Author Topic: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films  (Read 5437 times)

An tSaoi

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2010, 11:56:38 PM »
No, the scrape is just in the scenes that weren't in either the theatrical version or director's cut. This is the version I have. I presume you have this version?

Glebe

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2010, 06:24:06 PM »
The Shining is a film that exists in two alternate cuts.  The US version is roughly 25 minutes longer than the European cut, (I had a copy from the late 80s when ITV would show this in the early hours/Nightscreen period).  I lost this years ago, so this is  going from my memory; the most prominent cut being the doctor, who inspects Danny after his first blackout prior to the trip to the hotel, there's more of the initial tour of the hotel on closing day 'perfect for a child... well it's roomy', there are little bits of top and tails to scenes, (for example, a whole converstation between Wendy and Danny before the bedroom scene where jack is taking to Danny).  Halloran's journey back to the hotel, during the blizzard, is longer as is the climax, (including Wendy finding a long table surrounded by guests).

I'm guessing the cuts where to do with pacing up the film?  I do prefer the longer cut as it's more psychological and you do get more of a sense of isolation and stewing before all hell breaks loose.  Worth finding if you're interested?

What's more interesting is the Kubrik was still cutting the film during it's initial release.  After a few weeks open in the US he decided to cut down scenes, or lose them altogether, including a coda where we see Wendy in hospital.

A mate of mine has that ITV verison taped too. The Wendy-in-hospital coda version was apparently screened on Australian TV some years ago.

Luckily the Bluray is region free so if you have a PS3 or another bluray player it will play.  Expensive tho (about £38 on import)

Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2010, 08:18:47 PM »
When watching the Blade Runner:Final Cut a few years back I was taken aback by one of the changes.  The scene in question is the famous Batty/Tyrell confrontation and the line being 'I want more life, fucker'.  This was the line I grew up with watching BR countless times on the old Warner Home Video VHS.  I'm also certain the line was the same in the '92 Director's cut, (which I saw in the cinema), and picked up on DVD at the tail end of the 90s.

In the final cut this has changed to [spoiler]I want more life, father.[/spoiler]

In the making of, and in Future Noir, there are no mentions of this change.  Have I been imagining it all this time?  Could the latter have been in the '82 theatrical version, only to have been replaced, (in a mix up), with the former, alternative take?

Also, post head-squashing, Batty's taunting and chasing of Sebastian is, now, just silly.  The old cut just had extraordinary power, you saw Sebastian try to run, Batty leave frame, the owl blink and then a great cut to Batty's POV of the stars out of the glass elevator.  The sound/music was extraordinary, now it's spoilt by Batty sounding like a camp bogeyman.  I don't have the old cuts to hand.  Is this just my memory making stuff up, has it always been this way?


An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2010, 09:25:18 PM »
The scene in question is the famous Batty/Tyrell confrontation and the line being 'I want more life, fucker'.

In the final cut this has changed to [spoiler]I want more life, father.[/spoiler]

Quote from: IMDb
Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer)'s odd meld of "father" and "fucker" after he says to Tyrell, "I want more life" is deliberate. Hauer was instructed to pronounce it in such a way that it could be both; "fucker" was to be used in the theatrical cut, "father" in all versions of the film for TV.

It seems he was always saying 'Farker', so they could loop it either way. Personally I think 'Father' works far better.

it's spoilt by Batty sounding like a camp bogeyman

Well that must be the whole film spoiled for you then ;)

Santa's Boyfriend

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2010, 11:29:50 PM »
No, the scrape is just in the scenes that weren't in either the theatrical version or director's cut. This is the version I have. I presume you have this version?

No, I've got the same version as you.  Wierd.

Perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

Glebe

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2010, 08:22:48 AM »
When watching the Blade Runner:Final Cut a few years back I was taken aback by one of the changes.  The scene in question is the famous Batty/Tyrell confrontation and the line being 'I want more life, fucker'.  This was the line I grew up with watching BR countless times on the old Warner Home Video VHS.  I'm also certain the line was the same in the '92 Director's cut, (which I saw in the cinema), and picked up on DVD at the tail end of the 90s.

In the final cut this has changed to [spoiler]I want more life, father.[/spoiler]

In the making of, and in Future Noir, there are no mentions of this change.  Have I been imagining it all this time?  Could the latter have been in the '82 theatrical version, only to have been replaced, (in a mix up), with the former, alternative take?

Also, post head-squashing, Batty's taunting and chasing of Sebastian is, now, just silly.  The old cut just had extraordinary power, you saw Sebastian try to run, Batty leave frame, the owl blink and then a great cut to Batty's POV of the stars out of the glass elevator.  The sound/music was extraordinary, now it's spoilt by Batty sounding like a camp bogeyman.  I don't have the old cuts to hand.  Is this just my memory making stuff up, has it always been this way?

I recall Scott being quoted in Future Noir as saying the line was changed for a TV version. Obviously he thought it had more meaning, so he stuck it in TFC. I don't think Batty is really taunting Sebastian. In TFC (as in another version - not sure which one off-hand) he says - earnestly - [spoiler]"Sorry, Sebastian." (Batty is clearly beginning to go a bit haywire at this stage, in any case.)[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 09:44:40 AM by Glebe »

biggytitbo

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2010, 12:43:16 PM »
The holy grail for me would be the legendary long version of the best Holmes film ever - The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes featuring 2 extra stories. Apparently one the lost stories only exists as sound and one only exists as film, so I might be waiting a long time.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2010, 12:58:17 PM »
They could play them both at the same time

Vitalstatistix

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2010, 01:48:56 PM »
Man, I hate that 'international version' of Leon.

I don't want to know this much about his back-story, the mystery of the original works so much better. Also, the additional scenes where he takes the girl on some jobs are ridiculous.

I really can't believe anyone would see it as an improvement...

Johnny Textface

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2010, 01:52:51 PM »
The alternative cut of Alien 3 in the box set (it's not a "directors' cut", Fincher didn't do it) is heaps better than the original.
I disagree, mind you - they're both shit.

Has anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven and is it any good? Apparently there is a 3 hour + directors cut which is fantastic.. ?

Also, on a Ridley Scott tip, has anyone seen the directors cut of Legend? Apparently the soundtrack has been replaced ??

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2010, 03:07:33 PM »
I disagree, mind you - they're both shit.

Has anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven and is it any good? Apparently there is a 3 hour + directors cut which is fantastic.. ?

Also, on a Ridley Scott tip, has anyone seen the directors cut of Legend? Apparently the soundtrack has been replaced ??

Yep, two soundtracks, one by Jerry Goldsmith and one by the band Tangerine Dream. There are also apparently four different cuts of the film in existence. Look on imdb.

The 80's film version of Nineteen Eighty-Four also had two entirely different soundtracks. An orchestral score by Dominic Muldowney and one by the Eurythmics. Due to rights issues the orchestral score version is the only one that's ever broadcast on TV, although I think it works much better to be honest.

mrfridge

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2010, 03:17:51 PM »
Man, I hate that 'international version' of Leon.

I don't want to know this much about his back-story, the mystery of the original works so much better. Also, the additional scenes where he takes the girl on some jobs are ridiculous.

I really can't believe anyone would see it as an improvement...

Agreed, the longer version sucks balls. Why would a grown man, an assassin no less, take a little girl out on hits with him? He may be childlike in his mannerisms but Leon's not an idiot and would surely not want to corrupt this little girl who he seems to care about so much. All those scenes are daft and the love story between the two (if you can call it that) works much better with certain things left unsaid, things that in the directors cut are laid out bare.

The original version is one of my favourite films, so it's amazing how easily an inappropriate cut can really damage it.

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2010, 04:50:11 PM »
No, I've got the same version as you.  Wierd.

Perhaps I just wasn't paying attention.

Well, next time you're watching the film look out for it and let me know if I'm the only one who has a duff transfer.

vrailaine

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2010, 05:27:37 PM »
I like the alternate ending to Rocky Balboa, makes you feel more thankful for the actual ending, which was silly enough.
Alternate endings are good for that in general, aren't they?

Santa's Boyfriend

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2010, 05:42:29 PM »
Well, next time you're watching the film look out for it and let me know if I'm the only one who has a duff transfer.

Will do.

Man, I hate that 'international version' of Leon.

I really can't believe anyone would see it as an improvement...

We don't really, we're all just going along with it 'cos it makes us look cool.

:-)

Has anyone seen Kingdom of Heaven and is it any good? Apparently there is a 3 hour + directors cut which is fantastic.. ?

Yeah I've seen it, and it's undoubtedly far superior to the theatrical cut, and is a much more comfortable viewing experience too - the film feels like it's supposed to be that long.  As long as you're able to watch it over a couple of evenings or at least go to the toliet during the intermission, anyway.

But it's not really fantastic.  The problem is that no matter how much you cg, put in and take out, you've still got Orlando Bloom as your main character.  He's woefully miscast, and it drags down what should have been a killer film to merely good (albeit with killer visuals).  It's not his fault, he is what he is - but if someone more rugged and with genuine charisma had been cast, it would have been so much better.  But the film does make a lot more sense, and the decisions he makes are much clearer and more logical in this version.  But he makes the character feel underdeveloped, and his decisions seem to arbitrary, whereas a better actor would have carried it through.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2010, 05:52:40 PM »
Has anyone seen the 144 minute version of Once Upon A Time In America? What on earth must that be like? Apparently it's chronological too.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2010, 06:24:06 PM »
The holy grail for me would be the legendary long version of the best Holmes film ever - The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes featuring 2 extra stories. Apparently one the lost stories only exists as sound and one only exists as film, so I might be waiting a long time.

I'd do anything to see the full piece. Wilder is my favourite director and it's a testament to his greatness that the picture survived such a heavy edit.

The 'restored' Touch of Evil is great.

Isn't the 'current' Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid a sort of compromise between the original edit and the full directors cut? I like that.

VegaLA

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2010, 02:34:19 AM »

I can't keep track of which Dawn Of The Dead (1978) I think is the best cut.

I've not seen that movie for 6 years now and have this fan edit version i'm itching to view. I think its called the 'After hours Edit'. There's a FanEdit thread somewhere around here.....

biggytitbo

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2010, 07:59:37 AM »
I'd give anything to see the full 4 hour directors cut of Carry On Matron.

Santa's Boyfriend

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2010, 09:44:55 AM »
Or the 36 hour cut of 24.

An tSaoi

  • The Prodigal Cunt
Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2010, 01:31:34 PM »
I'm waiting for the extended version of Warhol's Empire to get a DVD release.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2010, 01:41:30 PM »
I wonder if there's an extended cut of Napalm Death's 'You Suffer' video that lasts 2 seconds. Self indulgent.

Desi Rascal

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2010, 03:26:17 PM »
Has anyone seen the 144 minute version of Once Upon A Time In America? What on earth must that be like? Apparently it's chronological too.

 Its not entirely chronological, i haven't seen the theatrical cut,[spoiler]at the end deniro returns to the 1930s opiate den and lights up, alluding to the idea that the more supernatural elements/plot holes that develop in the second part are an elaborate pipe dream.all in all a bit of a shaggy dog tale[/spoiler]

apparently the American theatrical cut of Memento was in chronological order too

Marty McFly

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2010, 04:42:57 PM »
apparently the American theatrical cut of Memento was in chronological order too

Sounds suspiciously like the hidden 'extra' on the Special Edition DVD, of the film in chronological order, has turned into this myth. But then I could be wrong.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2010, 05:12:18 PM »
Yeah, that forward cut of Memento is DVD only. Unless you were kidding.

I liked the extra scenes on Tron, but I'm very glad they didn't see fit to edit them back in for the 20th anniversary release. The love scene is crazy, and pushes the whole concept way too far.

I also didn't like the International cut of Leon, after seeing it recently (the UK blu ray includes it). Made all the more creepy by the fact the relationship is based roughly on the relationship Luc Besson had with a girl he met when he was 31, and she was 11 or 12, who he then started dating when she was 16 or 17.

In the extras the talking heads have a point though - Leon is deliberately portrayed as emotionally stunted to such a degree that he would never consider a physical relationship. The longer cut still makes that relationship seem stranger and far more inappropriate though.

Trying to think of a longer cut that I really enjoyed... nope, its more fun when a slight bit of censorship gets lifted, like the complete versions of the first two Indiana Jones', or the tweaked Blade Runner.

It is always cool when a longer little-seen cut of a film I've really enjoyed crops up though, and its no loss if the shorter version ends up still being superior. What irritates me is when a newer version replaces an older one, like the Star Wars rehashes. There is no excuse for not including branched versions of a film on disk, with each different cut viewable. Other than milking the audience for a little extra cash later on.

True Romance is one that bugs me, there seem to be three different versions I've seen now, and none really seem to be definitive. The theatrical release is toned down very slightly, the first DVD version was 'uncut' and features a bit more violence, and the director's cut included Alabama shooting Chris Penn at the end instead of one of the gangsters (thats how I remember it in the cinema anyway), and then you have the alternate ending they filmed from Tarantino's original script. I think I favour the original theatrical release, which didn't get a home release...

Serge

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2010, 05:49:01 PM »
I'm waiting for the extended version of Warhol's Empire to get a DVD release.

They're still recording the commentary.

Desi Rascal

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2010, 07:27:03 PM »
Sounds suspiciously like the hidden 'extra' on the Special Edition DVD, of the film in chronological order, has turned into this myth. But then I could be wrong.

  ah it was an urban myth, cheers for clearing that up

Santa's Boyfriend

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2010, 07:39:42 PM »
I also didn't like the International cut of Leon, after seeing it recently (the UK blu ray includes it). Made all the more creepy by the fact the relationship is based roughly on the relationship Luc Besson had with a girl he met when he was 31, and she was 11 or 12, who he then started dating when she was 16 or 17.

In the extras the talking heads have a point though - Leon is deliberately portrayed as emotionally stunted to such a degree that he would never consider a physical relationship. The longer cut still makes that relationship seem stranger and far more inappropriate though.

I love that though.  She's been through an enormous emotional trauma, and has an emergent sexuality.  It's entirely believable to me that Leon would become the focus of that sexuality, and that the trauma would make her more wreckless than she would be otherwise.  It's also entirely clear to me that Leon would never actually grant her a sexual relationship, that his growing love for her is entirely non-sexual.  Because of this it feels safe to me to go much further in exploring that.  It seems to me that it's a very brave film to explore such sexual enfactuation, and I like the fact that it not only acknowledges and explores the fact that twelve year-olds have sexual desires, but also the nature of trauma in shaping someone's behaviour.  There's no quesiton in my mind that Mathilda is heavily traumatised throughout the film, and that it's this trauma that makes her focus on Leon the way she does.

Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2010, 10:48:50 AM »
Very good point, I'm partly convinced. There is still something more uncomfortable about it in the longer cut for me though. Maybe just Leon's discomfort, and lack of understanding. Maybe just knowing where the story comes from makes the whole thing a little too creepy.

I hadn't properly considered the effect of trauma on Mathilda's, but that does make more sense of it.

Hmm, her burgeoning sexuality is indicated reasonably well in the shorter version, I probably just prefer that it isn't dwelt on.

Glebe

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Re: Extended/Alternate Versions Of Films
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2010, 11:19:52 AM »
I've not seen that movie for 6 years now and have this fan edit version i'm itching to view. I think its called the 'After hours Edit'. There's a FanEdit thread somewhere around here.....

I think I read somewhere that Romero prefers the theatrical cut. The extended cut has scenes with armed police fighting zombies in an apartment building, doesn't it? Its a while since I saw it. Argento's cut has the gang in the deparment store piling up zobies at one point, I thinlk. I love Goblin's score.