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2010, 12:16:11 AM »
A quick google of 'single mother poison hot chocolate jubilee' turns up this play. I'm assuming this is it, unless there was a rash of films with a similar ending (I believe the original screenplay for 'Star Wars' ended with Obi Wan Kenobi lacing the hot chocolate of everyone on the Millennium Falcon with poison.)

It's also reminded me that I should get hold of 'Boys From The Blackstuff' on DVD.


Re: This film
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2010, 12:23:54 AM »
Yes, that's the one, thanks!!