This Is England '86 [merged]

[Icehaven]

Re; anachronisms, was the expression ''well fit'' meaning good looking is use in 1986? Because it's graffitied on the wall behind Milky's head when he's talking to Lol in the pub toilets near the end. I was hoping it'd be better with SM directing it too, but it wasn't really, and what the hell were Sean and Smell actually doing? It looked like she was giving him the Heimlich manouevre at one point. I'll watch the last ep if only to see if/how they actually use This Is England.

Also when Sean and Smell are talking on the couch, he mentions that he moved house a few months before, so Combo arriving like that either means he actually has got the wrong house and it's a massive coincidence, he's psychic, or he's shagging Sean's mum too. I'm already confused about their house as the door his Mum opened to take the flowers from the soldiers is completely different to the one Sean and Smell go through later on. It actually looks like a completely different house.

[Custard]

I wondered that about Combo knowing where Shaun lives, but I reckon it'll turn out that he asked someone locally. Looks like a pretty small community, so i doubt it'd be too hard to find him.

[jfjnpxmy]

Watching this in HD turns Vicky McClure's moustache into the most hypnotic thing I have ever seen.

[Subtle Mocking]

Having your cake and raping it, good one Shane.

[Tokyo Sexwhale]

Well this makes last week's look like a tame, family romp.

[imitationleather]

My dad will be ringing that information helpline - he was gutted about England losing to Argentina in the World Cup that year as well.

[thugler]

Truly a weird episode at times. The jolly stuff with all the mates intercut with brutal violence is bizarre.

Bit too much slo-mo montage this week.

[actwithoutwords]

The jolly stuff with all the mates intercut with brutal violence is bizarre.

Whatever point it's trying to make, it's not doing so effectively. All the montages of events of contrasting tone just haven't worked. No impact.
This was again fucking horrible. Maybe less gratuitously so than last week, but with added brutal murder. Hands up who didn't think he was getting his head stoved in at some point?
Combo's redemption seemed spectacularly pointless as well. Last time we saw him he was a vicious racist thug. Suddenly he's taking a manslaughter hit for a girl he used to fancy who from what I can remember hated him? What happened in between? Why? Why would I give a fuck? Lol was so sour, selfish and charmless from the start of the first episode I barely cared about her either. If this series was her story, which Meadows said it was, her character was not remotely well drawn enough to sustain it.
The end was just messy as well.[nb]And I don't mean Shaun and Smell[/nb]

Unpleasant and very disappointing overall. I read the other day that the other writer Jack Thorne was a writer on Skins. That explains an awful lot. Not that I was around at the time, but the film seemed to capture youth subcultures in a very authentic way, this however comes across as shallow and artificial, an I Love the 80's version of This is England. Alan Partridge leading around a band of lads in matching tracksuits on motorbikes etc.

[Vitalstatistix]

Was that really the last episode? Lots of story strands were barely referred to, let alone resolved. Strange stuff.

After 4 hours I don't feel like I know any of these characters better. Those fucking piano montages really starting getting on my tits as well.

[thugler]

Which story strands were you referring to? I think they decided to end the affair between milky and lol, and them decide to not tell the other bloke. I did think the ending was messy but couldn't quite think why that was. Smell and Shaun are just back together, that seems to be all there was to that story.

[Vitalstatistix]

It just felt very half-hearted. I was expecting some more of the milky lol woody triangle, mainly. I felt unsure as to how it ended with them.

Also, shaun's mum and the Indian guy, Meggy and his son, fat guy and crazy lady, Harvey and his abusive dad etc. I don't need happy resolutions, I just found the plotting strange. Meadows set a few things up and then ignored them.

[boxofslice]

Having sat through all four episodes now, it all added up to very little - pointless in fact. 
Combo arriving back on the scene added nothing to the overall drama, we didn't learn anything about him and felt tagged on just so Lol didn't have to go to prison for killing rapey dad.  The whole thing felt underwritten and not properly thought through.

[Borboski]

In the ad break before the final part, me to mrs b:

"oh for fucks sake not MORE sexual violence?  I've already seen one rape this week!"

The combo thing was puzzling - and if you hadn't watched the film then it would be even more so.  Especially the pacing of him turning up right at the end of part 3.  Just an obvious plot device with a quick segment at is dead mum's to try and make you feel some sympathy.   

Spoiler alert

SPOILER I do like that actor though - and the part when he arrives an immediately knows what to do with the boy was very well done, was glued to my seat for that bit.

[close]

That guy just be raping everyone, wasn't he, he starting humming to myself the autotuned antoine dobson song...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEvNS5TzvwM

[Custard]

Ah, but it's most likely not over yet. Meadows has apparently begun writing a second series.

Don't all cheer at once ;-D

[TheWizard]

After some brief nosing around Wikipedia I've found out that Vicky McClure (Lol) used to date Andrew Shim (Milky) and now dates Joseph Gilgun (Woody).

[Blumf]

Did it mention her dad at all?

[jimmy jazz]

Did it mention her dad at all?

Doesn't ring a bell, what hit TV shows would I remember him from?

[tarmac]

 

It just  felt very half-hearted. I was expecting some more of the milky lol  woody triangle, mainly. I felt unsure as to how it ended with them. 

Also, shaun's mum and the Indian guy, Meggy and his son, fat  guy and crazy lady, Harvey and his abusive dad etc. I don't need  happy resolutions, I just found the plotting strange. Meadows set a  few things up and then ignored them.

That was  my main issue too - the whole thing felt like a tremendous waste.   Why was Harvey even there?  Resurrecting a barely recognizable  bit-part character from the film, (who also happened to be a nasty  little fucker) as a fairly affable member of the 'crew' who gets  punched by his dad and then basically just sits the rest of the  series out, raised more questions than it answered.   On a  similar note, Meggy and Banjo were, (after Combo) two of the most  unpleasant characters in the original, yet now they're presented as a  harmless, bumbling comedy duo.  I'm not saying people don't  change, but in this format and being given so few clues, it doesn't  really translate that well.

Another major annoyance were the  cheap, chummy montage sequences, (a wheelchair race set to Happy  Hour? Nghhhhhhhhhh) and the unrelenting peppering of conversations  with MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE MATE  FUCKING MATEY MATING MATE MATE, just to show us what awfully good  chums they all are.

RapeDad was an interesting character and  I quite like the actor, but I think it ended up going a bit  overboard.  Do a bit of rape before bed, then up the next  morning try and do some more rape while being confronted about the  previous rape?  That's a bit too much rape.   
Didn't buy hammertime that much  either.  I'm sure that exact scene happens on EastEnders every  week – Meadows just threw a bit of blood and tit into the  mix.

Combo's section was a little bit messy, but ultimately I  could just about buy his actions.  Even in the original I could  never completely loathe the character – he was still a nasty and  dangerous piece of work who really angered me, but at his core he  appeared more unglued and confused than pure evil.  I think he  was ultimately a fantasist - fine with spouting his racist bollocks while waving machetes around and  bullying Muslim kids, but when he crossed the line at the end of the  film, he fell to pieces and was immediately repentant.  It made  sense that he'd still want to make up for it.  It also made  sense that in his own weird, stalkery way, he still genuinely cared  for Lol.  Would have liked to have seen a bit more of him though  – I think Stephen Graham's a belting actor.
Finally, it's already been mentioned, but most  of the characters just seemed like limp, diluted counterfeits of the  originals and this was the most disappointing aspect overall for me.   This Is England managed to pack more characterisation into its mere  hour and a half, than the series did in an entire three or so hours.

[joshg]

Would have been so much better if it was shorter. There was way too much filler and unnecessary, half arsed stories . Get rid of Harvey, get rid of Gadget's relationship with Trudi, get rid of Banjo and Meggy and focus on the real shit.

It kind of looked like Meadows wasn't comfortable having people there as background characters, but I think it would have been a lot better had he had the balls to do so. There's no problem having a few people who don't have a lot going on their lives - most people often don't!

[thepuffpastryhangman]

The fight with the scooter, sorry, moped, boys begged for the dominoing of their bikes, musta been a budget thing that stopped it. The Keystone Cop intervention was terrible but most baffling was Banjo, some ex-con hard man, formerly capable of terrifying a roomful, now incapable of decking a dozen soft lads or even being a stand out tough guy in a mass brawl.

The incident typified the extent to which the whole thing mocked its audience. You were supposed to remember and reference some things while simultaneously ignoring all the shit that didn't remotely add up. Had it been any good that wouldn't matter, but it did.

[Icehaven]

I thought a 2nd series must be likely as there was so much left unresolved. Agree with all accusations of messiness too, to the point where I wonder if they even bothered watching the finished programme. The chronology was completely shot. That bit at the end with Lol, Woody, Milky, Kelly and the raped friend sitting apparently happily playing cards (when the rest of the world is watching England v Argentina), then cut to Combo in prison (after what must be the fastest arrest, questioning, charging and transferrance to prison to await trial in history) then cut back to Kelly crying and Lol comforting her, so who said what when? And why isn't Lol at the copshop or hospital? And the whole ''Hey let's have the wedding today'' bit was just absurd, nonsensical and served no narrative purpose whatsoever. And you never even find out where Combo's been and why he was bloodied up.
I did, however like 2 very small moments; When Combo was praying over his mother's body, he said something like ''thank you for today, today was a happy day'', which is the kind of thing they make kids say at school prayer time. There's quite a lot in him saying something like that at that moment, and it was kind of pathetic and poignant too. And at the end I liked Gadget's made-camp-by-slo-mo recreation of The Hand Of God while mouthing ''h a a a n d b a a a l l l l !'' at Shaun who clearly responds '' o h h h h  f f f u u u u u c c k k k  o f f f f f!''

[thepuffpastryhangman]

It's a shame they cut the bit in which Combo picks up the hammer in his own half, pirouettes - beating two old bill, runs with it, dodges the flailing fists of five moped boys, swerves inside Lol's mum's front door and slots the hammer clean into the skull of the lunging rapist.

[jfjnpxmy]

The fight with the scooter, sorry, moped, boys begged for the dominoing of their bikes, musta been a budget thing that stopped it. The Keystone Cop intervention was terrible but most baffling was Banjo, some ex-con hard man, formerly capable of terrifying a roomful, now incapable of decking a dozen soft lads or even being a stand out tough guy in a mass brawl.

To be fair, the film kind of laid the groundwork for Banjo being all bluff and no bluster. Following his frightening entrance, the extent of his hardmannery is standing looking menacing while Combo nicks a football, standing looking menacing while Combo threatens a shopkeeper, sitting looking chuffed while Combo shouts at him from Skins, holding down a 12 year old while Combo beats up Milky and playing Buckaroo with a teenage goth. Derek Vinyard he ain't.

[Icehaven]

Ah, but it's most likely not over yet. Meadows has apparently begun writing a second series.

Don't all cheer at once ;-D

This Is England '90 would be good, aciiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid!!!!. Combo's out and running the door at the Hacienda, Woody and Lol have split up after 'their' first child's appearance came as something as a shock to Woody, who's now managing the the Soup Dragons, Sean and Smell are running a Wimpy franchise, and Sean's mum is the biggest E dealer on the estate. And that fat one was murdered by a load of time travellers from 2010 who mistook him for James Corden.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Personally I think 'room for Romeo brass' is the worst in that regard, its so slight and breezy, then a character which was previously a loveable comedy buffoon becomes darker and more violent. But up until that point I'd felt nothing but sympathy for the character, and had been rooting for him to some extent. Then the film expects me to turn around and cheer him being beaten up and banished, previously I thought the laughter was meant to be in sympathy, it! seems i was just meant to be ridiculing an idiot!

Well the point of the character is that he appears to be quite a sweet, loveable bloke, but then you realise he's a horrible nasty cunt who was just acting nice to get what he wants, then you see his true colours (threatening the kid and the Dad) and he gets his comeuppance.

[thugler]

Well the point of the character is that he appears to be quite a sweet, loveable bloke, but then you realise he's a horrible nasty cunt who was just acting nice to get what he wants, then you see his true colours (threatening the kid and the Dad) and he gets his comeuppance.

I thought it seemed like he was mentally ill. Not a straight forward 'horrible nasty cunt'. Him getting clobbered wasn't a satisfactory ending, I didn't feel pleased that some poor deluded guy had been smashed up. Certainly not the feel good ending the film seemed to think it had. And his whole turn towards violence felt totally wrong after you had warmed to him as a background character.

[Borboski]

i don't know, I grew up in nottingham and I knew some nutters like that.  I think Shane Meadows in talking about said that this was what he was going for - and I think it paces it quite well. 

[thugler]

i don't know, I grew up in nottingham and I knew some nutters like that.  I think Shane Meadows in talking about said that this was what he was going for - and I think it paces it quite well.

Isn't it a bit of a cop out though? having a 'nutter' character who you don't bother to explain in any depth? they are just a 'nutter' and that's that is a bit unsatisfying. Combo was a character with depth.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I think he still had depth though. He was a sadistic nutter, but an intelligent one who played dumb in order to manipulate the people around him.

[Vitalstatistix]

Considine's performance raised it to levels the script couldn't have done alone.

Despite inconsistencies of tone, Romeo Brass is worth watching purely for said performance.

Twenty Four Seven is the Meadows film I think gets the tone right throughout. Bittersweet and tragic.

Spoiler alert

The fall from grace and violent end is utterly convincing and devastating

[close]