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April 23, 2024, 04:42:35 PM

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So, Doctor Who.

Started by Fry, June 13, 2010, 12:56:15 AM

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Fry

Well, exactly how many powers do the Timelords have? I always assumed the Doctor was just a basic dude of no offence to anyone, except being really smart and resourceful. But there always seems to be new special powers, have these been covered before or are they made up on the fly. (Also, I vaguely remember seeing The Doctor's nemesis (The Master?) firing electricity, can't remember where though.)

Are the timelords gifted with any special time related powers from birth, or is it just a title bestowed on people from the homeworld, like Monk or Knight?

Can the Doctor regenerate no matter what happens, or is it like a quite delicate process?

If this is the 11th Doctor, and he is 900 years old, why has his life suddenly got so much more dangerous comparatively recently? Has he only got the tardis recently? Was he just an accountant or a stenographer or something before becoming the Doctor?

purlieu

Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 12:19:30 PM
Well, exactly how many powers do the Timelords have? I always assumed the Doctor was just a basic dude of no offence to anyone, except being really smart and resourceful. But there always seems to be new special powers, have these been covered before or are they made up on the fly. (Also, I vaguely remember seeing The Doctor's nemesis (The Master?) firing electricity, can't remember where though.)
Certain telepathic and hypnotic powers seem to appear when necessary.  The Master's electricity in The End Of Time is something to do with him being unstable from his resurrection or some bollocks, but it was never properly explained and typical RTD crap I think.
QuoteAre the timelords gifted with any special time related powers from birth, or is it just a title bestowed on people from the homeworld, like Monk or Knight?
I've never been 100% sure of the difference between a Galiffreyean and a Time Lord.  Somebody else might be able to help better here.
QuoteCan the Doctor regenerate no matter what happens, or is it like a quite delicate process?
As long as the regeneration is given chance to happen it's fine, but sometimes if the Doctor dies in a particularly bad way the process can be difficult, and if he drowns, for example, he can't regenerate as the body is still in its dying state (perhaps he'll regenerate and just drown again).  See also: getting blown up &c.  Regeneration is sort of like the body reparing itself on every level.
QuoteIf this is the 11th Doctor, and he is 900 years old, why has his life suddenly got so much more dangerous comparatively recently? Has he only got the tardis recently? Was he just an accountant or a stenographer or something before becoming the Doctor?
He ran away from a boring life when he was much younger... I think around 300 or something?  His age is first stated in a Second Doctor story.  It is suggested that we meet him reasonably early on in his travels when his first incarnation is quite old.

Fawwaz

Here's one that's always bugged me -- is Davros the same race as the Daleks? Wikipedia says both he and the Daleks are 'Kaleds'. In that case, how come he's a humanoid, but they're not ?

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

Quote from: Fawwaz on July 02, 2010, 12:33:58 PM
Here's one that's always bugged me -- is Davros the same race as the Daleks? Wikipedia says both he and the Daleks are 'Kaleds'. In that case, how come he's a humanoid, but they're not ?

Yes, Davros and the mutants inside the Daleks are both from the Kaled race. Kaleds were originally humanoid, but the globular squids inside the Dalek casing are mutated versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Daleks

Quote from: Fawwaz on July 02, 2010, 12:33:58 PM
Here's one that's always bugged me -- is Davros the same race as the Daleks? Wikipedia says both he and the Daleks are 'Kaleds'. In that case, how come he's a humanoid, but they're not ?

The Kaleds were originally humanoid, but mutated owing to the radiation of a long war they fought with the Thals, and also Davros's own genetic experiments.  The Daleks were basically a protective casing for the mutated Kaleds to travel in.  It's all detailed in Genesis of the Daleks, a 70s Tom Baker story, where several humanoid Kaleds appear.

Fawwaz

Ah that clears it all up. Cheers.

Still Not George

Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 12:19:30 PM
Well, exactly how many powers do the Timelords have? I always assumed the Doctor was just a basic dude of no offence to anyone, except being really smart and resourceful. But there always seems to be new special powers, have these been covered before or are they made up on the fly.
Essentially they're made up on the fly,  but there's been a giant slew of them recently. Traditionally, Timelords have certain mental powers which can manifest from limited telepathy all the way through to hypnotic mind control. That in particular is considered important, as a Timelord's connection to his TARDIS is telepathic in nature.

As for other "powers", about the only one I think they're supposed to have is an innate instinct for time - allowing them to gauge "fixed points in time", avoid potential paradoxes, step through giant fans at *exactly* the right moment, and so on. It's difficult to tell how much of that is being a Timelord and how much of that is being an experienced time traveller bonded psychicallyt to a time machine, however.

Quote(Also, I vaguely remember seeing The Doctor's nemesis (The Master?) firing electricity, can't remember where though.)
That was all to do with a botched resurrection turning him into some kind of weird biokinetic monster. It's not a standard Timelord thing.

QuoteAre the timelords gifted with any special time related powers from birth, or is it just a title bestowed on people from the homeworld, like Monk or Knight?

"Time Lord" is a title given to those Gallifreyans permitted to bond with a TARDIS, basically. There's a suggestion in some of the old stories that it involves certain examinations.

QuoteCan the Doctor regenerate no matter what happens, or is it like a quite delicate process?
If his body is essentially complete, then his tissues can regenerate. So long falls, Dalek exterminatior rays, gunshot wounds etc could all be regenerated from. Really severe wounds cause difficulties with the process and can leave the Doctor unstable, and if a Timelord's body is completely destroyed (blown to bits, disintegrated, dropped into a star) then there's no coming back unless they've pulled some Timelord trick or other (like storing their DNA and mind inside a computer, etc).

Fry

Oh fantastic! You're all being great! Thanks a lot. One last question.

Before the big ol' war, how many TARDISes were there knocking about? Does the Master have one?

Still Not George

Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 04:26:30 PMBefore the big ol' war, how many TARDISes were there knocking about?

Never specified, but there were quite a few. There's references to War TARDISes at some point - actual warships with TARDIS space/time drives in them.

QuoteDoes the Master have one?
He did, and his had a working chameleon circuit too. It appears to have been either destroyed or taken from him during the Time War, most likely by the Time Lords when they stranded him at the End of the Universe.

An tSaoi

If you cut The Doctor's arm or leg off, but it wasn't fatal, would it grow back, or would that count as a full regeneration and therefore one less life left?

And if you cut him in half, would he regenerate into two doctors like a worm?

Ginyard

Let's find out by sawing Colin Baker in two.

mycroft

QuoteBefore the big ol' war, how many TARDISes were there knocking about? Does the Master have one?

I'll take this 'un.

No specific number of TARDISes has ever been given, but pretty much every (renegade) Time Lord who's turned up in the series has had one of his/her own. The Master, for some reason, acquires a second one later one, although I'm not quite sure what happened to the first. Its whereabouts, after his misadventures on the planet of the Cheetah People, Skaro and at the end of the universe, is unknown. The Doctor's TARDIS is a Type-40, an old model of which every other specimen was decommissioned. The Doctor, however, removed the records of his from the database on Gallifrey before taking off in it.

All other TARDISes that have appeared have always been more advanced models, leading very often to the Doctor being scoffed at by his peers. There are also mention in various sources and legends of battle-TARDISes and suchlike being used in various Time Lord wars, but the Doctor's appears to have been stripped of any of its offensive capabilities, although it still has defence mechanisms like a forcefield or the ability to dematerialise itself should it come under attack.

Ambient Sheep

#72
Quote from: Artemis in the tagshttp://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23387.0.html

Yes, we know, thanks.

This thread isn't about Series 5, in the main.  Perhaps it should be called "Old New Doctor Who"... ;-p

eluc55

Quote from: Still Not George on July 02, 2010, 04:43:09 PM
He did, and his had a working chameleon circuit too. It appears to have been either destroyed or taken from him during the Time War, most likely by the Time Lords when they stranded him at the End of the Universe.

He wasn't stranded, though, was he? He was brought back to fight in the war, then ran away and hid of his own accord. So he must have had his TARDIS at that point. Its actually stated that "Even the Timelords didn't come this far" or summat. His TARDIS is presumably still at the end of the universe, unless he came back and collected it when he stole The Doctor's. 

Phil_A

I *think* that Time Lord status is not something automatically conferred on all Gallifreyans, but something only the "privileged" are entitled to. In "The Five Doctors", the High Council try to bargain with the Master by offering to renew his renegerations, implying it's not a natural organic process but something that's been engineered. There was some attempt to fill in the whole backstory of the Time Lords in the old 90's spin-off novels, but apparently no-one liked that version of events so it's been basically ignored ever since.

I thought it was quite good, though.


Fry

I am really enjoying watching these through (and these replies too, very helpful, thank you!), but I wish Rose stopped going on about how shit all of our lives are compared to hers. I want to travel time too, I just can't! It actually gets me a little.

In "The Christmas Invasion", we saw the doctor going just all sorts of nuts with a sword. It got me thinking, is he a proficient fighter? I imagine in 900-odd years he must have picked up a thing or two. I like to imagine him spending 50 years on top of a mountain just training up, like batman. Are there any other instances of him fighting?

(I am starting to feel a bit bad for hassling you all like this, but It's very interesting. I am beginning to like this show a bit much.)

biggytitbo

He's sword fighted a few times before Pertwee in the Sea Devils has a sword fight with the Master and I think Tom sword fights in the Androids of tara. Ohh yeah, Davison has a sword fight with the master in The Kings Deamons too. In short, the Doctor is pretty tasty with a sword.

More sword fighting please.

mycroft

The Doctor tends to be a bit tasty in general, but he chooses not to do it. Didn't Hartnell say he was trained in wrestling by "the Mountain Mauler of Montana" or something? And I'm sure he mentions a famous boxer at one point, too. Davison also warned someone about his marksmanship once as well, "I never miss".

In fact, of all the Doctors, I think only Troughton, McCoy and Tennant managed to completely avoid violence during their times.

biggytitbo

Quote from: mycroft on July 02, 2010, 05:07:03 PM
The Doctor tends to be a bit tasty in general, but he chooses not to do it. Didn't Hartnell say he was trained in wrestling by "the Mountain Mauler of Montana" or something? And I'm sure he mentions a famous boxer at one point, too. Davison also warned someone about his marksmanship once as well, "I never miss".

In fact, of all the Doctors, I think only Troughton, McCoy and Tennant managed to completely avoid violence during their times.
Apart from his sword fight in the christmas invasion!

Ambient Sheep

Pertwee Doc was also an expert in Venusian Aikido apparently, and demonstrated this in at least one serial, I forget which.  According to one of my early 70s Doctor Who Annuals, he's "one of the few two-armed beings to have mastered this ancient martial art" (quote approximate from memory).

EDIT: Googling it gives numerous details & examples.


Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 04:58:35 PM(I am starting to feel a bit bad for hassling you all like this, but It's very interesting. I am beginning to like this show a bit much.)

We're enjoying the fuck out of it, can't you tell?  :-)

Serge

Quote from: eluc55 on July 02, 2010, 04:52:08 PM
He wasn't stranded, though, was he? He was brought back to fight in the war, then ran away and hid of his own accord. So he must have had his TARDIS at that point. Its actually stated that "Even the Timelords didn't come this far" or summat. His TARDIS is presumably still at the end of the universe, unless he came back and collected it when he stole The Doctor's.

This is, as I've said before, one of Rusty's biggest plot holes. The Doctor manages to do something to his TARDIS that means it can only go between the last two points in time and space that it visited, but all the Master has to do is return to the End Of The Universe and find his own TARDIS (presumably he'd remember where he left it) and could then bugger off and go anywhere in the universe he likes.

Although I love John Simm's Master, I think the Jacobi scenes at the end of 'Utopia' are the high point of Rusty's era.


mycroft

Quote from: biggytitbo on July 02, 2010, 05:08:59 PM
Apart from his sword fight in the christmas invasion!

Gaah, knew I'd forgotten something! Just Troughton and McCoy, then. Not very pacifistic, is it? (I include Eccleston for ramming that guard's head into a wall in Bad Wolf, his only screened violent act)

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on July 02, 2010, 05:09:34 PM
Pertwee Doc was also an expert in Venusian Aikido apparently, and demonstrated this in at least one serial, I forget which.

Pretty much all of them. Kee-HAAAAII!!

Ambient Sheep

Without wishing to sound like River Bloody Song, for Fry's sake, may I just say...

Spoilers!!!

;-)

Fry

I've noticed the Doctor changes personality which each of his regenerations. Which is the most evil, or at least morally ambiguous, of his incarnations? What did he do?

biggytitbo

Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 05:18:34 PM
I've noticed the Doctor changes personality which each of his regenerations. Which is the most evil, or at least morally ambiguous, of his incarnations? What did he do?
McCoy's doctor is generally regarded as the most Machiavellian and scheming of Doctors, whilst not necessarily dark or evil, he did becaome a bit more complex towards the end of his run.

papalaz4444244

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on July 02, 2010, 05:09:34 PM
Pertwee Doc was also an expert in Venusian Aikido apparently, and demonstrated this in at least one serial, I forget which.  According to one of my early 70s Doctor Who Annuals, he's "one of the few two-armed beings to have mastered this ancient martial art" (quote approximate from memory).

That sounds like pure Terrance Dicks. I'm sure it's stated more than once in some TARGET novelisations, too. :)

mycroft

Quote from: Fry on July 02, 2010, 05:18:34 PM
I've noticed the Doctor changes personality which each of his regenerations. Which is the most evil, or at least morally ambiguous, of his incarnations? What did he do?

People tend to say Colin, because he was the most unpredictable, but I'd go for the first Doctor - there's centuries of stuff he's been up to before we caught up with him in that junkyard, with possible involvement with the Time Lords' covert interfering arm, the CIA (Celestial Intervention Agency). Also, why are all the other Doctors deferential to him, when he's the youngest and most inexperienced of the lot? Methinks he did some really nasty stuff before doing his runner from Gallifrey, the sort of thing that could bother the consciences of his other selves. That's my theory, anyway. Also, given that we've never had any sort of information on what caused him to do a runner (or be thrown out) other than there was some sort of scandal, there could have been some serious trouble there as well.

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: papalaz4444244 on July 02, 2010, 05:24:00 PMThat sounds like pure Terrance Dicks.

It does, doesn't it? :-)  I thought the same thing as I was typing it just now.


Quote from: papalaz4444244 on July 02, 2010, 05:24:00 PMI'm sure it's stated more than once in some TARGET novelisations, too. :)

It probably is -- I might well have read it in those and/or The Making Of Doctor Who as well.  I seem to remember reading it more than once, so it wouldn't surprise me!

weekender

This thread is fucking awesome.  It's amazing to see someone approach Doctor Who without any real knowledge of the Who history (Who-istery?  No, that doesn't work, forget it) and ask what are perfectly sensible questions, and be given sensible answers that are both based on fictional facts in the Whoniverse (someone else coined that before me) and actual fact in reality.

As Sheepy says, everyone who's posting is enjoying the fuck out of this thread, and I am too.

Here are my questions, sorry if they're a bit too geeky.

1.  I have it in my head that the Doctor's name written down was a 6 character name, one of the characters was the letter 'W' rotated anti-clockwise by 45 degrees.  Where have I got this bit of information from?  I have a feeling that it might have been from a fanzine, or a book that wasn't a Target novelisation.

2. Speaking of fanzines, does anyone remember a fanzine (possibly the same one) where they had what was essentially Rupert the Bear as the Doctor, with Rupert's mates as the Doctor's companions?  Sheepy, you *might*, somewhere, still have my copies of a couple of issues, if you have is there any chance you can scan them in? Younger me thought it was great, it was a cartoon strip done in the style of Rupert the Bear with things like:

Rupert wanders through time and space.
The Daleks attack and then give chase!"


I would dearly love to see the whole thing again.

biggytitbo

Slight aside, here's Doctor Who with the new Spiderman:

A second Doctor Who guest star to go on to become big in Hollywood then!