"Cheggersgate"

[Utter Shit]

Don't know if any of you bother your arses with Twitter but it's been a good bit of fun on there today. Keith Chegwin has been tweeting all sorts of old jokes, some of them notably attributable to working comedians like Lee Mack and Milton Jones. Simon Evans pointed this out reasonably politely:

@thekeithchegwin Cheggars old chap, you are no doubt acting out of good intentions but these jokes are written by professionals.

At which point Cheggers, to put it bluntly, "went mental".

Always been honest about my gags, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN. Most of the gags are my own & some I remember from old. If ya don't like it 'UNFOLLOW'

think its the ususal bunch of jealous comics...

I've really upset these standup comics. Most of them doesn't write good stuff they just refresh your memory.- @MrEdByrne what a surprise!

Ed Byrne has waded in with a little bit of nastiness, can't decide whether it's deserved or not:

"Most of them doesn't write good stuff" That's the command of English that's kept you off our screens all this time.

Evans has since posted a DM sent from Chegwin to him...

Massive response to Cheggarsgate. This was DM to me: Thanks for the sarcasm but most of the so called professionals nick their gags from me.

Chegwin has also posted, but since deleted, a comment asking Byrne if he should have to attribute jokes when most of them are by people who are dead. Byrne pointed out that two of his most recent jokes were from Mack and Jones.

It's all very undignified but I'm quite enjoying it. Evans is just about the only one coming out of it particularly well.

[koeman]

I've been following it. I think it's completely shit to just nick other people's jokes and pass them off as your own, which is what Cheggers is doing. Fair dos if he'd held his hands up and said he was just retweeting jokes that he liked and was happy to attribute them to the people who'd written them, but he didn't. Where's the satisfaction in having people pat you on the back for jokes that were written by someone else?!

[jumpedship]

Simon Evans is a class act . Cheggers totally unapologetic tone and his pathetic "youre all jealous" schtick is all a bit sad.

[koeman]

According to Cheggers' wikipedia, in 2002 he coined the phrase 'Cheggars can't be boozers'. The lying bastard, I came up with that in Sixth Form in 1999!

[localhero87]

Haha, I was JUST reading through all this on my twitter feed and come on here and you all have it covered. Great stuff.

I can understand the comics being severely narked. But the medium that the jokes are being told on is twitter. Its not a stage.

However that said, he should always reference the jokes, if anything just out of respect, never mind to give them recognition. Surely thats what the "retweet" button is for?

[Gulftastic]

According to Cheggers' wikipedia, in 2002 he coined the phrase 'Cheggars can't be boozers'. The lying bastard, I came up with that in Sixth Form in 1999!

And I'm fairly certain 'Viz' beat you both to it, using it a few years before that.

[koeman]

I can understand the comics being severely narked. But the medium that the jokes are being told on is twitter. Its not a stage.

In some ways it's worse though. I'm sure everyone's had that experience where they come away from a great stand-up show and can't remember any of the good lines the next day. If you can remember some, you might tell them to your mates. But if you put them on Twitter, where you have thousands of followers, then lots of people are seeing the joke, and if they like it then they'll retweet it, email it to their mates, put it on joke sites etc. Which, if you're trying to make a living from the jokes you write, must be a right pain in the arse.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

If you write a joke, someone else uses it and people laugh, haven't you achieved your objective by proxy?

If you write a joke, someone else uses it and someone gets paid for it, then that's a different matter. But it's twitter and Cheggers wasn't meaning any harm, so perhaps people really should chill out about it.

[Lyndon]

Can't help supporting "Cheggers" when the oppo are such a bunch of cunts. I like the idea of him sitting at home giggling as Ed Byrne - Ed Byrne - gets worked up over a lack of integrity. I'm going to pretend the caps lock responses were tongue in cheek too, cos my knowledge of the situation is insufficient enough to allow me this luxury. If I was on Twitter now I would tell Cheggers he was very funny. Say something about "a little bit of wee coming out" after reading his last Tweet, cos that's the level the other comedians are aiming for.

[easytarget]

I like the idea of him sitting at home giggling as Ed Byrne - Ed Byrne - gets worked up over a lack of integrity.

yes. it's very ironic.

ahahahahahaha.

[mycroft]

I just hope Ed doesn't end up taking his annoyance out on poor little Mobly.

[SavageHedgehog]

And I'm fairly certain 'Viz' beat you both to it, using it a few years before that.

I've heard (caveat etc.) that it was used in Filty, Rich and Catflap (i.e. in 1987) but does not appear on the VHS or DVD releases for leagal reasons.

[HodgerMccodger]

On the subject of plagiarism of jokes; Jimmy Carr was on Jonathan Ross where he used the "is a bit like being the worlds tallest dwarf" line which I'd heard from Stewart Lee's 41st Best Stand Up show. I suppose it is not that remarkable- but he just used it word for word- he could have at least changed it to midget out of respect, or some gesture of goodwill.

I didn't notice this get mentioned on here, or by Stewart Lee (who is keen to point out theft of material).

Also Richard Herring's line in Hitler's Moustache about how women should be treated as if they were equal, was also used by Daniel Kitson. I find it difficult to believe that Richard Herring wouldn't have heard Kitson's show, but then he seemed so pleased with the line on the podcast when he said it initially, that I am inclined to believe that he just came up with it. I suppose it's not that important.

[biggytitbo]

Sometimes people do come up with the same joke independently though. Well not sometimes, all the time. Not that that's what's Cheggers is doing, but I like his amusingly childish attitude and he is entertaining me, albeit unintentionally.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I didn't notice this get mentioned on here, or by Stewart Lee (who is keen to point out theft of material).

Unsurprising really, it isn't funny.

[CaledonianGonzo]

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/07/19/11396/cheggers_plays_thief

[dr_christian_troy]

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/07/19/11396/cheggers_plays_thief

'But Chegwin turned on the acts whose work he was lifting, tweeting ungrammatically: 'I've really upset these standup comics. Most of them doesn't write good Stuff they just refresh your memory.'

And he said he wouldn't be upset if other people stole his jokes – which might be a problem if they weren't his to give away in the first place. 'Look If I do a gag. I'm not worried - If you nick it for yourself,' he weeted. 'Good on ya.. so long as it gives people a chuckle. Life is too short.'


Heh, good ol' Chortle. Every week.

[Icehaven]

Is he back on the sauce?

[eluc55]

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2010/07/19/11396/cheggers_plays_thief

Urgh, that's pretty cringeworthy in itself, the story being reported on chortle as if Cheggers is the only one making a tit of himself. No bias there.

He was telling jokes on Twitter; countless non celebs must do that, and he's under no obligation to credit anyone, though it might have been nice. You wouldn't expect people on Facebook to list all the comedians they've quoted jokes from; its just the way of the internet, and human bloody communication. The fact a load of hacks have jumped on him, as if him posting them on Twitter makes them somehow equivalent to "paid material", is far more revealing.

Obviously the fact he's then claimed he wrote them himself makes it slightly easier to attack him, but the simple fact is, the newer comedians are the ones who come out looking like insecure, over sensitive and money focussed bullys throwing their weight around and embarrassing people in full view of all their precious followers.

For pete's sake, its Keith Chegwin! How petty do you have to be to care if Keith bloody Chegwin is quoting you? To paraphrase the old line about Jimmy Carr, if Keith Chegwin can steal you're jokes, you really might want to get new jokes. In fact, the fact that any old hack can tell you're jokes is evidence enough that your act ain't worth fook in the first place. Write something personnel, not just a string of indistinguishable gags.   

Christ, Twitter - or more specifically the proximity to their own fans - really has brought out the very worst in British comedians hasn't it? It's like they didn't know about the internet until a year or two ago.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Looks like doddery-old piss-face Cheggers just can't get with the modern chillaxed social networking sites and their ridiculously petty legion of crap idle stand-ups.

[Mr_Simnock]

What if he genuinely believes he came up with them first? I have a theory that most jokes are all probably far older than they know and most are in fact reinvented independently all the time. Now we have all this social networking with news flying round at a million miles an hour with everyone keen to get their bit in first, are we to end up with a joke credits ledger somewhere?

[confettiinmyhair]

Or is this Cheggers merely capitlizing on the power of Twitter to instigate a story about himself? Let's be honest, he's more or less been forgotten by most people, something like this brings him back into the 'limelight'. Followers of other famous people make reference of @Cheggers (or whatever he tweets as) and he is suddenly back, and of interest, open to possible media offers (an appearence on Come Dine With Me? Dating in the Dark?). All thanks to a twitstorm.

[HAYRDRYAH]

To paraphrase the old line about Jimmy Carr, if Keith Chegwin can steal you're jokes, you really might want to get new jokes. In fact, the fact that any old hack can tell you're jokes is evidence enough that your act ain't worth fook in the first place. Write something personnel, not just a string of indistinguishable gags

What are you on about? You're saying that elegant, irreducible wordplay like the Milton Jones joke is worthless because it works independently of delivery? This is the way of Twitter, I'm afraid: I'm sure if he could tweet an Andy Kaufman routine, he would.

^{Apologies if you were just 'thought-experimenting'}

[ajsmith]

Wasn't "the world's tallest Dwarf" used by John Flansburgh in a 1989 UKTV interview with They Might Be Giants (as seen in their docu "Gigantic"?): even then, I very much doubt he originated it. Seems partially dervied from the the NZ rock outfit The Tall Dwarves (founded 1979) anyhow.

[eluc55]

What are you on about? You're saying that elegant, irreducible wordplay like the Milton Jones joke is worthless because it works independently of delivery? This is the way of Twitter, I'm afraid: I'm sure if he could tweet an Andy Kaufman routine, he would.

^{Apologies if you were just 'thought-experimenting'}

I haven't read the jokes he's passed on, and obviously if any of them contain "elegant, irreducible wordplay" unique to a specific comic then fair play. My point is that the best material and the sort of thing that defines a good comic is unique, personnal and an integral part of a character, story, concept or performance. It's context that makes a good joke. Gags are ten a penny, and having one passed on shouldn't be a major problem. Stewart Lee couldn't have someone pass on his best jokes, not with twitter's word limit anyway... nor could any of the best stand ups currently working. Their best material is woven into a longer ensemble -  like I say, a theme, a story, or a concept. If an act is heavily reliant on stand alone gags that anyone can deliver, then the act cant be tremendously interesting in the first place.

There are several obvious exceptions, but the main point I'm making is that the comedians should be able to cope with a few jokes being passed on, since gags alone are nothing special. It's only in a context that material really takes off, and a stand up will always have that advantage over twitter.

Plus, as I said before, what does it matter if a z-list celeb passes your jokes on? It's not another mainstream comedian; it is, to all intents and purposes, a stranger passing on your joke to a group of (pretend) friends. Do these comedians plan to hunt down every fan whose passed on their jokes? Or is it only embarrasing, washed up old hacks they want to humiliate? TBH I think its the repellent gang mentality I dislike so much about this sort of thing. The idea that the comedians who challenge Chegwin aren't doing it out of a genuine love of the art, but because they want to look good in front of all there followers or want to be part of a "happening", like a school boy goaded on by his smaller friends. Or like Richard Hammond _{cf Stewart Lee - 2009}

[HAYRDRYAH]

It's context that makes a good joke

Unless it's on Twitter, which you seem to suggest is no context at all?

I just find your argument so sweeping and dismissive of anything that manages to fit a setup and punchline into 140 characters. Frankly, it's long-form routines that are comparatively easy, whereas ideas that can collide concisely are much more scarce. Look at Morris' 'Proof if proof be need be'. That's a 6 word essay on the subjunctive, and therefore much more impressive than any Blue Jam monologue.

[eluc55]

Unless it's on Twitter, which you seem to suggest is no context at all?

I'm sorry, I don't know how much clearer I can be.

A list of gags without context is nothing special. I get tons of them sent to me every day at work via email; many of them are quite funny. I'm saying that really good comedy is made up of jokes that are part of something larger; jokes that are funny because of the part they play in a wider context; a longer routine, an argument, a story or as part of a character. The best jokes are inseparable from that context, or at least lose what makes them so good when simply listed as a stand-alone "gag". Twitter has no such context, in large part due to the word limit (unless he's tweeting entire routines).

And yes, obviously twitter is a "context", but not in the sense I'm talking about. The jokes are just listed, not incorporated into something more meaningful and worthwhile; its just a bloody list.

[eluc55]

I just find your argument so sweeping and dismissive of anything that manages to fit a setup and punchline into 140 characters. Frankly, it's long-form routines that are comparatively easy, whereas ideas that can collide concisely are much more scarce. Look at Morris' 'Proof if proof be need be'. That's a 6 word essay on the subjunctive, and therefore much more impressive than any Blue Jam monologue.

Sorry this was added afterwards, so I didn't see it before my previous reply.

I'm not dismissive of jokes like that. I'm just saying that they're not the meat and veg of a good stand up routine; or at least they shouldn't be. They should just be a delicious garnish on top of something more substantial, or better still an ingredient in the delicious sauce that makes the meal so scrummy. An ingredient which tastes less pleasant when it's not mixed in. Ginger for example. These jokes should be like ginger.   

EDIT: Sorry, and why compare it to Blue Jam monologues? You should compare it to the show it was taken from; Brass eye. Is the line funnier when written in isolation, or in the context of the episode it was intended for?

re: Morris' line you've quoted.... surely that line proves my point, though, as a) it's not half as effective when quoted out of context - its a joke that only really works when delivered by Morris, in a show about the pompous language of news/current affairs, and b) it's very clearly identifiable as a "morrisism". It's a unique line, that wouldn't be easy to pass on as someone else's, at least in a bloody list of jokes on twitter.

[HAYRDRYAH]

Ah, personal taste I suppose. In some ways, Twitter is MORE contextual than a standup set, because it's a dialogue with natural conversation cues, rather than a comedian onstage pretending to converse with an audience. So a witty retort is more unexpected than if it were related at the end of an embroidered setup. Of course, the effort involved in memorising other comedians' witty retorts to any possible situation might actually make one witty, so watch out for that.

[HAYRDRYAH]

Sorry about that, I fancied myself an edit-ninja; didn't work

I'm just saying that they're not the meat and veg of a good stand up routine

These are jokes from stand-up routines, written by stand-up comedians. However, when transcribed to a written medium, like Twitter, they still work. So why judge them against an artform whose best examples you admit wouldn't work in the same (non-)context? Stand-up comedy is not the One True Comedic Form. Why not measure them against Ambrose Bierce, or Jack Handey, or James Thurber, or Willie Donaldson, or Dorothy Parker, or Emil Cioran?

While we're telling each other off for poor comparisons.....

EDIT: Sorry, and why compare it to Blue Jam monologues? You should compare it to the show it was taken from; Brass eye. Is the line funnier when written in isolation, or in the context of the episode it was intended for?

re: Morris' line you've quoted.... surely that line proves my point, though, as a) it's not half as effective when quoted out of context - its a joke that only really works when delivered by Morris, in a show about the pompous language of news/current affairs, and b) it's very clearly identifiable as a "morrisism". It's a unique line, that wouldn't be easy to pass on as someone else's, at least in a bloody list of jokes on twitter.

Rebecca Front as Romella Belx in TDT, but the point holds. I'd say the line was perfectly self-contained; the fact it embodies the show's aesthetic is a plus. Also, suggesting that line is typical of Morris is wildly flattering.