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Blu-ray Releases

Started by Artemis, June 07, 2010, 03:21:23 PM

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Neil

I got a blu-ray player for me birthday!  Well chuffed.  I watched Up on one, via a 42-inch flat-screen, and was very, very impressed by the picture quality.  As for the story...wow.

The load times were a bit jarring, though.

biggytitbo

Quote from: papalaz4444244 on July 10, 2010, 08:14:17 PM
This is precisely what is still keeping me from making the BD leap. I suspect Doctor Who Series 5 Blu-Ray might be my cue to go down this route. Although I still don't know if these episodes were FILMED in 1080p resolution or will we just get a 720p image upscaled to 1080p? (i.e. NOT really 1080p)
The blu rays are in 1080i apparently, as broadcast. What that precisely means in terms of your viewing pleasure I have no idea. Doctor Who on the BBC HD channel looks bloody excellent to my eyes though.

El Unicornio, mang

1080p is better, but only if you get right up close, and the difference is negligible. I'm happy with 720p, honestly, it still looks amazing.

papalaz4444244

The whole thing is a mine field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_HD

QuoteThe UK broadcasts are typically at a resolution of 1440x1080i and encoded in MPEG-4 H.264/AVC on satellite and terrestrial television and in MPEG-2 on cable. Although it is not 1920x1080, the resolution is within European Broadcasting Union specifications for HD.

If the blu-rays aren't full HD progressive scan at the highest bitrate available, much better than the relatively poor bitrate used for transmission, then I can't the point of spending the money on them.

Maybe it's just me.

Lee Van Cleef

Am I just being really simple in thinking that if it looks great, I don't care what p or i it is?

papalaz4444244

Quote from: Lee Van Cleef on July 10, 2010, 09:31:45 PM
Am I just being really simple in thinking that if it looks great, I don't care what p or i it is?
Not at all. I think upscaled DVDs look great. I just want to see much better information available on the different media and transmission formats as the whole industry seems chaotic. A cynic might suggest deliberately confusing.

It's like "HD" downloads that contain 10 times less data than the blu-ray equivalent.

What data is missing and what impact does that have on picture and sound quality?

etc

biggytitbo

It says on that article that whilst in the UK the BBC broadcast hd at 1440x1080 and under 10Mbps yet the BBC broadcast the same channels in Europe at full 1920x1080 at 16Mbps. Why would they do that?

Although I have noticed that during the world cup, the matches on BBC HD look noticeably better than the ones on ITV HD.

Zetetic

Quote from: papalaz4444244 on July 10, 2010, 10:18:07 PM
It's like "HD" downloads that contain 10 times less data than the blu-ray equivalent.

What data is missing and what impact does that have on picture and sound quality?
Well, data judged by the encoding software to be the least perceptually relevant. What impact does it have? Well, there are defined measures (SSIM, PSNR), but really you'd have to perform a significant survey of course (although the measures can be reasonable predictors).

Furthermore, given the limitations of Bluray, there's no reason why a more competent encoding of a source video might not be perceptually equivalent to a Blu-ray encoding but yet far smaller. Particularly since a movie studio might well use MPEG2 on the Blu-ray disc (although this practice has largely been abandoned by now, I think or at least hope), whilst the download is liable to use a more modern, but more difficult (that is, requiring more processing power) to decode codec.

Zetetic

Quote from: biggytitbo on July 11, 2010, 10:53:23 AM
It says on that article that whilst in the UK the BBC broadcast hd at 1440x1080 and under 10Mbps yet the BBC broadcast the same channels in Europe at full 1920x1080 at 16Mbps. Why would they do that?
I think that's actually a reference to the stream that (Virgin?) cable operators provide from the video supplied to them by the BBC.

Artemis

I'm not at all convinced enough about Satellite/Freeview HD to invest in it. From what I've read, only a few programmes on each of the HD channels are actually HD, and even then it's some way less than the 1080p you would get on a blu-ray release.

Blu-ray, however, is fucking awesome. I'm totally getting into it at the moment, and slowly updating the DVDs I have that I could get in blu-ray. I use HDdb and this PQ Tier thread to inform my purchases, so some releases, like King Kong and Avatar, for example, I won't even bother getting now, in the hope that a more definitive release comes out in due course. Other movies like Reservoir Dogs, are excellent despite their sily rating on the PQ Tier forum, so you have to do your research and take your chances. That said, apart from a lot of comedy stuff which I don't think will ever get an HD release due to the source material (e.g. Curb Your Enthusiasm was shot in entirely SD up until Season 7), I won't buy another feature film on DVD. Blu-ray is the future, and it's just a matter of time before it makes even more serious in-roads than it already has. The problem is that too many people are satisfied with SD, but there's such a difference, it's just a matter of demonstrating it.

papalaz4444244

Quote from: biggytitbo on July 11, 2010, 10:53:23 AM
It says on that article that whilst in the UK the BBC broadcast hd at 1440x1080 and under 10Mbps yet the BBC broadcast the same channels in Europe at full 1920x1080 at 16Mbps. Why would they do that?

Although I have noticed that during the world cup, the matches on BBC HD look noticeably better than the ones on ITV HD.
Hmmmm.... here's some more info I found,.....

http://informitv.com/news/2009/12/11/bbchdquality/

http://wapedia.mobi/en/BBC_HD

falafel

Quote from: Artemis on July 12, 2010, 12:23:33 AM
I'm not at all convinced enough about Satellite/Freeview HD to invest in it. From what I've read, only a few programmes on each of the HD channels are actually HD, and even then it's some way less than the 1080p you would get on a blu-ray release.

Blu-ray, however, is fucking awesome. I'm totally getting into it at the moment, and slowly updating the DVDs I have that I could get in blu-ray. I use HDdb and this PQ Tier thread to inform my purchases, so some releases, like King Kong and Avatar, for example, I won't even bother getting now, in the hope that a more definitive release comes out in due course. Other movies like Reservoir Dogs, are excellent despite their sily rating on the PQ Tier forum, so you have to do your research and take your chances. That said, apart from a lot of comedy stuff which I don't think will ever get an HD release due to the source material (e.g. Curb Your Enthusiasm was shot in entirely SD up until Season 7), I won't buy another feature film on DVD. Blu-ray is the future, and it's just a matter of time before it makes even more serious in-roads than it already has. The problem is that too many people are satisfied with SD, but there's such a difference, it's just a matter of demonstrating it.

Just to balance out this equation I only buy a blu-ray if it is within £2-3 or so of the DVD price. Otherwise it just isn't worth the relatively minor difference. The only exceptions for me are animations and action films, which take up no more than 10% of my collection. Certainly wouldn't ever bother replacing any of my DVDs with blu rays, that just seems mental unless you've got money to burn, it's nothing like going from VHS to DVD.

Artemis

I don't buy releases on either format unless I really want them, and if I want them enough to get them on DVD, then I'll certainly want to watch them in the best way they can be reviewed, which is on bluray. That said, my own rule is that I won't spend more than a tenner on each item, unless in exceptional circumstances (e.g. the BTTF trilogy).

Does anyone else have issues with some BDs not returning to the disc menu properly? I bough Terminator 2, which has BD Live facilities on it (I'm not sure if that could be effecting it) and if I want to return to the menu having accessed anything on the disc, I can't. I have to stop the whole thing and load the whole bloody disc up again. Is this a common issue, or am I a dunce? Or both, as will probably be the case?

buntyman

I had a strange issue when trying to play Crank 2, the whole screen was black apart from a small window showing only a small portion of the picture. It turned after some internet searching that it was a common problem and to resolve it, I had to connect an ethernet cable and a USB flash drive to the back and download some update to my player. I hope that never happens again and I would imagine that sort of unnecessary faffing about would put a lot of people off Blu Ray.
I haven't bought many Blu Rays since owning the player, just a few Disney ones that were a good bargain. I pay £7 a month for the Tesco DVD rental service and get 4 Blu Rays a month which is enough for me.

thepuffpastryhangman

The missus joined Love Film and for reasons unknown wanted to watch the Bourne trilogy. We've had two of them so far. Difficult to tell if they look better than good DVDs.

That's my entire experience. Oh, her brother, ages ago, brought round his new Vaio keen to show off its BD capability. Coz of the kids present he brought District 9, he seemed to think it looked awesome but again I didn't think it was much better than a DVD, maybe some bits, hard to tell.
I am using a Pioneer 320 (bloody hell it's dropped price, still, knew it would) which I chose especially for it's DVD upscaling. I wasn't really bothered about BD and nearly bought an older Arcam DVD player, having a credit note from a return to Richer Sounds swung it.

Oh yeah, my point, what BD will blow my socks off quality wise?

Glebe

Nabbed a few bargains yesterday: pre-owned buy-two-get-third-free deal of Wong kar wai's Ashes Of Time (Redux), Tekkonkinkreet and Silent Hill. Of those I've only seen Tekkonkinkreet, which is a terrific piece of animation, kinda not expecting too much of Silent Hill, picture quality-wise it's a mixed bag, apparently.

Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 15, 2010, 08:01:20 PM
The missus joined Love Film and for reasons unknown wanted to watch the Bourne trilogy. We've had two of them so far. Difficult to tell if they look better than good DVDs.

How big is your TV?  If it's not that big you may not notice the difference, but all three movies have good transfers, far better than what DVD can achieve.  The second and third movie don't show off as well as the first movie, but that's more to do with filming and editing styles than anything else.  The aerial shots of cities look particularly nice in HD.

thepuffpastryhangman

46" Panasonic, I'd have gone bigger, but the missus...You know, they look massive in the shop, especially coming from a 22" set, but after a month on the wall it's 'we coulda gone 50" no problem'.

I wasn't comparing Bourne BD to Bourne DVD (I've not seen them) just to good DVDs in general.

I find sound makes the most difference really, which might sound daft. Ok, not the most difference, but moreso (using the HiFi) than the change from DVD to BD.

That said it's all a world away from my previous viewing experience so maybe some of BD subtleties are lost on me.

biggytitbo

Some BDs look only slightly better than DVDs, but thats mainly due to the poor quality or softness of the print they're using. Goodfellas on DVD is so soft and fuzzy its only marginally better than the DVD. But a proper Blu Ray of a recent film or a well preserved old film can look absolutely stunning. I've got the DVD and BD of Casino Royale and the different is night and day, as big as the step up from VHS to DVD I'd say.

El Unicornio, mang

This site http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168342 which Artemis posted earlier has all the blu-ray discs sorted by quality. And http://www.blubeaver.ca/ is unbeatable for picture/audio quality reviews and detailed comparisons between different formats.

chocky909

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 15, 2010, 08:01:20 PM
The missus joined Love Film and for reasons unknown wanted to watch the Bourne trilogy. We've had two of them so far. Difficult to tell if they look better than good DVDs.

Is it possible your eyesight is going? I've heard a few stories about people failing to get excited about HD until they realised that their blurry vision was making everything look SD anyway.

Glebe

Quote from: biggytitbo on July 15, 2010, 10:06:51 PMGoodfellas on DVD is so soft and fuzzy its only marginally better than the DVD.

Casino would look great, if it wasn't for the fact that the print needs serious restoration work. Normally I prefer a bit of print damage to excessive DNR, but there are a ridiculous amount of scratches and white flecks visible in the current transfer. And I mean I'm watching on a 32", not one of those mega-size screen that a lot of HD buffs susbscribe to.

Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 15, 2010, 09:14:55 PM
46" Panasonic, I'd have gone bigger, but the missus...You know, they look massive in the shop, especially coming from a 22" set, but after a month on the wall it's 'we coulda gone 50" no problem'.

I wasn't comparing Bourne BD to Bourne DVD (I've not seen them) just to good DVDs in general.

I'm shocked!  If it's full 1080p then you really should notice a significant difference in the physical detail, depth and colour of the picture.  I'm not comparing the DVD of Bourne either because I don't have it, but it was clear to me that several shots in the movie really stood out in HD.  It's much less noticeable on mid-shots, but on wide shots and extreme closeups it really stands out to me.  Or it could be that you've simply got used to it now and simply don't notice!

biggytitbo

QuoteI'm shocked!  If it's full 1080p then you really should notice a significant difference in the physical detail, depth and colour of the picture
That's the best difference with HD, the colour. SD stuff looks incredibly muddy in comparison, even if you're too far away to see the added detail.

papalaz4444244

Is there a noticeable difference between HD TV shows at 50 or 60 Hz and Bluray film transfers at their original 24fps?

Do they look more.. er... filmy?

biggytitbo

I don't know but my new telly has a very peculiar frame interpolation feature that makes films and 'filmic' stuff like Doctor Who look like video. Which makes the Dark Knight look like the one show, its really incredibly odd. As for 24fps, it can do that, but I honestly couldnt tell the difference between the blu ray of the Dark Knight at 24fps 1080p and the same film on sky at 1080i 60 or whatever it is.

Artemis

Quote from: thepuffpastryhangman on July 15, 2010, 08:01:20 PM
Oh yeah, my point, what BD will blow my socks off quality wise?

So far I've yet to buy a single BD where the difference in quality isn't obvious. The notion that DVDs are probably not that much worse than BD is easily decimated by anybody with a pair of eyes. Get a full HD screen 40 inches or more and I'd struggle to understand how you might not be able to tell the difference in quality, unless you're just not very good at spotting these things - that's not meant to be an insult, some people just don't care, but then they're not entitled to their opinion on BD's in that case either.

The best BD's I've seen are Baraka, Up, and Transformers. Avatar is supposed to be great, but I'm holding off on getting it until the proper BD release arrives in November.

thepuffpastryhangman

With respect, have you ever seen a really good DVD player in action, like a top Arcam? There is a reason people paid £2000 for one instead of £9.99 for something that does the 'same' job. Obviously my 320 is far from great, but it upscales pretty well, which is why I bought it.

I'll double blind my XLR balanced input against straight phono for sound, course I notice stuff.

I probably just haven't watched enough BDs yet (less than 5) so thanks for the recommendations of looking good ones.

biggytitbo

It doesn't matter how well a DVD player upscales something, it's never going to have the same resolution as a Blu Ray. If you're sat a long way from the TV screen then it is fine, but otherwise its nowhere near as good as a good quality BD.

Santa's Boyfriend

Quote from: Artemis on July 16, 2010, 08:38:54 PM
unless you're just not very good at spotting these things - that's not meant to be an insult, some people just don't care,

It's funny but I've met so many people who had a 16x9 tv and were running a 4x3 signal through it without realising - meaning everything was stretched and they had black bars on the top and bottom of the screen.  To me it's insane that people can't see it or don't notice it.  If the tv is doing that thing where it compresses the image to the right width in the middle and then stretches it at the borders, then I guess it's more understandable for about 5 minutes, until the camera does a tracking shot or a car drives through the shot, then it stands out like a sore thumb  Yet even when that happens they don't notice it.  I guess at the end of the day those people really aren't going to notice any difference between SD and HD.