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Lost - Season 6 [The Final Season]

Started by Ja'moke, February 02, 2010, 07:59:56 PM

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Custard

Anyone who feels a bit weirded out, should have a butchers at that post-premiere interview Rev posted above. Might make you feel better about the two timelines fingy, and general direction of it all. Did for me, anyway :D They know what they're doing, and it should reach a great conclusion.

I really, really enjoyed both episodes.

There were so many great moments, that i think i need to watch it all again to fully take it all in. The pan down into the sea at the start is already in my favourite Lost moments evihhhh. Brilliant.

So fucking glad its back. Can't wait for the remaining episodes. My eyes were literally popping the whole 2 hours!

TotalNightmare

Damn - and another theory has come to me...

Why didn't they all die in the explosion? For the same reason Desomnd didn't die in the original hatch implosion - spoooooooky reasons!

What i think happened here to Juliet is the exact same thing that happened to Desmond at the end of S2 (see how they mirror eachother - both season end with the energy tearing the area apart, both end with a big BOOM sacrifice and...) they can now both see beyond their timelines. In Desmond's case, he got flash forwards but was also able to 'live' out his past. In Juliet's case, she can see other dimensions.
The clue, i think, to this is the coffee conversation she has with Sawyer before she dies - its almost as if she has experienced the alternate timeline and knows she still ends up with Sawyer - thats why she says the explosion worked - because she has seen the alternative timeline - however, they are still in the timeline with 'all the shit going on' so that lives on. Like classic parrallel dimension theory, the 1977 explosion caused in the split in the timeline and the ripples thereof.
Why do i keep expecting to write 'and all they need is the 1.21 gigawatts of power'?

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: TotalNightmare on February 03, 2010, 05:57:39 PM
Damn - and another theory has come to me...

Why didn't they all die in the explosion?

I think because the instant the bomb started to explode it changed the timeline and as a result of this all the 1977 Losties were instantly zapped back to the present and so they escaped the explosion.  Presumably the Dharmas back in 1977 would have been wiped out.

Their plane still crashed on the island though, why didn't it cause a complete reset?

Ja'moke

Quote from: Shameless on February 03, 2010, 05:47:22 PMThere were so many great moments, that i think i need to watch it all again to fully take it all in. The pan down into the sea at the start is already in my favourite Lost moments evihhhh. Brilliant.

That was a great moment, but the shitty graphics stopped it from been truly brilliant. I did like the reapparence of the Dharma shark, perhaps pre-empting a "jumped the shark" reaction.

I want to know when the island was submerged under water though. Dharmaville was obviously built, and the four toed statue was destroyed. So did it submerge after the hydrogen bomb exploded in 1977, or was it something else entirely?

More questions and points of interest...

Was Desmond really on the plane? Was he time travelling? Could only Jack see him? Unfortunately Rose and Bernard were asleep so they couldn't confirm his appearance.

Could Jack remember the island in the back of his mind? He gave some odd looks, and what was up with that cut on his neck?

Cindy and the kids finally showed up! We found out what was in the guitar case, that cool ankh and Jacob's list!

What was up with 'The Spring', some kind of fountain of youth deal? "The water's not clear anymore" - is that because Jacob died? Is that water tied to the water Ben let down the plughole to summon the smoke monster?

Where is 'home' for Smokey? The Temple? The real world? Another time? Another planet?

hpmons

Wooooo, superawesometime.

Now two dimensions though? Ouch.  That could get tiresome...

Did anyone else think that MiB/Locke looked incredibly demonic when he said he wanted to go home? Eyebrows down angrily, ears looking almost like horns.

Quote from: purlieu on February 03, 2010, 03:29:15 PM
Why was Desmond on the flight?
That really doesn't make any sense, because then even events before the crash were altered...

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 03, 2010, 06:45:28 PM
That was a great moment, but the shitty graphics stopped it from been truly brilliant.
Yeah, its one of the few times I've really wanted my version to be HD.

Ja'moke

Quote from: purlieu on February 03, 2010, 04:11:04 PM
The scene with the monster attacking Bram and such leads another question: the ash around the cabin, was that to keep someone in or out?  And who broke it (as seen in S5)?

I initially thought the ash around the cabin was keeping the MiB inside, but now that we know the MiB and Smokey are one in the same I'm not so sure, because we know Smokey was moving around the island from right back in Season 1. But I'm still leaning towards it been the MiB inside there, what with him saying "Help me" to Locke, and with Christian appearing in there (a manifestation of Smokey/MiB) it would make sense. I think Claire might have been the one that broke the circle to let 'her Dad' out, but little did she know what she was really letting free.

But I'd have to think about it some more and work it in to some kind of timeline, because we know that Christian has been walking around the island ever since Oceanic 815 crashed. And if Christian is the MiB, then obviously the MiB wasn't trapped at that point in time.

Quote from: hpmons on February 03, 2010, 06:48:14 PM
That really doesn't make any sense, because then even events before the crash were altered...

Damon and Carlton touch on that in that link posted on the first page. As they state, the Losties were really selfish in their decision to blow up the hydrogen bomb, they were only thinking about themselves and changing their past/future, but they didn't stop to take in to consideration that they wouldn't just be changing events specific to them, they would be altering history as a whole. It's like the Butterfly Effect theory, one small difference can lead to a whole new sequence of events, so imagine what destroying an H-bomb could have changed.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: hpmons on February 03, 2010, 06:48:14 PM
QuoteWhy was Desmond on the flight?
That really doesn't make any sense, because then even events before the crash were altered...

An explosion on the island in 1977 would have bigger repercussions than just having the plane not crash.

Or maybe the Desmond on the flight was the smoke monster?

Rev

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 03, 2010, 06:45:28 PMWhat was up with 'The Spring', some kind of fountain of youth deal? "The water's not clear anymore" - is that because Jacob died? Is that water tied to the water Ben let down the plughole to summon the smoke monster?

That was the thing I took as blaringly obvious, which I kind of mentioned last night without going into details (for the benefit of you weirdos who insist on being asleep at 5 in the morning).

The idea - it seemed to me - was that whatever healing properties it had were supplied by Jacob, but now he's dead the next person who goes for a dunk gets served the full deal.  So dead Sayid's now Jacob's avatar.

That's the direction I'd have preferred it not to take, because it fits in with the speculation that the final series would involve a full-on war between two factions.  Which is a bit bollocks, really.

Oh, and Desmond has to have been up to his old shenanigans.  The way nobody else noticed him can't have been an accident.

Anyway, great first episode, but the second one was let down by a bit of a saggy opening half hour.  Best line:  'Goodbye, dude.  If you ever need to talk...'

pk1yen

One thing we couldn't get our heads around - why wasn't Shannon on the plane? The bomb must have altered her timeline (and Desmond's, and Hurley's) in addition to just stopping the plane crashing yes?
Altered their timelines way before they were on the flight.

The numbers not being on the hatch, and therefore Hurley keeping his good luck explains his different timeline (sort of) -- Desmond I have no clue about, but his timeline is muddy and spasmy at best -- Shannon ... I can't remember her backstory at all, but why didn't she leave her relationship? Or was it a case of the actress not wanting to come back?

Ja'moke

Quote from: Rev on February 03, 2010, 08:02:19 PM
That was the thing I took as blaringly obvious, which I kind of mentioned last night without going into details (for the benefit of you weirdos who insist on being asleep at 5 in the morning).

The idea - it seemed to me - was that whatever healing properties it had were supplied by Jacob, but now he's dead the next person who goes for a dunk gets served the full deal.  So dead Sayid's now Jacob's avatar.

I think Sayid is possessed by something, but not Jacob. It must be the same place where Richard took the young Ben, and as he said "He won't be the same afterwards.", so obviously something is going to be different with Sayid.

Quote from: pk1yen on February 03, 2010, 08:29:10 PM
One thing we couldn't get our heads around - why wasn't Shannon on the plane? The bomb must have altered her timeline (and Desmond's, and Hurley's) in addition to just stopping the plane crashing yes?
Altered their timelines way before they were on the flight.

The numbers not being on the hatch, and therefore Hurley keeping his good luck explains his different timeline (sort of) -- Desmond I have no clue about, but his timeline is muddy and spasmy at best -- Shannon ... I can't remember her backstory at all, but why didn't she leave her relationship? Or was it a case of the actress not wanting to come back?

Again, you should read that link posted on the first page. Blowing the H-bomb altered everyones timelines, and not just the Losties, they were selfish in thinking it would just stop the plane from crashing and they could live happily ever after - changing the past would effect everyone and every thing, not just them.

Waking Life

I enjoyed it.  Why do all the temple people have American accents?  (I'm guessing those Others date from The Black Rock)

I'm surprised Jack didn't fully recall Desmond when he was able to the last time, even with the stress.

pk1yen

Quote from: Ja'moke on February 03, 2010, 08:38:04 PM
Again, you should read that link posted on the first page. Blowing the H-bomb altered everyones timelines, and not just the Losties, they were selfish in thinking it would just stop the plane from crashing and they could live happily ever after - changing the past would effect everyone and every thing, not just them.

I just finished it actually - probably should have read that before I posted. I forgot all about Kate's ComicCon video - she killed a different guy, so things must have changed before the crash.

One thing that will bug me if they don't sort it out is that - if 815 didn't crash, who blew up the bomb to stop it crashing?

Gaargh I have that familiar Lost-based thought induction-loop of theories.

Ja'moke

Quote from: pk1yen on February 03, 2010, 08:45:08 PM
I just finished it actually - probably should have read that before I posted. I forgot all about Kate's ComicCon video - she killed a different guy, so things must have changed before the crash.

One thing that will bug me if they don't sort it out is that - if 815 didn't crash, who blew up the bomb to stop it crashing?

Gaargh I have that familiar Lost-based thought induction-loop of theories.

815 did crash, just in a separate timeline.

Quote from: Waking Life on February 03, 2010, 08:42:00 PM
I enjoyed it.  Why do all the temple people have American accents?  (I'm guessing those Others date from The Black Rock)

Apart from the Japanese guy obviously. It is quite annoying, but is in an American tv show at the end of the day, so it's to be expected I suppose.

Artemis

Just watched it. I'm torn. I kind of enjoyed it, and kind of like the idea of the two time-lines (as long as they start to merge and affect one another and somehow meet or converge), but the Los Angeles timeline went precisely nowhere in the opening two episodes - it took them an entire two hour première to get off the plane. Surely they could have covered that in one, one and a half, and given us a tease of how they might intend to play it?

The island stuff was okay, although them all 'just surviving' without any explanation of even hint of mystery was a bit hard to swallow, as was an entirely new batch of people at The Temple.

All in all, it's magnificent to have it back, but as a season opener, ultimately I do feel a little underwhelmed. Season openers on Lost have traditionally been WTF? affairs, that totally make you think about things in a different way. This was more a WTF? for the characters than it was the viewers.

The MiB/Locke revelation was predictable but well played out.

It's looking likely that the 'hostiles' (the native people before The Others) are Black Rock shipmates, led (?) by MiB, and Jacob was in some way responsible for keeping them all in the island. The underwater sequence would explain (somehow) how the Black Rock got to be at the centre of the island.

The whole episode felt a million miles away from Desmond/Widmore and so on, which are my favourite elements.

Marv Orange

Quote from: hpmons on February 03, 2010, 06:48:14 PM
Yeah, its one of the few times I've really wanted my version to be HD.

It was ropey in HD too

purlieu

Quote from: pk1yen on February 03, 2010, 08:29:10 PM
One thing we couldn't get our heads around - why wasn't Shannon on the plane? [...] Or was it a case of the actress not wanting to come back?
This.  She's busy on another show.


Ja'moke

Quote from: purlieu on February 03, 2010, 09:27:17 PM
This.  She's busy on another show.

Spoiler alert
They are still trying to work out a way for her to appear later in the season though. Cuse and Lindelof were on Jimmy Kimmell last night and mentioned they hope to see her later in the season.
[close]

Quote from: Artemis on February 03, 2010, 09:02:31 PM
The island stuff was okay, although them all 'just surviving' without any explanation of even hint of mystery was a bit hard to swallow...

I would have said they all survived and travelled back to present time was because Jacob touched them all, but Miles throws a spanner in the works. Miles, as far as we've seen, was never touched by Jacob, so how he survived and travelled back to present time is a mystery.

purlieu

Bearing in mind it's episode 1.  I'm sure we'll find out what the fuck happened later on.

Artemis

Quote from: purlieu on February 03, 2010, 10:08:55 PM
Bearing in mind it's episode 1.  I'm sure we'll find out what the fuck happened later on.

I'm certain of it. My gripe was the matter-of-fact way it was shot. There wasn't any dialogue to indicate that it's a big mystery, short of some clunkingly bad lines like "I THINK WE TRAVELLED IN TIME!!" which might as well have been delivered face-on, direct to camera. There wasn't even any 'mystery music' so it felt to me like I was expected to swallow what was happening which I just couldn't. They spent more time trying to get Juliet out of the hole than they did worry about when the hell they were, and I wasn't at all interested in the former, but very curious about the latter.

purlieu

In all honesty, if I'd been through what they'd been through, I'd have given up asking questions a long time ago.

Ja'moke

Quote from: Artemis on February 03, 2010, 10:14:12 PM
I'm certain of it. My gripe was the matter-of-fact way it was shot. There wasn't any dialogue to indicate that it's a big mystery, short of some clunkingly bad lines like "I THINK WE TRAVELLED IN TIME!!" which might as well have been delivered face-on, direct to camera. There wasn't even any 'mystery music' so it felt to me like I was expected to swallow what was happening which I just couldn't. They spent more time trying to get Juliet out of the hole than they did worry about when the hell they were, and I wasn't at all interested in the former, but very curious about the latter.
Quote from: purlieu on February 03, 2010, 10:35:37 PM
In all honesty, if I'd been through what they'd been through, I'd have given up asking questions a long time ago.

Yes, I think that's the case. I mean these guys have gone through some insanely absurd shit and spent most of last season bopping through time. Travelling back to the present is just one of those things to the Losties these days.

I was more interested in Juliet to be honest, I think she's a great character, and her "coffee" dialogue was interesting, as it seemed, as TotalNightmare pointed out earlier, that she had "done a Desmond" and her consciousness was travelling through time, and I'm guessing it travelled to the alternate reality, where she had coffee with Sawyer. Hence why she knew "it worked."



Lt Plonker

Well, thoroughly enjoyable I must say! Took me 12 sodding hours to get the HD version but it was worth the wait.

Favourite bit was probably Evil Locke's speech about John Locke's last thought - interesting how he seem to have a knowledgeable overview of the survivors and their off-Island lives.

I'm wondering if the Nemesis was being held prisoner, with Jacob as his guard? Was his manipulation of Island inhabitants one massive jailbreak? Is it implied that him getting home would be a bad thing? Roll on next week!

Lt Plonker

Also, the post-nuke hatch site looked way different to how it was post-Desmond Fail safe key, also implying that the Dharma Initiative never actually progressed with the construction.

TotalNightmare

The Hatch was definately built - the crater looks the same as it does in S3 and at the sides of the crater, you can see other tunnels built and props from the bunker also.

The time split is still very confusing.

The Losties destroy the site of the swan station, but its built, and yet still implodes at some point after.. so the Losties travelled to a future 2007 on course with what has happened in Season 1 - 5... However, this means they have jumped back to a point AFTER the Oceanic 6 originally returned to the island - so the incident DID still happen in their timeline and they are back up to speed with the rest of the original castaways and all the EVIL Locke plot stuff.

BUT - what they did with the explosion caused a new time line - which in the course of things, caused the Island to sink and created a ripple so that things were slightly different on the plane. SO... (god help me!) this means the Hatch was never built and therefore the plane never crashed...

BUT, if they didnt crash land, they couldnt have gone back in time to create the explosion which caused the time split in the first place!

So the Losties at Dharma in 1977 'simply' APPEARED and DISAPPEARED in every time line OR one central time line, which means every eventuality can play out from that point on, regardless of "LaFleur's Crew" origins.

FUCKING HELL MY BRAIN HURTS

HappyTree

I enjoyed this. I think Jacob and Smokey are supposed to be two gods, or some kind of Angel/Devil representation. When Smokey wants to go home it's very evocative of Satan wanting to be let back into heaven. Jacob is the one who believes in humanity. It may be him who's now in Saïd. He certainly didn't seem at all bothered about being dead when he appeared to Hurley, his attitude was that it was just another development in his relationship with Smokey.

I would imagine that the two different timelines will be played out in the traditional way of one character dying in one timeline, but it doesn't matter because they're still alive in the other one. Juliette knew this and so wasn't bothered about dying in one timeline, knowing she's with Sawyer in the other.

I wonder if all the Losties caught on the island will just die out, leaving them all alive in the plane timeline. Ultimately the island is the place where Angel/Devil Jacob and Smokey play out their eternal game. I hope the effects of the other timeline will bleed into the plane timeline, making them all change and learn something from the experience. They have to end up affected by it or there would be no point in any of the other timeline happening at all.

Great!

HappyTree

Reading that link, there is the question:

In a world created by an allegedly benevolent and omnipotent God, why the heck is there suffering and evil?

Is that meant to be a difficult question to answer? I worked it out ages ago. I would go into it here on another thread but it would just end up with people telling me how obviously everything I say is bollocks. I've had enough of that lately.

But it's really quite a simple question if you first assume that God exists, as the hypothesis clearly does.

batwings

Quote from: HappyTree on February 04, 2010, 03:01:32 AM
In a world created by an allegedly benevolent and omnipotent God, why the heck is there suffering and evil?

Is that meant to be a difficult question to answer? I worked it out ages ago. I would go into it here on another thread but it would just end up with people telling me how obviously everything I say is bollocks. I've had enough of that lately.

In keeping with the spirit of Lost, you should only reveal the answer in a couple of years time, on another message board.

Lt Plonker

I didn't notice at the time, but Sun and Jin aren't married in the alternate timeline.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_between_flash-sideways_timeline_and_original_timeline

That's actually got me really excited about seeing how the alternate timeline plays out.

Ja'moke

Frogurt was still a jerk in both timelines though.