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Metropolis - the restored "directors cut"

Started by Santa's Boyfriend, February 08, 2010, 11:14:23 PM

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An tSaoi

Maybe a better example for your argument would be Triumph of the Wills? Very influential film, but also shite.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 10, 2010, 04:19:34 PM
My film studies course assured me that Intolerance was an extremely influential film in terms of its sheer scale and ambition, not to mention its technical qualities, its editing and production design. It was certainly a key film, not just in America, but in Europe and Russia in pushing cinema away from a bloke kicking a policeman up the arse in a park to something that could tackle complex stories

I've seen it and its absolute shit.
Here's the rub. Opinion about film is not universally held – and although there are those that will cite Intolerance as being hugely influential, there are others that have argued that this wasn't the case. In any case, the real point I was making that it's really two films Griffiths contributed.

I appreciate that you did a film studies course, but one of my lecturers – an international expert in European history - said that Goring was Minister for Economics; doesn't mean it's right.

Maybe another thread would be the more appropriate place for this kind of discussion? Personally, I think some would rather discuss Metropolis.

Quote from: An tSaoi on February 10, 2010, 04:27:54 PM
Maybe a better example for your argument would be Triumph of the Wills? Very influential film, but also shite.
Think you have one to many 's', but no, not a better example – unless we're going to down the 'I think it's shit, therefore it is a shit film' route.

vrailaine

Is this a "name legendary old films that you think were atrocious and get away with it cos they were from primitive times" thread then?

I insist on flinging All Quiet On The Western Front in, if it is. Primitive meaning early in the talkie film era, that is.

biggytitbo

Don't get me wrong, a lot of these very old films are very interesting from an historical and technical point of view, Metropolis certainly is. But strip them of their historical import and they're not good films in the way I'd judge a film today - good story, character development and acting, narrative drive etc. When critics get very precious about these films its a bit like when you go to see a Shakespeare play at school and your teacher is sat at the front pretending to laugh uproariously at all the 'jokes'.

vrailaine

I agree with you 100% particularly the teacher at Shakespeare bit

JesusAndYourBush

I just found out that a 147 minute version is being shown on German/French channel ARTE on 12th Feb.  Presumably containing some(but not all?) missing scenes?  I used to have that channel on satellite but the dish is no longer connected to anything and the satellites been decommisioned anyway.
http://www.arte.tv/fr/mouvement-de-cinema/cinema-muet/3049778.html
Looks like they're having a whole evening on it.
http://www.arte.tv/fr/mouvement-de-cinema/cinema-muet/690880.html


Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: rudi on February 10, 2010, 12:42:11 AM
The copy found, though, was in a shocking state; I've seen it.

Hang on a minute...  How have you seen it?  There's a story there, surely?

Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 10, 2010, 06:38:42 PM
Don't get me wrong, a lot of these very old films are very interesting from an historical and technical point of view, Metropolis certainly is. But strip them of their historical import and they're not good films in the way I'd judge a film today - good story, character development and acting, narrative drive etc.

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that you really can't strip a film of its historical import - or perhaps more specificly you can't strip them of the era in which they wre made.  This is true of all films, but of science fiction most of all, because science fiction is never truly talking about the future, it's talking about the time in which it's made.  It was made to entertain, sure, and you could argue that this should be timeless.  But I don't think it ever is.  It's like not seeing the wood for the trees I suppose, you can't really say what it is about a film that reflects its era until you've left that era behind you.  But Metropolis' themes are fairly timeless - it's far more hamstrung by being a silent movie than its story.

Here's a vague comparison: The Terminator is a great film, but it's a far better film if you consider the time in which it was made - Regan, evil empire and so on.  In fact, if you fail to consider the difference in both global and American politics between the first and second films, the difference between them makes no real sense.  I also remember talking to kids not long ago who wouldn't watch a film made earlier than 1990 because the special effects were so poor compared to what they were used to that it lifted them out of the film (or as they put it, "they're crap").

Lfbarfe

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on February 10, 2010, 08:46:26 PM
I just found out that a 147 minute version is being shown on German/French channel ARTE on 12th Feb.  Presumably containing some(but not all?) missing scenes?  I used to have that channel on satellite but the dish is no longer connected to anything and the satellites been decommisioned anyway.

I mentioned Arte showing it on the previous page. I'll be recording the evening, as Astra 19.2E is still carrying Arte.

Papercut

Quote from: An tSaoi on February 09, 2010, 05:51:08 PM
I wasn't suggesting that at all. Going back to The Good the Bad and the Ugly example, the restored version of it was the original version as well, but the previously absent elements weren't of sufficient quality to be included with the rest of the film. It was simply too late. They had to rerecord the audio track, so it wasn't fully representative of the original version.
That isn't exactly right.

It wasn't that there was a neglected original version as such, the longer version was the Italian dubbed release, whereas the original English release ran 15 mins shorter. The cameras were so noisy during filming that all the dialogue was later looped in on both.

The recently restored version has the additional scenes from the Italian release inserted and redubbed (as there would not have been an original English dub for the extra scenes). The Italian version was in poorer condition, but it isn't exactly a restoration, there were just two different original versions of the film.

They did a great job cleaning it up, even though it probably doesn't need those extra 15 mins...

An tSaoi

Okay, the dubbing couldn't be helped, but the picture quality still has a noticeable dip. I suppose a batter example is Das Boot, a it's also German and also quite long. The extended version of it is awful - there's a nasty scrape running down the middle of every shot not found in the shorter version. I think films reach a point where it's too late to start sticking the old decaying elements back in unless as a curiosity.

biggytitbo

The extra footage added in the directors cut of the Wicker man is bad old VHS found in the attic quality. Mainly because that's essentially what it was.

Santa's Boyfriend

Are you sure?  I thought it was a print that was sent to an American film producer just before the film was cut by the studio.  It's certainly better quality than you'd expect from a VHS.

biggytitbo

It was a video tape transfer of that print, that print is lost I think. You can definitely tell because the quality of the inserts on the Directors cut DVD is cack. Going to look even more conspicuous on the blu ray *

*Although the theatrical cut is better anyway

Santa's Boyfriend


Lfbarfe

Watching this live on Arte now. The whole thing is incredibly exciting. I was going to record it and watch it later for the sake of family harmony, but wife and child seem mesmerised by it too. They're using the best available materials for each bit, and the majority looks gorgeous, as you'd expect. Ooooh, first restored section. The quality is grotty, but Lang obviously meant that bit to be there, so that's good enough for me.

Small Man Big Horse

If you want to see lots of presumably very cold people watching the film - and see a tiny, tiny version of it yourself - thanks to this newfangled internet technology you now can! http://liveweb.arte.tv/en/video/Metropolis__Version_allemande_/

Santa's Boyfriend

Wow, it's snowy in Berlin.  It really looks cold!

EDIT:  Is that the east side or west side?

Lfbarfe

Quote from: biggytitbo on February 09, 2010, 10:13:37 AM
I'm really interested in the restoration of old films, but god oh mighty is that film boring.

Boring? Obviously, it would be a dull old world if we all agreed on everything, but this is just about one of the least boring films I've ever seen.

JesusAndYourBush

As coincidence would have it I just finished watching the 2002 Restored 118 min version for the first time. OMG!  It makes so much sense now.  It was like watching a totally different film!  Previously I'd only seen a couple of the 75-80 min versions and after having now seen the 118 min version it seems that the shorter versions had a lot of the captions missing and without those it's meaningless.  Right now I want that Moroder's head on a plate.

Someone give us a heads-up if the Arte version becomes available anywhere.

Lfbarfe

Some screengrabs from last night's transmission. First, some from the existing sections. I believe they used the 2001 restoration.





Now some from the reinstated sections. Balls to the picture quality. The missing bits are mostly vital links in the film. Without them, it makes far less sense.






JesusAndYourBush

Looks ok.  Film restoration can work wonders these days, maybe with more work they'll find a way to get those "creases" out.  I hope the DVD doesn't have those borders around the newly found bits, that could get annoying if it kept flipping between border and no border.

Lfbarfe

A search for 'metropolis arte "restored version" torrent' could be well worthwhile.

An tSaoi

Hold on, are those horribly scraped scenes from after the restoration? If that's supposed to be a vast improvement, then it must have been in an awful state beforehand.

Lfbarfe

Quote from: An tSaoi on February 13, 2010, 03:42:50 PM
Hold on, are those horribly scraped scenes from after the restoration? If that's supposed to be a vast improvement, then it must have been in an awful state beforehand.

It was. The restorer said it was the worst quality of anything he'd ever worked on. I'll get some screengrabs from the documentary later.

NoSleep

Quote from: Lfbarfe on February 13, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
A search for 'metropolis arte "restored version" torrent' could be well worthwhile.

So I see.

Lfbarfe


rudi

Quote from: Lfbarfe on February 13, 2010, 03:27:46 PM
A search for 'metropolis arte "restored version" torrent' could be well worthwhile.

If I were to put that advice into action I'd probably want to thank you ever so much.

Santa's Boyfriend

Non-German speakers would presumably have to wait a while for subs though.

Lfbarfe