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March 28, 2024, 02:41:15 PM

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Violent videogames get a one sided mauling courtesy of Alan Titchmarsh [split topic]

Started by j_u_d_a_s, March 22, 2010, 01:48:22 PM

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j_u_d_a_s

Violent videogames get a one sided mauling courtesy of Alan Titchmarsh.
Warning: contains Kelvin Mackenzie.
The Alan Titchmarsh Show - "video games promote hatred, violence and sexism"

Needless to say Tim Ingham is easily the most level headed and makes some excellent points in rebuttal. It's obvious he was doomed from the start though, especially when Julie Peasgood gets an ovation. At one point the audience gasp in disbelief when Tim even suggests parents play the games along with their kids. It's all very predictable stuff indeed.

But then I'm reminded of Rob Florence's excellent Gaiden Guide to games violence. Where he makes an impassioned plea to  gamers and the industry to stop buying into violence for its own sake.
Gaiden guide to... games violence - videoGaiden 2.3

It's funny how both Peasgood and Florence are saying pretty much the same thing. But Florence has the intelligence to make wider points and back up what he's saying without resorting to heart over head gallery playing.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I've been playing the Kelvin MacKenzie Decapitation Simulator online for hours. It's the game that keeps on entertaining.

No two beheadings are the same!

Quote from: j_u_d_a_s on March 22, 2010, 01:48:22 PM
The Alan Titchmarsh Show - "video games promote hatred, violence and sexism"

I guess they're right though, because watching that makes me want to take a pair of pliers to Julie Peasgoods teeth and rip them out of her skull one by one. What a fucking clueless fascist piece of shit.

Also, the entire audience of filthy, prole scum.

EDIT: And that FUCKING CUNT who cited the Bulger case and was all like "Venables was corrupted by games". In 1993!? FUCK OFF. How DARE that be broadcast.

Double EDIT: Oh, and that Julie Peasgood? She gives sex tips on TV.

JULIE, YOU'RE CORRUPTING THE NATION'S YOUTH. TEENAGE PREGNANCY JAMIE BULGER SOMEHOW, IT'S ALL ON YOU. I'm off to 4chan to have this bitch destroyed.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Hearing people who know nothing about computer games appoint themselves experts simply because they've seen one second of them at a relative's house and had their sensibilities offended instils an unshakeable predilection for limb-ripping within me.

They'd better ban that quick before I do something I regret to Paul Dacre in the head-legs.

I don't think that the CVG guy was honest when he was talking about polygon violence not being a thrill. Granted, saying "Yes, I like to shoot enemie's heads off. KABLAMMMO!" is handing, uh, ammunition to the anti-games (idiot) side of the debate, but it's closer to the truth.

But I guess it's easier in a short telly debate to say, "Actually, it's about the narrative, not the violence" rather than get into a long-winded explanation of how virtually every videogame player of legal adult age can distinguish between escapist polygon poly-wrongs and real-world immorality, and how the latter is repellant for all (bar a miniscule amount of psychos, who are psycho anyway). Especially when dealing with soundbite cretins and an audience of ignoramuses.

.
But that's the only part I'd have contention with. The lad done good otherwise, even if he was fighting a losing battle. And on a related note, the Swiss legislators are a bunch of censorous cunts.

Wait, you mean it's not 1950s America where you have to sneak in to R-rated movies to see a bit of bloodshed? Christ. Ingham looks a bit too flabbergasted to really respond to that point.

Video games... video nasties... well, it's got the same word, they must be linked...

Kapuscinski

Peasgood? Peasbad:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=239985

QuoteAnd yet a bit of digging... and hey presto. There's the credit for Julie's appearance in survival horror video game Martian Gothic: Unification.

Julie voiced Harroway in the Take Two title, which was released on PC and PlayStation back in 2000.

biggytitbo

"video games promote hatred, violence and sexism"

Funny, I thought that was Kelvin McKenzie!

Big Jack McBastard

Julie Preasgood has the attitude of someone who has never played a decent video game be it shooter/adventure/RPG or otherwise. She's simply playing to a crowd of 'concerned parents' who are really anything but. That audience of performing seals are the same parents who buy their kids these games at christmas with no thought as to their content and then piss and moan once they're sufficiently corralled into complaining about them by some reactionary group or piece of old media news that pulls the 'outrage' lever in their mongoloid brains.

Yeah the excuse can be made for the ratings systems, the 'parental controls' (ha what a joke, as if) and like and while it's a legally binding system it doesn't make the slightest lick of difference if your brat is pining for the next Call of Duty or whatever, the inevitable outcome is the parent caves and buys it because they don't want to have to deal with their mewling pet-lipped sprog ruining their two weeks off in December with bitching about 'that game' they didn't get.

So who is at fault? The company that bows to demand? The kid, teen or adult that creates the demand or the parent who buys their underage spawn an 'inappropriate' game? Or are we missing the point altogether again and trying to attribute fault where there is none?

Can simulated violence really be called violence at all? I question this notion really I do. Shooting or hacking someone's head off in a game yields no repercussions for the protagonist (bar those rare occasions where you're forced to adhere to laws in RPG towns or receive fines/jail time or an endless fight with increasingly hacked off guards, or are forced to re-start in a shooter if you get a bit too 'friendly fire' happy) or the bunch of polygons you hacked to bits, his in game missus and kids are unlikely to exist let alone be so stricken with grief that they do anything drastic that impacts on the player's game in any meaningful way. More to the point, if they did how would it matter? It would simply be another feature in a fucking GAME. These things drip the unbelievable from every pore and yet are held up as examples of 'shocking realism', further proof that these parents don't even look at these games beyond the flashes of them they see when their kid hits 'pause' or when the moral indignation crowd gets their hackles up 6 months too late to have any meaningful impact. (read: Creating more demand)

Christ I say pour this 'violence' down your kids throats by the bucketful, it may prove to be a decent barometer of how mentally challenged they are in real life because any kid who plays a computer game and subsequently goes out and tries to act said game out is overdue a date with natural selection.

I've been playing computer games in one form or another for 24+ years I've seen them go from shitty little sprites on BBCs and ZX Spectrums to full on blockbuster polygon laden pieces of art with more depth and plot than a lot of the shit knocked out by the film industry.

Did Target Renegade make me take up a pool cue and go wailing on fat dyke's heads?

Have I gone out chopping off noggins from playing Conan the Barbarian when I was a nipper?

Did Streets of Rage or Street Fighter encourage me to pick fights in the cul-de-sacs and avenues round my way?

Did Call of Duty inspire me to become a soldier and engage in insane actions of life threatening slaughter?

Did I strangle people to death with garrottes after playing Manhunt or The Godfather?

Have I beaten anyone to death with a length of pipe from playing Condemned for hours on end?

No, on all counts. Why?

Because humans understand there are real life consequences for those kinds of things, yes even innocent little Billy with his controller gripped in his Wotsit stained fingers knows that this is not the kind of shit you do in real life with impunity and if little Billy doesn't know this then we've got to ask what the fuck is wrong with Billy's head? Is he a psychopath because his parents have neglected to teach him how to be a reasoning human for x number of years in his young life, or that he's developed a disregard of human life through witnessing a shit torrent of inhumane acts being meted out by said parents/relations? Is him being a heartless little turd due to a brain problem that cuts off his ability to show empathy? Or is it the game machine in the corner of his room with a war game on it where you can shoot innocent people?

When it comes down to it I can place a significant wager on the latter being blamed on Billy's day in court as it's a damn sight better than admitting you're a shitty parent or your kid's a frigging nutcase.

I've never seen or heard of a convincing argument for videogames 'making' someone a killer, oh it's touted about and spewed out by the news if someone tries to use it as a legal defence but they're always happy to omit or simply mention in passing the fact that the kid also had a collection of knives the like of which would put QVC to shame or the propensity for mutilating animals they had for years before being exposed to the 'horrific game that pushed them over the edge'.

It's bollocks and we all know it is.

Yer man in j_u_d_a_s's video there was fucking broadsided by that loudmouth applause junkie bitch and you saw his face turn when he realised just how one sided the whole thing was going to be once she got going but he's not the one who needs to be defending himself. If these parents and 'concern' groups don't like war/shooter games there's a very easy way to prevent their kids from having them and it's not buying them for them in the first place and then crying wolf like bitches with skinned knees after the fact.

I'm not saying it will halt the tide of kids getting hold of these kinds of games, far from it, kids know how to get them, be it through their mates or just downloading the buggers themselves but at least their dullard parents unwitting, complicit behaviour has a chance to tail off rather than burying themselves and their hollow arguments in an avalanche of their own ignorance.

Fuck me, people are fucking stupid.

edit: spellingz

an excellent and well thought out delivery on all points there Big Jack. I wish had the abaility to articulate myself as well you have just put that!

Shoulders?-Stomach!

If you don't know much about videogames but are concerned about the issue, a handy indicator is the people who think they're evil. Such a huge assortment of cunts it's obvious that they're wrong. Just like with global warming.

Lee Van Cleef

Let's face it, the segment was a chance to bring things back around to the Bulger murder and attempt to weakly tie it in, so as to make everyone feel better about themselves and their bad parenting and go "BOOOO!" at something they don't comprehend.

Some stunning contradictions in the commentary, McKenzie attempts to tie the violence of computer games to the Bulger killers, and prattle on about realistic violence.  It was '93 right?  Those kids would probably have been playing something about as realistic as Mortal Kombat.  Actually not even that, Bulger was murdered 7 months before the original MK was even released.  Maybe it was George Foreman's KO Boxing then?  I don't even remember any mention of videogames back then.

It's funny how things have moved on though, when that occured all the talk was actually abouit video nasties and how it provokes violence and is turning our children into murderers.  In that clip the other panelists gloss over movies because "Videogames are interactive!" 

I also love the bit 1 minute in when they start talking about certification, Tim Ingham makes the point that videogames, like movies, have age-ratings on them.  Titchmarsh counters "But they're at home..." and Ingham's face drops into this "You aren't that stupid are you?" sort of look as he realises he's talking to a fucking reactionary imbecile, then he smirks as he realises that he's the guest pinata.

Jemble Fred

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on March 25, 2010, 12:36:36 PM
Some stunning contradictions in the commentary, McKenzie attempts to tie the violence of computer games to the Bulger killers, and prattle on about realistic violence.  It was '93 right?  Those kids would probably have been playing something about as realistic as Mortal Kombat.  Actually not even that, Bulger was murdered 7 months before the original MK was even released.  Maybe it was George Foreman's KO Boxing then?  I don't even remember any mention of videogames back then.

Could have been this: http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/jackthenipper.htm

By the way, last I heard there'll be another of these on The Wright Show soon – everyone at Future was told specifically to tell the researchers to get fucked if they ask any of us to take part.

Guy

The main beans in the videogame fartstorm of '93 were Mortal Kombat (digitised sprites and dismemberment) and Night Trap (grainy video and nighties).

chand

Quote from: Guy on March 25, 2010, 01:03:22 PM
The main beans in the videogame fartstorm of '93 were Mortal Kombat (digitised sprites and dismemberment) and Night Trap (grainy video and nighties).

Only about 10 people ever played Night Trap though, it only came out on consoles that completely bombed.

Doom was the other game that got people's knickers in a twist in those days, although that also didn't come out til after the murder.

TotalNightmare

Quote from: Jemble Fred on March 25, 2010, 12:49:55 PM
Could have been this: http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/jackthenipper.htm

By the way, last I heard there'll be another of these on The Wright Show soon – everyone at Future was told specifically to tell the researchers to get fucked if they ask any of us to take part.

I loved that game! I superglued the teeth shut of all my elderly relatives because of that little Nipper!

I aim to write this up for the 1000 greatest video games thread...

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I suppose with the sheer size of the gaming industry, and the huge success of controversial/violent titles, it does have significant leverage, especially now it's all tied up with BBFC certifications. The industry may have really poor representation in traditional media but financially they're close to untouchable.

As current gamers become the next generation of parents, I'm hopeful that the Anne Diamond's, that particular middle England crop of naive busybodies trying to force their prejudices and ignorance down everyone's throats will be marginalised, or even better, die in a fire.

Lee Van Cleef

I think we all have to face up to facts.  We're in the midst of a new wave of child-corrupting entertainment that is going to turn our schools into Columbine death holes and our homes into Menendezian gor(e)al installations.

Guy

Quote from: chand on March 25, 2010, 02:42:09 PM
Only about 10 people ever played Night Trap though, it only came out on consoles that completely bombed.

Night Trap sold well after the pre-Christmas controversy, prior to that it was just another mediocre full motion video title that no-one was really paying much attention to. I've got a copy as it's a museum piece.

The reason it blew up was a fuss about the fact that it contained real filmed images (of women, being abducted in a hammy b-movie fashion if you failed to intervene).

Had precisely fuck-all to do with Bulger of course, I think the complaints originated in the US, but it became part of the UK 'where is our society going wrong?' media aftermath.

Still Not George

Just seen this. Fucking bullshit, end to end. The minute it became obvious none of them had a fucking clue about the rating system, I just wanted to get a giant purple dildo and beat them all to death with it before taking a photo of the corpse.



boki


j_u_d_a_s

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on March 25, 2010, 12:36:36 PM
Some stunning contradictions in the commentary, McKenzie attempts to tie the violence of computer games to the Bulger killers, and prattle on about realistic violence.  It was '93 right?  Those kids would probably have been playing something about as realistic as Mortal Kombat.  Actually not even that, Bulger was murdered 7 months before the original MK was even released.  Maybe it was George Foreman's KO Boxing then?  I don't even remember any mention of videogames back then.

As I remember, the scapegoat of the time was a copy of Child's Play 3 that was found in one of their houses. Because of course, parents would never be so irresponsible as to buy 18 rated films for their own enjoyment.

No this is MacKenzie trying to reinforce in the nations minds the idea that John Venebles is a monster beyond rehabilitation so he can carry on his campaign to get his identity released. The slimy manipulative cunt wants to appear like he's a concerned parent when stirring up hysteria will just benefit his newspaper.

Big Jack McBastard

Aye that's the one it was all Chukie's fault apparently. A doll with the soul of a murderer that came to life and offed people in immensely hammy ways. So unbelievably realistic I nearly shat myself with terror.

Once again though it was the media picking up on that tape simply existing in his house. What about the other kid? Was anything questionable found in his place?

This was/is unworthy of any serious news outlet and is akin to free advertising.

j_u_d_a_s

Again if memory serves me well, there were some similarities. Incredibly superficial ones though and that was enough to stir up the tedious media frenzy.

I remember at the time going to the local video shop to rent something. And as I was there, a woman came in holding a copy of Childs Play 2 saying "don't you think it's a bit insensitive to have a copy of this video out after Jamie Bulger?"

Videogames at the time weren't anywhere near as sophisticated then to get anywhere near as much coverage. Night Trap looks laughable now but when it was released, it got the "BAN THIS FILTH" treatment.

Quote from: j_u_d_a_s on March 25, 2010, 05:41:55 PM
Again if memory serves me well, there were some similarities. Incredibly superficial ones though and that was enough to stir up the tedious media frenzy.

I'm loathe to go looking for info, but I seem to remember something about being spattered with paint.

Glebe

Fuck me, the Titchmarsh audience are like a bunch of bussed-in zombies. They cheer Julia Peasbody for quoting one study, and boo Tim Ingham just for quoting another. And how can Peasbody claim that films don't make violence attractive? Titchmarsh's assertion that ratings deter kids from watching violent films but not violent games is amusingly brainless.

Spiteface

I just watched that thing and was in awe.  I never realised people still had that mentality about games.

As far as I'm concerned, if games are subject to the same BBFC ratings and such then it's not even a discussion that needs to be had.  As a kid I knew friends who were allowed to watch stuff like Child's Play 3 (this would have been before the killing of James Bulger, and said film was scapegoated).  My parents never allowed me to watch stuff like that, and nor did I have any desire to.

When ratings and such started to appear on games a few years later, I just accepted it, and eventually my folks would allow me to play such things and watch certain films once they knew I was old enough to grasp stuff that was going on.   THERE is where the responsibility lies, with parenting.  Even now I see CLUELESS parents buying the likes of GTA IV for their kid, clearly having yet to grasp the fact that over the years, gaming has become less of a kids' pastime, and having a broader appeal than they ever did when I was a kid (and of course ignoring that big red "18" on the box). That has always bugged me.

What offended me the most was seeing them put forward such an outdated perception of the appeal of gaming and the gaming market in 2010.

Braintree

I find this very odd. I had a super cool mum, who take me to Sega Park in Southampton because I liked playing Virtual Fighter. She also bought me Tekken 2. In fact I think she was a bit disgusted when I moved on to games like The Sims.

Most of these games are cartoon violence. I doubt they are influencing street gangs, for example. I think television has more of an impact on someone shooting someone and hoping they will turn out alright again(see various Eastenders shootings)

If your child is the type to turn violent after playing street fighter or GTA then perhaps you need to look at your parenting and what that child has seen at home.