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Alien: The Prequel

Started by Feralkid, July 07, 2010, 11:26:05 PM

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JPA

Quote from: Cerys on July 11, 2010, 07:13:15 PM
Her response to the Queen alien action figure was that it was 'quite nasty'

The Kenner ones? I've got a load of those, I can't bear to get rid of them.




Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

What was Bishop doing with a dirty great Gattling gun?

Not to mention everything else that was wrong with those figures. Although the queen one was cool.

JPA

Indeed, the marines are quite ridiculous. I like the Aliens though as an extension of the 'Dog Alien' idea but with different animals. They used to come with little facehuggers as well, and one came with a small Dark Horse comic though I have no idea where that went.

El Unicornio, mang

They should have used some of those ideas for the post-Aliens films. A crab alien and a scorpion alien would be terrifying! Not sure what the story would be though, maybe the aliens crash land in Edinburgh Zoo or something

Ginyard

Quote from: Cerys on July 11, 2010, 07:13:15 PM
She wants to play Ripley.  I was cast as Newt.

Please tell me SNG plays Vasquez.

Quote from: JPA on July 11, 2010, 09:31:34 PM
[image]Alien Figures[/image]

Man, I had most of them when I was a kid!  They did come with mini face huggers which were identical save for the colour and, yes, the marines were all crap without exception.  The hovertread was cool though with its gun effects and wings but it was no powerloader (damn you Father Christmas, you blind bastard).  The crab was probably my favourite because you could fire alien mouths from its chest... it doubled nicely as a weapon against siblings.  The only two alien figures I didn't have were the queen face hugger and panther - a shame since the latter looks like the Alien3 'dog alien'.

They're all long gone now except for the classic scorpion alien (essentially the Giger model with a button on its back blowing the torso apart), which I still have somewhere and will have to play with again soon.

Cerys

This was the photo I showed her:



Quote from: Ginyard on July 11, 2010, 11:26:16 PM
Please tell me SNG plays Vasquez.

He hasn't been cast yet - but I'll see what I can do.

Mister Six

Something I've always wondered about the aliens in Aliens...

They're supposed to take genetic traits from the creatures that the facehuggers, er, hug, right? Which is why the aliens on the Nostromo are vaguely humanoid in appearance, and explains the dog-like alien in Alien 3. And the first creature we know has been face-hugged is the space jockey, a big HR Gieger-esque beastie. In the original story, they also cocooned people and turned them into facehuggers (or something). Does that mean, then, that the alien in Alien only looks all black and shiny because it's supposed to have absorbed the DNA of the Space Jockey species?

The aliens of the film series are all linked (Alien and Aliens are both set on the same hunk of rock; a facehugger from Aliens causes Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection comes about because of a clone of the Alien 3 beastie), but should the aliens in other parts of the franchise (the game, the AvP movies) technically look less Geigeresque?

Mister Six

Quote from: mobias on July 10, 2010, 09:37:20 PMBut where as it could have really built upon the, as James Cameron puts it,' bizarre psycho-sexual' horror of the first one it dispenses with all that and gives us this big shoot em up instead.

I'm not really that fussed, to be honest. Alien is an absolutely brilliant, genre-defining alien-as-slasher movie. Alien 3 showed that doing more stories like that would be a case of diminishing returns.

copylight

#39


ed- >

QuoteThe Book of Alien notes that the actors and crew felt instinctively that the Space Jockey was a benign creature, though they could not say why. In the bonus materials of the special edition Alien  DVD, director Ridley Scott expresses the opinion that a film exploring the backstory of the Space Jockey would be an interesting direction for the series to take. Indeed, a prequel to the Alien series, to be directed by Scott himself, is set to explore this very backstory.[2]  When discussing ideas for the prequels, Scott has suggested that the carcass of the Space Jockey seen in the original Alien is actually just a space suit, containing a very different-looking being inside.[3]

That and a Grunt roast barbecue of course.

JPA

Quote from: thehungerartist on July 12, 2010, 12:58:30 AM
Man, I had most of them when I was a kid!  They did come with mini face huggers which were identical save for the colour and, yes, the marines were all crap without exception.  The hovertread was cool though with its gun effects and wings but it was no powerloader (damn you Father Christmas, you blind bastard).  The crab was probably my favourite because you could fire alien mouths from its chest... it doubled nicely as a weapon against siblings.  The only two alien figures I didn't have were the queen face hugger and panther - a shame since the latter looks like the Alien3 'dog alien'.

There were also a few more Aliens than shown above - Wild Boar Alien which I have for example, and I also remember there was a Night Cougar one, which was basically just the Leopard Alien but black instead.

Cerys

I wonder if there's a slug alien.  Or a koala alien.  Or a guppy alien.  These things need to be considered.


Cerys

You're just being silly now.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

How could a facehugger latch onto a scorpion in the first place? Unless it was a giant scorpion, in which case it would already be scarifying enough on its own without the need for alienification.

Cohaagen

#45
I still have my preposterous Kenner Gorilla Alien, and my limited edition Queen Alien with its rubber bladder shooty-outy mouth apparatus and tail which liked to spontaneously fall off. And all the Dark Horse comics up to Hive. Incidentally, they already did Crab Aliens in the Aliens: Colonial Marines comics, before anyone mentions it.

I entirely agree with those who say that conflating the Alien with a hive-making insect devalued and demystified the creature. The original Laserdisc version of the famously-excised "Cocoon Scene" (which did not feature Wilford Brimley before anyone cracks wise) was genuinely horrifying. The restored scene featured in the recent re-release isn't very well edited - the original version that I saw as a young child, showing a whimpering Tom Skerritt ("Nnnnwrrrripleeeeey!") and Harry Dean Stanton being eating by a piece of fibreglass, was utterly horrific. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a bunch of Jesus eaters were so disturbed by the appearance of the Space Jockey that they set the original prop on fire at the premiere.

As much as I love Aliens, it being my introduction to the series, the first is by far the better film, if less immediately rewarding. Cameron's real genius was in his sensibility for production design and art direction. I can't think of another film, except perhaps Mad Max 2, which manages to maintain and expand upon the mythology of a fictional universe purely through visual means without any awkward expository dialogue. That appraisal does not change the fact that he is a complete mother fucker for griping about the hugely professional, time-served craftsmen at Pinewood who had the audacity to stop for a tea break!!! in the afternoon, unlike the non-unionised Mexicans he'd exploited on the set of Terminator.

The assembly cut of Alien 3 is much better than the theatrical version, even though all the dubbed incidental music makes it reminiscent of an episode of Inspector Morse. One of the things you really appreciate about the film - particularly given the abomination that followed it - is how rigorously they strived to maintain the "feel" of the Alien universe/canon. Not just in art direction and casting, even down to the concept from the original movie that the Company is a sort of Anglo-Japanese commercial/political alliance. It was not just Paul Resier in a bodywarmer.

Having said my piece, I do look forward to seeing the prequel, particularly the inevitable sequences where Sir Ridley imitates Steven Spielberg's 15-your old open-shutter shakycam action sequence techniques from Saving Private Ryan once again.

Cohaagen

In view of the tag, I feel the full quote must be included for the record:

Quote"I created the Alien to be something beautiful, but now it looks like shit. It is now something that looks literally like a turd."
-HR Giger

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Cohaagen on July 12, 2010, 04:09:50 PM


As much as I love Aliens, it being my introduction to the series, the first is by far the better film, if less immediately rewarding. Cameron's real genius was in his sensibility for production design and art direction. I can't think of another film, except perhaps Mad Max 2, which manages to maintain and expand upon the mythology of a fictional universe purely through visual means without any awkward expository dialogue. That appraisal does not change the fact that he is a complete mother fucker for griping about the hugely professional, time-served craftsmen at Pinewood who had the audacity to stop for a tea break!!! in the afternoon, unlike the non-unionised Mexicans he'd exploited on the set of Terminator.


There was an interview with Bill Paxton where he said that some fella was going round collecting money for something or other, and when he came to James Cameron, Cameron did a Christian Bale on him in front of the whole crew. Stanley Kubrick got pissed off with the UK crews at times too, in the FMJ behind the scenes footage he gripes about the tea breaks.

I'd love to see more Giger art used as inspiration for future films, images like these bring to mind disturbing ideas of a distant future where aliens are kind of fused with humans.



WH40k actually used a lot of Giger ideas (unofficially) for their imagery and it worked well

copylight

That's horrible and not in a good way - very tacky.

JPA

Quote from: Cohaagen on July 12, 2010, 04:09:50 PM
The assembly cut of Alien 3 is much better than the theatrical version, even though all the dubbed incidental music makes it reminiscent of an episode of Inspector Morse.

I still haven't seen that yet, though I have the boxset. On the subject of animals - isn't the Alien born from an Ox in that cut?

El Unicornio, mang

Yep, although I haven't seen it either. The worst thing for me about Alien3 is killing off Hicks and Newt. We go through this whole thing in Aliens where Ripley risks everything to save them, and then...oh sorry, they're both dead. Don't know whey they couldn't write them, or at least Newt, into the script. (the original idea was to make Hicks the main character in Alien3, and bring back Ripley for Alien4)

Spiteface

Quote from: JPA on July 12, 2010, 05:42:54 PM
I still haven't seen that yet, though I have the boxset. On the subject of animals - isn't the Alien born from an Ox in that cut?

Yeah, it's born from a dead ox the inmates find outside, and they also stumble across a red "queen" facehugger, which presumably is the one that impregnated Ripley:



(apologies for the massive pic)

Cohaagen

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on July 12, 2010, 04:28:19 PMStanley Kubrick got pissed off with the UK crews at times too, in the FMJ behind the scenes footage he gripes about the tea breaks.

I think this may just be a trait common to enormously determined auters with a singular visual imagination and poor interpersonal skills, rather than an indictment of film making in run-down, union-barracked 1980s Britain as Cameron later tried to explain it. Certainly seeing the Alien Makers series (one of the really good fan-made documentaries around) gave me an even greater appreciation of the craftsmanship involved in miniatures, matte painting, set dressing, etc.

The first two are up here: http://www.zen171398.zen.co.uk/

Quote from: JPA on July 12, 2010, 05:42:54 PM
I still haven't seen that yet, though I have the boxset. On the subject of animals - isn't the Alien born from an Ox in that cut?

Yes, it is. The ox prop is shit, really.

The assembly cut really benefits from the extended 30m of running time. You get at least the chance to identify with the characters, rather than trying to spot various guest stars from Casualty, The Bill, and old Alan Clarke films.

Hard as it is to believe, the mess of a film they ended up with was probably the best they could have achieved, given the scripts they were given. They were all atrocious - Eric Red, William Gibson, Vincent Ward, Twohy, etc. Fucking wretched. Ward is usually acclaimed as the misunderstood genius mangled by the process, but he is the one who tried to fuck around with an established genre franchise by introducing bald monks, cardboard planets, Terminator 2 shapeshifter aliens and - last refuge of the creatively bankrupt - Christ imagery.

The guy getting his head eaten off is good though.

EDIT: and the Tetley Tea man getting pulled through the ceiling.

mobias

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on July 12, 2010, 04:28:19 PM


I'd love to see more Giger art used as inspiration for future films, images like these bring to mind disturbing ideas of a distant future where aliens are kind of fused with humans.


You should get yourself a copy of this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigers-Alien-H-R-Giger/dp/185286219X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278956522&sr=8-1

Its got all the design work he did for alien plus loads and loads of unused stuff, some of which is truly terrifying looking. If they do make an Alien prequel I really hope they use some of the unused creature designs from this book. When you see Giger's original designs you can totally see why he hated what Cameron came up with for what the aliens looked like in Aliens, particularly the queen. There was a real elegance about the look of Giger's alien and all his other designs, there's a kind of terrifying beauty about them. Cameron's stuff just looked hideous and ugly in comparison.

Agree with everything Cohaagen says about Alien 3 - the extended version is a lot better than the theatrical release.  The accompanying extras DVD is fascinating as it charts the travails of everyone involved in getting the film made: whilst hardly a masterpiece, it's to Fincher's credit that Alien 3 turned out even half as good as it did. 

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on July 12, 2010, 05:46:56 PM
Don't know whey they couldn't write them, or at least Newt, into the script. (the original idea was to make Hicks the main character in Alien3, and bring back Ripley for Alien4)

One factor might be the actress who played her having aged which of course Newt wouldn't do in cryosleep.

Cerys

They could have explained that away with the old 'faulty cryochamber' ploy.

mobias

Quote from: thehungerartist on July 12, 2010, 07:47:17 PM


One factor might be the actress who played her having aged which of course Newt wouldn't do in cryosleep.

I'm sure they could have found another blond eight year old that looked vaguely similar to play her though.

The problem with Alien 3 and indeed like that of Aliens is that by falling over themselves to distance themselves stylistically and narratively from the film that came before them both films ended up suffering. On the one hand you can applaud the franchise producers for getting in a very unique and visionary director for each new movie but at the same time each movie just feels disjointed from the one that came before it. There is absolutely no harmony between any of them. I'm a huge Jean-Pierre Jeunet fan but fucking hell he was utterly the wrong choice for Alien Resurrection. Danny Boyle turned down doing it but he would have done a far better job.

The Widow of Brid

I believe Carrie Henn had already decided acting wasn't for her by that point, so they'd have had to recast Newt anyway.

Mark me down as one of the few who liked the insect life-cycle stuff. I loved the feeling that the aliens weren't even properly aware, that all the human deaths were just a result of blind instinct. Proper horrible Lovecraftian insignificance.

Spiteface

Quote from: Mister Six on July 12, 2010, 09:32:08 AM
Something I've always wondered about the aliens in Aliens...

They're supposed to take genetic traits from the creatures that the facehuggers, er, hug, right? Which is why the aliens on the Nostromo are vaguely humanoid in appearance, and explains the dog-like alien in Alien 3. And the first creature we know has been face-hugged is the space jockey, a big HR Gieger-esque beastie. In the original story, they also cocooned people and turned them into facehuggers (or something). Does that mean, then, that the alien in Alien only looks all black and shiny because it's supposed to have absorbed the DNA of the Space Jockey species?

The aliens of the film series are all linked (Alien and Aliens are both set on the same hunk of rock; a facehugger from Aliens causes Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection comes about because of a clone of the Alien 3 beastie), but should the aliens in other parts of the franchise (the game, the AvP movies) technically look less Geigeresque?

I don't think the Embryos from facehuggers created by a queen take any traits from hosts of previous "generations".  I know it's shit, but in the AvP2 film, the Predalien (believed to actually be a young queen) can impregnate hosts itself, sans-facehugger, i.e. the hospital scene where it does so to a pregnant woman, with many embryos.  None of the chestbursters born from that woman are Predalien in any way, but your typical humanoid alien.  I suppose that makes the embryos  "Pure" alien DNA, until they are injected into a host.

Someone who knows more about this could probably explain it better than me.

One thing I noticed on repeated viewing of the films over the years, is that until a few years ago, i never noticed the transparent dome on the alien in the first film:



Something omitted by other films in the series or it's not quite as evident.  Even though I liked Aliens for being an entirely different film to the first, it kind of bugs me a little now, as seeing the skull like that makes it even creepier.

mobias

Quote from: Spiteface on July 12, 2010, 08:31:05 PM

One thing I noticed on repeated viewing of the films over the years, is that until a few years ago, i never noticed the transparent dome on the alien in the first film:

Something omitted by other films in the series.  Even though I liked Aliens for being an entirely different film to the first, it kind of bugs me a little now, as seeing the skull like that makes it even creepier.

Yeah the Alien in the first film actually has quite big scull like eyes if you look really closely. In the photos of the Alien in the Giger's Alien book you can see all the shots of it where the big eyes are clearly visible. 

On another note I'd love to go to HR Giger's museum in Switzerland and see the life size Aliens he's got for real. I know a girl who went and she told me they're unbelievably massive.