Lost - Season 6 [The Final Season]

[dr_christian_troy]

I have a feeling that the 'plane lands' reality is in the same world as the 'plane crashes' reality - the island will still sink, but not until the end of the show, when shortly after the plane will fly over it.

In other words, we will reach the point the island sank by the end of the series (and the lead-up to that on the island which is taking place now), but during the series we will be seeing what happens to the passengers when they landed safely, and what happens to them afterwards.

Anyone ever read 'Girlfriend In A Coma' by Douglas Coupland? The way those who have experienced one reality are left in another with that knowledge of how things could have been - Whatever happens now off the island will be the new way forward, but those still on the island must die for it to happen - therefore, the two stories we are following now - on-island and off-island - are as follows:

The on-island story is leading to the sinking of the island.
The off-island story takes place after the sinking of the island.
Therefore, we will see the death of the lost, and the re-birth of the 'found' (in the aftermath of the reset, and the way it has changed the paths of the people on board the Oceanic flight.)

That's my theory anyway.

[purlieu]

That's interesting, only the 'plane' story is in 2004 and the 'island' story is in 2007.

[ozziechef]

Although it was good it wasn't great.

When Hurley shouted "eerrr Jack", the guard turned round too - i expected them both to be Jack.

As always Locke and Ben stole the show, I'd rather have two hours of them walking in the jungle than most of the Kate stuff.

[dr_christian_troy]

That's interesting, only the 'plane' story is in 2004 and the 'island' story is in 2007.

Do we know that for sure? The 'plane' story may only have just happened due to the reset (it could be 2004, but then because of the reset the events leading to the flight may have occured three years later). Even if that wasn't the case, the island may have been 'moved' again by that point. If the island can move through time, despite the actions that take place upon the island, it may be different to the events occuring beyond the island. It has been (mostly) 'unseen' to the outside world, and this would also further the mystery as to how folks such as Richard could travel to the outside world set in certain eras (the birth of Locke for one).

The appearance of Desmond as the Constant on the plane could also hint at the way in which time corresponds to events on the island. His appearance and disappearance could be an implication that the island still exists somewhere in time, but not when the plane crosses over it.

Even if this is completely not the case, it's still good to theorise and go 'but ah, do you see?', otherwise my brain would melt!

[dr_christian_troy]

Oddly enough, I was just reading through theories posted on televisionwithoutpity, and someone else has just put up the same theory as I have (albeit explained far better than I have), and the same response regarding the timeline was bought up. However, he responded with an explanation of a potential timeloop on the island, so I'll remain partially optimistic about that particular theory for now.

[Ja'moke]

Yeah, I've heard that theory mentioned elsewhere, it's definitely plausible but I'm not fully convinced yet.

A nice article from the NY times here about the premiere, spoiler-free, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/arts/television/04lost.html?ref=television

[Ginyard]

OK, just watched the 2nd half.

Already two of my favourite episodes, so much there to absorb and yet a few questions answered along the way. The music was first rate. Giacchino works with a pretty small and limited ensemble (by LA scoring standards), just strings, 'bones, percussion and synths, yet its because of this economy that the series has had such an wonderfully recognisable sonic signature. This 2-hour spectacular really showed off his invention, especially that terrific 'Sabre Dance' moment when we dive into the sea to observe the sunken island, and the temple moment, when the increasingly shrill syncopated muted brass with that simple little Max Steineresque apache-like tune add to the fear and awe of the losties, but with a touch of almost sarcastic humour. Nobody ever seems to mention Giacchino, but the guy's A grade abilities have contributed so much.

So man in black IS smokey? Pretty much confirms what most were thinking, although why he's stopped by ash circles and sonic fences is still a big mystery. Obviously he's incredibly old as he showed up in those ancient temple pictures  -  maybe even that's how he was created. A bit like Zod & co in superman, maybe he's outlawed from them and somehow transmogrified into this black, foggy spectre. The fact that he wants to get 'home' makes me think that he's been outlawed from somewhere else or another time long ago (or maybe another planet?...hehe) and that Jacob, by design, prevents that.

Sayid is reborn. He's Jacob? No, I don't think so because he had no idea what happened. He's probably still Sayid, but maybe a new super Sayid that's ripe for a wizard fuelled kung-fu showdown with fake Locke (I wish we knew what his name was). Mind you, his accent sounds pretty weird. He sounded less like an Irai torturer and more like Charlie or Widmore.

The temple's cool, and it seems clear they are the black rock bunch. All very old then, like Richard?

Jack seemed shocked to see his reflection. At times it felt that he knows far more than we realise at this juncture. the way he said 'nothing's irreversible' was intruiging.

Another thing I found interesting is Charlie being brought back to life on the plane. He died on the island. Linked in some way?

Ah, fuck it, I'm completely knackered and there's way too much to think about. Just good to see Locke and Jack have some pleasant time together and that marshall get his teeth kicked in again.

[TotalNightmare]

I would just like to jump in and salute the music in Lost - some of it is brilliantly iconic and it never drowns out the action (Unlike Who's score - and i fucking love some of that music, but at times, its often at 11 in the actual episode), but like all great scores, serves the emotion first and not the action.

So yes, another 'thumbs up' for the music.

[HappyTree]

I'll need to watch the eps again to get everything that happened. But I didn't even notice the music at all.

[Moribunderast]

The music actually bothers me at times. It tends to be quite over the top. I remember the second last episode of Season 5 actually had me and my roommate laughing at how ridiculous it was. It always seems to go "Someone says something vague and seemingly important... STRINGS!!!"

That aside, I just lump that in with my other small qualms about the show and promptly push them aside when an episode starts. Having given up on the show during the painfully dull opening episodes of the third season, the CaB thread for Season 5 actually convinced me to give it another go. Being able to smash through Season 3 on DVD was most helpful and then, as is well established, the show became better than it's ever been in Season 4 and that momentum is still going.

I've never been huge on researching theories and reading too deeply into the show (partially because many sites that do that tend to be a bit spoilery) but I am enjoying reading the theories in this thread as they're posed by people who only know was much as I do about where everything's headed.

To me, Lost is a pretty fluffy show but it's incredibly fun and has been very engaging for the past two and a half seasons. As long as they answer most of the questions raised and don't leave any gaping plot holes I'll be happy. Thank God there's a bunch of other good shows on at the moment to keep me occupied, otherwise the weekly wait would be shitful.

As for the first two eps of this season, the opening hour was fantastic and the second was only slightly less so. Fake Locke's speech was fantastic (even though it ended on one of Lost's trademark "Say something vague that nobody asks for more information on" lines) and the ending with Sayid, whilst very predictable, has me intrigued. I'm convinced he's changed in the same way young Ben was but what that means for the future of the show I've no idea. Eagerly anticipating the next episode. And the one after and so on.

[Ginyard]

The music actually bothers me at times. It tends to be quite over the top.

I think the tongue-in-cheek quality is intentional. Its sort of a tribute/re-evocation to/of an older approach to scoring. Bare in mind they're on an island with a smoke monster and polar bears. You need something rather hysterical at times to help match the action.

[AsparagusTrevor]

I watched the double episode last night, good opener which threw a few more questions into the mix whilst answering a couple as well.

Right, so I know a lot of us had guessed Fake Locke and Smokey were probably the same Evil Dude, it was nice to have it confirmed. Now we just need to know who he is, and why he does what he does. Also, I'm not convinced he's responsible for every dead-person manifestation, probably Jacob has something to do with those too. Maybe Evil Dude can take on the form of dead people, and Jacob can take over the bodies of dead people? I dunno.

I know they've got to keep Terry O'Quinn in the show, but I hope we see him take on other forms, like the one we saw talking to Jacob in 'The Incident' for example. It makes little sense for him to constantly be Locke now he doesn't have to use the guise to deceive the group.

The alternate reality thing. I noticed the little differences in the flight parallelled events that happen to the characters on the island, basically showing how fate is fate. For example, Charlie dying, being saved, he was always meant to die and on the island this was just postponed every time he was saved. Jack saved him the first time on the island too, much in the same way. Rose and Bernard were separated, then reunited and very much in love. Jack's father's corpse went missing like on the island. Boone still looked up to Locke like a hero. I suppose this is cementing the 'fate' aspect of the show.

Back on the island... I agree with the theories about the hostiles being slaves from the Black Rock, like how Fake Locke told Richard it was nice to see him free of his chains. Maybe he was speaking metaphorically though, but I'd like to think this late on they won't chuck up more mysteries like that.

The temple. Healing Sayid, I wonder if that's like a Pet Semetary type thing, they come back wrong. You could say Ben came back wrong when he was healed by it, although he'd had a shit childhood too, but a lot of warnings were given when Ben was healed that he'd 'lose his innocence'.

I'm intrigued to how Juilet knew "it worked", if indeed she was talking about the reality-changing bomb plot. I wonder if we'll see her again or if that's it for Juilet (with her doing V)?

The underwater CGI shot was awful even by TV standards. No motion blur and overly glossy and smooth textures combined with unrealistic camera movements were the culprits. Not important I suppose, it got the idea across.

All in all, can't wait for next week. I might rewatch it tonight on Sky1 to make sure I've taken everything in.

[hpmons]

Mind you, his accent sounds pretty weird. He sounded less like an Irai torturer and more like Charlie or Widmore.

I was wondering whether it was my imagination - after all he only said two words - but re-watching it, his accent definitely sounds very English.

[Custard]

To be honest though, Naveen Andrew's Iraqi accent slips into an english one quite a bit to mine earholes.

I think he'll deffo still be Sayid, but like Ben, he's been slightly changed somehow. I'm really hoping its not Widmore in there, anyway!

Its all building up to a Neo/Agent Smith stylee mega-punchup with Super-Locke anyway, innit.

[Squink]

Here's a split-screen of the scenes of Jack in the airplane in seasons 1 and 6:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-1qzelSWpE

[wearyworld]

Just watched it. I'm torn. I kind of enjoyed it, and kind of like the idea of the two time-lines (as long as they start to merge and affect one another and somehow meet or converge), but the Los Angeles timeline went precisely nowhere in the opening two episodes - it took them an entire two hour première to get off the plane. Surely they could have covered that in one, one and a half, and given us a tease of how they might intend to play it?

Hmm, I loved the way that it went nowhere, i.e. focused on the characters as they used to be (but changed, obviously). Maybe it's because I've seen a lot of Season 1 recently but John Locke has always been the greatest - and most tragic - character and all his scenes were superb, especially the hints that while things in the alternate timeline may have turned out better for some (especially Hurley), or at least different in some way, Locke seems exactly where he was.

Everyone remember Jack curing the woman who became his wife, who had some 'irreversible' spinal injury? Well they alluded to that here, as if maybe alternate-Locke (as opposed to dead-Locke or fake-Locke) could eventually walk again without the island. I doubt if it's all as straightforward as that since the timelines/realities are definitely linked, but that strangulation scene (Ben/Locke) last season was a horrific way to go out, as they also mentioned when fake-Locke said strangled-Locke's last thought was "I don't understand." Surely that's been flagged up because in some way or another, this other, still-living Locke is going to get the ending he deserves, or at least one in which he dies knowing why.

[purlieu]

Alternative Locke has been on the walkabout instead of being turned away!

I completely agree on his character being by far the most tragic of all of them.  Upon rewatching, the end of Deus Ex Machina had me fighting back tears.  A stunning piece of work.

[Lt Plonker]

Alternative Locke has been on the walkabout instead of being turned away!

No, that was a fib, surely?

[purlieu]

It's possible, but what with everyone else having a different backstory I can't see it would be.

[JesusAndYourBush]

I have a feeling that the 'plane lands' reality is in the same world as the 'plane crashes' reality - the island will still sink, but not until the end of the show, when shortly after the plane will fly over it.

I said something similar on page 1...

"The scenes on the plane.  I don't think it's a parallel universe. I think it's a flash forward to some time later when they will manage a proper reset."

That's interesting, only the 'plane' story is in 2004 and the 'island' story is in 2007.

Yes, that fits in with the theory perfectly. If they activate a 'reset' in 2007 then the plane in 2004 won't crash.  That'd make the plane story a flashback, a flashback to something that hasn't happened yet.  Time travel can be confusing!

[Ja'moke]

It's possible, but what with everyone else having a different backstory I can't see it would be.

But he was still in a wheelchair, could he really go on a walkabout, hunting etc? It seemed he was just pretending, to sound cooler to Boone.

[AsparagusTrevor]

Don't tell Locke what he can't do!

[mjwilson]

But he was still in a wheelchair, could he really go on a walkabout, hunting etc? It seemed he was just pretending, to sound cooler to Boone.

I want to believe that the alt-Walkabout tour just accommodated Locke and allowed him to join in, but that's probably because I'm amenable to coercion.

Is the cut on Jack's neck similar to the brand Juliet received when the Others kicked her out?

[Custard]

Terry O'Quinn has been far and way the best actor in the whole show, for me. He portrays Locke in such a moving, heartbreaking way that it actually hurts to watch at times.

Here he is, celebrating my post, earlier today

[Ginyard]

mib...ap

[purlieu]

There are so many lovely moments, just in flashbacks when you see Locke and he always smiles at people.  O'Quinn plays him as such a decent, kind-hearted character, seeing him finally have meaning and direction only to be killed by Ben and not even know why is heartbreaking.

[Custard]

I really think he'll be given a happy (or at least somehow uplifting) ending, though. Maybe in the alternate timeline, Helen won't die. And now he's landed safely (?) in LA X, then maybe he can reconcile with her, or Jack may even manage to "fix" him so he can walk again?

I think he's the character most viewers will want to see get a happy ending, so i can see the writers deffo going that way. Somehow.

Jack goes off with Kate, Sawyer with Juliet, Claire with Aaron (if she's even pregnant?), Sunn with Jinn, and Hurley with Charlie and 2 syringes.

'Appy days.

[Ja'moke]

This is kinda cool. They released a special Season 5 dvd that included a Dharma Orientation Kit, and with it came an 'official' copy of 'The Truce', complete with bitchy comments from Richard Alpert.

LETTER OF TRUCE (Alpert notes 8/15/73)

RESOLUTION OF 15 AUGUST 1973

The DHARMA Initiative and the indigenous island inhabitants,

Desiring to bring about cessation of hostilities on the island without prejudice to the rights, claims and position of either the indigenous island inhabitants or DHARMA Initiative recruits and employees, < Goodspeed, is the "legal" language necessary?

1. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to order a cessation of all actions of armed force in perpetuity going forward from this date; Fix period - Finite

2. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to refrain from introducing fighting personnel into the DHARMA Initiative or the indigenous inhabitant's camps during the cease-fire;

3. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to refrain from mobilizing or submitting a military (We're not the ones with uniforms) army for training during the cease-fire;

4. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to refrain from importing or exporting war materials (Please define war materials) into the DHARMA Initiative or the indigenous inhabitant's camps during the cease-fire;

5. Urge all authorities and leaders concerned to take every possible precaution for the protection of the island, including all [shrines and sanctuaries] (I've included more specific language on this in our counters) used for whatever purposes by those who have an established right to visit them;

6. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to respect the established boundaries of the DHARMA Initiative and the indigenous inhabitant's camps and a zone of five kilometers surrounding each camp, and to not infiltrate or attack these areas during the cease-fire;

[7. Urge all authorities and leaders concerned to respect the established right of the citizens of each camp to live freely within their community and to not fear attack during the cease-fire;] Redundant - we get it.

8. Instruct the DHARMA Initiative and the indigenous inhabitants to create security teams, in concert with a mediator, to supervise the observance of above provisions, and provide them with a sufficient number of security observers;

9. Instruct the mediators to make contact with all parties as soon as the cease-fire is in force with a view to carrying out his functions; I will be our mediator, you will be DHARMA's

10. Instruct the mediators to make [periodic] (Is this necessary?) reports to each party as mutually decided upon during the cease-fire; Our willingness to allow your presence should not be mistaken as continued opportunities for diplomacy.

11. Invite the mediators of the DHARMA Initiative and the indigenous inhabitants to communicate their acceptance of the resolution not later than sundown on 16 August 1973;

12. Decide that if the present resolution is rejected by either party or by both, or if, having been accepted, it is subsequently repudiated or violated, the situation on the island will be reconsidered with a view to military action and swift reprisal;

13. Call upon all authorities and leaders concerned to take all possible steps to assist in the implementation of this resolution.

Adopted this day. 16 August 1973. Agreed and accepted to.

Richard's counters:

Counters / addendums (transcript)

    * If the DHARMA Initiative enters or violates any preexisting ruins on the island, the truce is violated.

    * If the DHARMA Initiative digs or drills any more than ten meters into the ground, even in their designated territory, the truce is violated.

    * The DHARMA Initiative pledges its term of residency will last no longer than fifteen years. At the end of this term all facilities and personnel are to leave the island.

    * The D.I. can only maximum population of D.I. members cannot exceed 216 at any one time on the island.

[purlieu]

Very interesting, that explains why the Swan station was so shrouded in secrecy, and possibly why the purge happened.

[HappyTree]

I just realised that the actor who plays Jacob in Lost also plays Lucifer in Supernatural. Is he getting typecast as archetypal deities?