[Muso] - Ninjam (& other software to enable live online jamming)

[NoSleep]

Have musos on here tried Ninjam? It works like this:

Normally the problem with musicians trying to play together online is the time-lag. We've tried this on Skype before, during CaB Radio casts; you can't interact with the other musicians properly because you don't hear them quickly enough.
There some online jamming software, like eJamming that work by minimising the lag, but the drawback is that the best scenario is to use these alongside working with musicians who are quite local to you; so no jams between UK and Australia are possible.

Ninjam skirts this problem (and is FREE!!!) by delaying everybody involved by a measured amount. The important thing is to determine how long this amount (called an interval) is. The length of the interval is determined by tempo (BPM=beats per minute) and the number of beats at this tempo (BPI=beats per interval). So, for example, you set a tempo of 100BPM for 16BPI: ie 4 bars of 4/4 at 100BPM. You hear the a metronome counting the tempo at 100BPM with an accented beat every 16th time to determine the start of the "loop".
When you play along to the tempo your performance is stored until the next loop round, and then it is played back in sync to the other performers who, as they play along, are staggered again to the next loop. Surprisingly, it actually works quite well, and feels like you're all playing along to one another in a live situation.
The way it works obviously favours working along with shorter riffs, and with a strong improvisational element to the music - think Krautrock, Terry Riley or 70's Miles Davis. If you wanted to play a 12 bar blues in 4/4, for instance, you'd have to set a loop of 36BPI to allow for the chord changes. Playing song structures would be next to impossible, but who wants to play songs?

Take a look at their website and look at the link, Jam Farm, to try their test servers.

Anyone up for trying this out?

[NoSleep]

Wow, Nige; that sounds awesome.

Can't believe nobody else hasn't responded to this. I've worked out how to run a private server, and I think I have enough bandwidth that I could jam with 3 or 4 players whilst simultaneously casting on CaB Radio. Can you see where I'm going with this?

[NoSleep]

Just had a saturday afternoon test run on the NINJAM test servers with some anonymous others (two guitars, drummer, vocalist in a Damo Suzuki mode, but in french) & myself on bass.

This is the best online game I've ever played.

[Johnny Textface]

I'm gonna have a look into this tonight

[Ambient Sheep]

Wow, Nige; that sounds awesome.

Can't believe nobody else hasn't responded to this.

Sorry...I did read it, and thought it was indeed a terrific idea, but since my PC's on its last legs right now (I'm typing this via the magic of an Ubuntu Live CD as my copy of Windows is a bit scrambled), I'm not really in a position to do anything about it.

Plus my playing's very rusty now anyway, and I was never any good at improvisation, so while I'd love to sit in and listen to a session sometime, I wouldn't be taking part.

Hope you make something of it, though.

[NoSleep]

It's not that easy to set up is it?  I'm having trouble connecting to a host.

Are you using the NINJAM app or the ReaNINJAM plugin in REAPER?

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

So far just the NINJAM app. It asks for a host but offers no options. What's the easiest way to get this up and running?

[NoSleep]

Ah, that's easy... use the public servers which you can view here:

http://autosong.ninjam.com/server-list.php

You can see which ones have players on that way. The host address you have to enter is the "test.ninjam.com:nnnn" bit at the head of each server. Use 2049-2052 only; "session mode" is another thing.

You can also check for more public servers here:

http://ninbot.com/

Top of the left column tracks for servers with users in them, including some extra ones run by ninbot.

IMPORTANT: Enter a username but tick "Anonymous login" as there is no password on these servers. If you don't do this it won't let you connect to the server.

[NoSleep]

If you use the ReaNINJAM plugin in REAPER, it automatically lists the servers and players on them (the NINJAM ones only) and stores any addresses you enter manually. I can give a quick tutorial for connecting via REAPER if anyone's interested.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Things are getting pretty sensual on Nimjob right now.

Have you had much success with many other instruments than guitar? Do people play full songs or ever pass notation around?

[NoSleep]

Sometimes people post chord sequences to help others; that's about all. Better to listen, though. If people aren't getting what you're doing, adapt it to them. You probably heard that happen while we were sorting stuff out. Someone does something, then somebody else misunderstands and everyone goes with the misunderstanding guy because it better than stopping to "sort it out". So the really good players give a little to those of us who are less adept at picking up those jazz changes they are wont to throw out there. Equally, if I come in and there's a bunch of people in full swing and I can't see what it is they're doing, I go look up another jam or start my own elsewhere. Or just listen, although I tend to want to play on something I like the sound of. Some people seem to go on there just to listen in, joining in rarely. There's one guy that just lurks for ages, but when he does start up he's a fantastic muso.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Band members wanted. Must not have own transport.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

This thing is kick ass. Finally got the latency to a more acceptable standard. Thanks NoSleep. I was jamming earlier. Any tracks with "Stitchka" is me.

http://autosong.ninjam.com/index.php

[NoSleep]

I confused a Dutch drummer on there, earlier today. Before I checked his IP I assumed it must be you, because he was "testing", as he said, plus his username was ReneDrums, which I assumed had something to do with Wax Rene. Pointless comments to him about his improved latency.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Ha brilliant. What's the deal with Reaper? How much is it and is it worth getting? Ninjam is fine but it'd be nice to change that metronome sound.

[NoSleep]

Sadly, I'd say the metronome in the NINJAM app is better than the one in REAPER, being a more standard click (certainly on a Mac). And it appears to be unchangeable.

REAPER is a free download and can be used indefinitely without forking out, without any restrictions to the app. Although they request that you pay for it, out of the kindness of your heart. And it's very cheap compared to other similar apps (£40 or so, currently).

The big advantage of REAPER is the ReaNINJAM plugin is more sophisticated than the standalone app. You can add plugin effects etc in REAPER before the NINJAM plugin, too; so I can play bass or guitar through an amp modeller + FX with no problem.

Via the preferences in REAPER, I'm able to easily adjust latency to fit requirements (have to stretch it a bit if i'm FX heavy), given ASIO4All isn't for Macs.

Quick tutorial tomorrow.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Is it possible to change the time sig? Other groupings than 16 etc.

[NoSleep]

Yes;

Code Select Expand

!vote bpi 32

in the chat will give 8 bars of 4/4, for example.

Code Select Expand

!vote bpm 100

will change tempo to... 100bpm

[small_world]

I'm intrigued by this, it'll have to wait until I've got my new router through (thanks again to NoSleep for the advice) but I'll be having a bash probably in the next few weeks.
Can it be run through Ableton[nb]I tried Reaper and wasn't really keen on it, just the layout and look put me off. I get ingrained by things I use, I find it hard to 'learn' layouts and that.[/nb]? I don't really understand how it works. I've only ever heard about it on here... Gonna do a bit of research.

[NoSleep]

Two things about REAPER, regarding NINJAM.

You don't really need to know much about REAPER simply to use it as a medium for connecting to NINJAM; it's by far the best way to do so, as the ReaNinjam plugin is an improvement upon the NINJAM standalone app.

There is fursther fun to be had if you opt to record your NINJams (there some boxes to tick in preferences and it will collect each player's contribution separately, including preserving your own in full WAV quality (other players are saved as OGG). Don't even try to make sense of the individual files created by this recording simply open the "clipsort.log" in the folder as a project and you will have the entire jam up as a REAPER song with each player on individual tracks.

I'll present a little tutorial for using NINJAM with REAPER later on (maybe not today).

Just finished jamming on there with Depressed Beyond Tables this afternoon, which was even more fun than usual, actually knowing somebody from elsewhere than NINJAM itself, and Grizzly, a regular lurker on the servers, actually joined in, which is always a pleasure.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Just listening to it now. Bit of an epic to say the least. Heh.

http://autosong.ninjam.com/mp3.php/20110508_0756_1356-bringkeys-rev-irishdrum-shaftpoll-Grizzly-Manu_Z-NoSleep.mp3

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Gonna try and get that plugin working with Reaper now...

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Found this btw...

http://forum.cockos.com/archive/index.php/t-12578.html

Looking forward to trying it tomorrow.

[small_world]

Wow, that was great. I think I'd be a long-time lurker.
Going to get in to this as soon as possible.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Webstock...

http://autosong.ninjam.com/mp3.php/20110509_1046_4903-irishdrum-andrey_ge-smart_kit-Doc-AD_Bass-zygue-Manu_Z.mp3

We must warn you there are some bad I-dosers going round.