South Africa: World Cup 2010

[Danger Man]

strange side which seems to mimic their national  identity because they've always seemed to have crazy flair and workmanlike technique in midfield but lack any prolific desire to score.

Group effort = good. Individualism = bad.

Which means they pass and pass and pass all day but nobody wants to score.

Having said that, they are beating this useless England lot and it isn't even the full 1st choice team.

[Mr Colossal]

strange side which seems to mimic their national  identity

if you want any more proof theres the kamikaze!

[Lee Van Cleef]

Watching this I am convinced.  England don't have a snowball in hells chance.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

England will do well at the WC. Some players such as Lennon, Walcott, Heskey etc. must not play unless badly needed through injury. In a game like this it's perfectly reasonable for Capello to tinker with the lineup out of curiosity. If I'm right about his preferred starting 11 I think they'll cope fine.

eg:
Joe Cole, Peter Crouch should start.
Johnson, Walcott, Heskey, Lennon and even Defoe are not quite up to the grade.

[Mr Colossal]

'was it the change in formation or the managers team talk that turned the game around?'



erm. the two own goals?

[Vitalstatistix]

'was it the change in formation or the managers team talk that turned the game around?'

erm. the two own goals?

England played much, much better when J Cole came on. Their quicker passing game, to some extent, forced the Japanese mistakes.

Still... pretty shite!

[MALCOLM]

England in "Poor World Cup warm-up" shocker!

[Emma Raducanu]

England in going to do "badly at the world cup" prediction!

[Saucer51]

My father is one of Ladbrokes most faithful customers but he has a superstition about anyone seeing what he is betting on etc.

However last week I noticed he'd left a slip on his study table and saw that he was tinkering with the idea of  "Terry to be sent off" and "France to win". I do wonder what odds are being offered on the former, as England will surely be playing more than one game.  I can't ask him as he will go mad that I even know and his betting superstitions will make him change his intentions.

So as I know bugger all about football, I will take his expert* advice and say France.

[hoverdonkey]

Nah, France are rubbish. Bet on Terry getting sent off though

[Pope]

England will do well at the WC. Some players such as Lennon, Walcott, Heskey etc. must not play unless badly needed through injury. In a game like this it's perfectly reasonable for Capello to tinker with the lineup out of curiosity. If I'm right about his preferred starting 11 I think they'll cope fine.

eg:
Joe Cole, Peter Crouch should start.
Johnson, Walcott, Heskey, Lennon and even Defoe are not quite up to the grade.

Eh? Lennon is one of our best players.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

England will probably do just the same as they always do - Quarter Finals - where they'll meet a better team and lose.

That's what we did last time, and if you look at the 2006 squad (below) - it's barely changed.  Rooney is a much better player than he was then; but no-one else has emerged since 2006 that is a significant improvement on what we had in 2006.

1   GK   Paul Robinson   
2   DF   Gary Neville   
3   DF   Ashley Cole   
4   MF   Steven Gerrard   
5   DF   Rio Ferdinand   
6   DF   John Terry   
7   MF   David Beckham (c)   
8   MF   Frank Lampard   
9   FW   Wayne Rooney   
10   FW   Michael Owen   
11   MF   Joe Cole   
12   DF   Sol Campbell   
13   GK   David James   
14   DF   Wayne Bridge   
15   DF   Jamie Carragher   
16   MF   Owen Hargreaves   
17   MF   Jermaine Jenas   
18   MF   Michael Carrick   
19   MF   Aaron Lennon
20   MF   Stewart Downing   
21   FW   Peter Crouch
22   GK   Scott Carson   
23   FW   Theo Walcott   

[the midnight watch baboon]

Walcott seems bound to go, but Johnson seems the most exciting option to come off the bench. I think Lennon will start the first game.

[JPA]

I thought Wright-Phillips actually did better than Lennon and Walcott when he was on, but I don't think he'll go. I don't think Johnson will go either, although I've seen reports that he's been our most impressive player during training. Maybe too soon for him?

Still got that sneaking suspicion that Heskey might make the cut.

That was atrocious yesterday, the first half in particular, a half in which Rooney contrived to pass to anyone or anything that wasn't an England player.

[hoverdonkey]

Lennon's much better than he was in 2006

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Lennon's not going to be enough of a difference though. 

The one thing that might make a difference is the climate  - it being much cooler, might suit the northern Europeans.

But man-for-man - whatever squad we pick is going to be no better than that 2006 squad, and probably worse.

[weirdbeard]

If Joe Cole doesnt make the squad, I will boycott the entire thing.

Well, I won't, but I'll be bloody ticked off.

The problem with a bumbling hulk like Heskey, is that the kind of chance he spannered yesterday is the one chance we might get in a tightly matched quarter final.  Would you want it to come to him?  The entire argument for his inclusion is "It makes Rooney a better player".  Well if Rooney's so fucking good, like everyone thinks he is, why does he need such a player to benefit?  He doesn't need it for his club, so he certainly shouldn't for his country.  We need to get away from the "lump it up to the big man" option anyway, we've got Crouch if we need that and if he gets injured, then we'll just to have to revert to playing the kind of football the majority of the squad plays every week.  I'd rather have Johnson or Dawson as an extra creative/defensive options and have Walcott as the fourth striker if necessary - he's a far better finisher than winger in any case.

Does anyone know what time the squad is getting announced tomorrow, or is just when Fabio decides? 

[weirdbeard]

Lennon's not going to be enough of a difference though. 

The one thing that might make a difference is the climate  - it being much cooler, might suit the northern Europeans.

But man-for-man - whatever squad we pick is going to be no better than that 2006 squad, and probably worse.

Goalies are probably the same, Robinson, James and Carson are probably level with James, Hart and Green.

The back four were certainly in better shape than they are now, Cole's kept up the same kind of level, but Johnson isn't a better defender than Neville was and Ferdinand and Terry are in worse form.

Midfield - again the same, Gerrard looks shot to bits this season, Lampard is the same as, Beckham/Lennon probably the same in quality, although Beckham scored 1 and made 2 in the 5 games, which is about the minimum expected.

Forwards - Rooney's in better form and at least fit, this time round.  And I've just been reminded how shocking the striking selection was last time - Rooney and Owen, both barely half fit and an untried 17-year-old, along with Crouch.  God, I fucking loathed Sven by then.

[Vitalstatistix]

The 7 to be dropped from the 30 will almost certainly be:

Dawson
Warnock
Parker
Carrick / Huddlestone (not sure out of these two)
SWP
A. Johnson
Bent


I'll eat my hat if J. Cole doesn't go.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

Eh? Lennon is one of our best players.

Not one of the best tho.
He's a bit of a headless chicken who loses the ball too much for this level. Fine for group stages against the might of Algeria and USA but I don't expect him to be "world class" which, at the end of the day, is what this tournament is about.

[rudi]

Not one of the best tho.
He's a bit of a headless chicken who loses the ball too much for this level.

You're thinking of the 2008 model. The ball sticks to him nowadays.

[rjd2]

Ignore..

[JPA]

The 7 to be dropped from the 30 will almost certainly be:

Dawson
Warnock
Parker
Carrick / Huddlestone (not sure out of these two)
SWP
A. Johnson
Bent


I'll eat my hat if J. Cole doesn't go.

I don't think this will be far off. Not sure that Upson will definitely go, though perhaps he will. I too think Joe Cole will go, would be disappointed if he doesn't make the cut.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Lennon hasn't improved enough to turn England into a team that has a better than 40:60 shot against Brazil, Spain, Italy, Argentina (assuming Maradona doesn't cripple them too much),  or 50:50 against Portugal, Netherlands, France and Germany.

Goalkeepers - Hart and Green are a slight upgrade on Robinson and Carson.

Defence - Neville was better than Johnson is now; Ferdinand and Terry are worse than they were.  Ashley Cole about the same.  King is good but knackered; the reserve defenders are all considerable downgrades on 2006.

Midfield - Milner could be as good as Hargreaves was last time, and is a definite improvement on Carrick, Jenas and Downing.  Barry, if fit and form might have proven an adequate replacement for Hargreaves.  Otherwise Gerrard and Joe Cole  are worse than they were, Walcott hasn't improved, and any combination of Huddlestone/Parker/Carrick is pretty uninspiring and not likely to make a difference.

Forwards: Rooney has improved and the only one who has improved enough to possibly make that difference.  Defoe is no Owen, Crouch is about the same, and Heskey is Heskey.  Darren Bent isn't good enough,

Being a Villa fan my bias might be showing, but Agbonlahor would have been my choice ahead of Heskey or Bent.  He has played on his own up front, is strong and most of all fucking quick!

Ashley Young is also at least as good as Lennon, can play left or right wing and doesn't bottle it in front of goal.

[actwithoutwords]

The players may not be much different compared to 2006, but surely this England team is a much better proposition as a whole? There's no way they will be anywhere near as shite this time. Not really good enough to win, but I will be shocked if they don't do very well.

EDIT: replying to Tokyo: of that list, ye definitely would have every chance against Portugal, Italy and (particularly) France, Argentina is imponderable really, and only a lack of mental toughness would hold you back from beating that German team. But that's something that Capello may well have changed. It will be fascinating to see how they cope in a real high pressure game, after something of a cakewalk in the qualifiers.

[confettiinmyhair]

Being a Villa fan my bias might be showing, but Agbonlahor would have been my choice ahead of Heskey or Bent.  He has played on his own up front, is strong and most of all fucking quick!

I think you're right. Agbonlahor also outscored both Crouch and Heskey. His time will come during the Euro 2012 campaign.

[Mr Colossal]

Being a Villa fan my bias might be showing, but Agbonlahor would have been my choice ahead of Heskey or Bent.  He has played on his own up front, is strong and most of all fucking quick!

The first few months of the season I would have been agreeing with you because he looked shit hot but then seemed pretty much non-existant towards the second half when Carew was scoring all the goals, and I suppose they can bring walcott off the wing for raw pace...  I would like to see them play with Young and Johnson.  I just think they've already fucked it by not settling down on any balanced system, which will probably see them through qualifying on ability alone but the lack of organisation will be their undoing against any half decent sides...

[phes]

If Joe Cole doesnt make the squad, I will boycott the entire thing.
Well, I won't, but I'll be bloody ticked off.

Agreed - he's the most important player in the squad for me and Capello would have to be INSANE in the brain to leave him behind.

[Depressed Beyond Tables]

It's kind of a shame Joe Cole stayed at Chelsea for so long when plenty of other top teams could have done with him. I don't agree that he hasn't improved. IMO he's a bit more sensible nowadays when he does get a game. He's confident too which you need. You can't have players hiding on the pitch, something which I think at times the likes of Agbonlahor has been guilty of. Although on his day the goals speak for themselves.

Capello obviously wants a solid midfield with at least one decent tackler who can clean up when the wingers or Lampard/Gerrard lose it in the final third. I have a feeling he'll go with Carrick for his "experience" if Barry is not fit. It's not ideal at all but leave him round the halfway line with strick orders not to stray too far forward and possibly he could combine with the centre halves adequately while hitting the very odd peach ball up field. God knows his tackling is not top drawer. Game plan will likely become far more conservative in the knock out stages (post group honeymoon) but when you're being paid to win the thing you'll do what it takes. At this stage he might even opt for the 4-5-1 with Rooney as the lone striker giving more options in midfield. The Makélelé role is the big conundrum for Capello.

But who knows...

[El Unicornio, mang]

I'm really looking forward to watching the England game against USA in an American pub on a Saturday afternoon. Going by past experience it will be about 100 England supporters to 1 USA supporter.