"Cheggersgate"

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

A good gag is a work of art. It's also a highly repeatable work of art. If it's being repeated and isn't actually being stolen in order to make money, then like koeman above, you should be happy. People think you're funny, which is presumably what you wanted when you wrote the gag.

[Little Hoover]

I always nick koeman's tags and post them on other boards.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

PM just had Cheggers on, then Ed Byrne and Barry Cryer. Really sad hearing Cryer stick up for Byrne and moan about bootlegging.

[actwithoutwords]

I do a weekly slot at a local comedy club where I read out koeman's tags verbatim as if they were my own material. That's ok, right?

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Mostly through traffic is it then?

[koeman]

I always nick koeman's tags and post them on other boards.

I do a weekly slot at a local comedy club where I read out koeman's tags verbatim as if they were my own material. That's ok, right?

I don't mind at all, as long as you subscribe to koeman-bingo.com.

Was Cheggers ever actually genuinely that popular, or is he just a bit of a retro figure who perennial students worship as a genius for reasons of nostalgia and their desire for randomness? I don't remember him ever being anything other than a figure of fun. Cheggers Plays Pop was either before my time or else never impinged upon my consciousness, and the main thing I remember him for was a railway safety video that he did in the eighties that they showed us at school, which had a bit of novelty value because he looked so young in it. Whatever, I don't remember him ever before claiming that throughout his career he's been prolifically churning out comedy gold like some fly-machine mash up of Barry Cryer and Eddie Braben.

Joke theft has been rife since time began. Bob Monkhouse mentioned in his tremendous book 'Over the Limit' that he used to pinch jokes off the American radio comedians as he thought they were less likely to find out about it. (Incidentally, how great would Monkhouse have been on Twitter? Very great, in case you're wondering). I think my objection to this whole thing is now boiling down to my annoyance that people who aren't comedy savvy CaB posters don't actually know that he's nicking these jokes, and thus are lauding him as a comic genius (sad in itself, given the quality of many of the jokes he nicks). There's a lad from school on my Facebook who does a similar thing, nicking gag after gag from Sickipedia and convincing his mates he's some sort of boundary-pushing wit. Whereas I know he's actually pinching all of his wilfully offensive jokes from one website. Why does it bother me? It doesn't really, I've just had a stressful day and fancied writing a nice long rant.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

How many one liners would Cheggers have to nick before it starts infringing upon a set though? If each one takes a few seconds to tell, it's a drop in t'ocean out o' a 30, 60, 90 (Go!) minute set.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

On the front page of sickipedia:

If you're repeating a gag from a comic - always credit it. It's only fair.
If you see a gag written by a comic that's uncredited?
Help the community - credit it. You will now gain bonus points.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Was Cheggers ever actually genuinely that popular, or is he just a bit of a retro figure who perennial students worship as a genius for reasons of nostalgia and their desire for randomness?

Nope - that's about the size of it..

[HAYRDRYAH]

I'm pretty sure my generation is too young remember his television career, and knows him best as Fleance in the Polanski Macbeth, if at all. And even then, only those whose schools count 'sticking a video on' as a valid activity for an English Literature class

[Hank_Kingsley]

I'm pretty sure my generation is too young remember his television career, and knows him best as Fleance in the Polanski Macbeth, if at all. And even then, only those whose schools count 'sticking a video on' as a valid activity for an English Literature class

It's perfectly valid. You remembered it didn't you?

How much else can you say you can recall from English at secondary school? How many other chances do you get to watch Polanski at school?

Be grateful you stinking hog.

[thepuffpastryhangman]

Yeah, Polanski never nicks gags.

[Hank_Kingsley]

What, Polanksi?

The only gags he took were from the mouths of under-age girls.

(After he committed statutory rape)

[thepuffpastryhangman]

That was fast. Edited from "he never nicked any gags."

I was wondering how good Cheggers'd have to get before folks cut him some Tweets slack.

Keith, yes, we let Roman off a few counts of child rape. Similarly we're considering turning a blind eye to your stealing four short jokes.

[Small Man Big Horse]

Nope - that's about the size of it..

I don't know, during the early eighties whilst he was doing Swap Shop and Plays Pop he was fairly popular. And the first single by "Brown Sauce" was pretty funny. Though of course he was no Stu Francis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbK7ncKJanM

Edit: Blimey, just watched that for the first time in years. And for it alone, he gets a lifetime pass from me.

[CollaterlySisters]

PM just had Cheggers on, then Ed Byrne and Barry Cryer. Really sad hearing Cryer stick up for Byrne and moan about bootlegging.

Barry Cryer said 'Jokes are fair game. Material is sacrosanct.' So I thought he meant if you know who writes it, that makes it material, & hence not crediting is theft? (Copyright Barry Cryer all rights reserved). I didn't htink he was moaning per se about bootlegging, just pointing out that Twitter didn't create the problem (as he sees it).

I think that most comedians engage in banter with their fanbase. It's just so much quicker on Twitter, they're apt to sometimes feel more threatened/defensive. Remember the pre-digital days of haranging people outside theatres??

[j_u_d_a_s]

I have no problem with justifying my position. I've done so numerous times already.

"I'm sorry, I don't know how much clearer I can be."

"Urgh, cant believe I have to do this here of all places"

No problem here, no sirree!

No. I simply don't expect to have to clarify that something is my opinion on this comedy forum. The argument I made above (about it obviously being opinion) has been made here hundreds of times. It's common sense to realise things written here are opinion; every subject we're discussing in comedy chat is subjective. No one else has written "In my opinion" before there posts; its redundant. A basic assumption of any subjective debate.

Except you're making OBJECTIVE STATEMENTS!

"My point is that the best material and the sort of thing that defines a good comic is unique, personnal and an integral part of a character, story, concept or performance. It's context that makes a good joke. Gags are ten a penny, and having one passed on shouldn't be a major problem."

See how easily that could be fixed by just adding IMO in front of it?
Plz to be recognising the difference kthxbye

Well, off the top of my head; Graham Linehan, Stephen Fry, Marcus Brigstock, Alan Davis, Charlie Brooker, as well as a number of comedians who have sourced material from their followers (see the relevant threads) and now the handful involved in this. That's a surprisingly large number already, I'm sure there are more... and as I made explicitly clear in one of my first posts, its likely the proximity to their fans thats had an effect. To be clear, there's not one specific effect and I can't list all the effects it seems to have had on them (I'm at work and shouldn't even be on the net); in any case, there are numerous threads already on this. Look up any of the recent twitter threads about Graham Linehan, Stephen Fry, Marcus Brigstock, Alan Davis, you'll see how its influenced them. Obviously its not twitter's fault. It's their fault for letting the fan relationship alter their work (in the cases where it has). In some cases its just revealed or allowed them to indulge their precious side.

How wonderfully disingenious of you to mention "the handful involved in this". I'll break it down for you so you can easily understand that it was Keith Chegwin who stole the gags from working comics and reposted them as his own. And in the majority of cases you've mentioned, they're guilty of being incredibly touchy and, especially in Alan Davies's case, being aggressive and fanning the flames of their fanbases mob mentality.

What difference does it make? My point will stand regardless, as its not about specific jokes, rather the attitude. The only exception would be if it turns out he's passed on whole routines as his own.

Your point is only supported by your own flawed view of this whole situation and circular logic. "one line gags are worthless therefore there is no theft"

Well, again, this has all been covered on this forum many times before. See recent threads on any of the comedians listed above. Graham Linehan, Stephen Fry, Marcus Brigstock, Alan Davis, Charlie Brooker, as well as a number of comedians who have sourced material from their followers (see the other threads) and now the handful involved in this.

Agreed all of that has been covered before. But how does it apply to this situation? Is it ok because other comics are guilty now?

Plus there's the whole "pretending to be friends so they can sell stuff more succesfully", and the whole "surrounding themselves with sycophancy" angle that can be applied more generally to most of the Celebs using twitter.

I don't doubt that just about every celeb will have a fawning fanbase on twitter, heck as we've seen even Keith Chegwin can command a following. But wouldn't you think that comics working the circuit might actually... y'know, become at the very least good acquaintances? As we've seen, Ed Byrne and Simon Evans have both spoken out on Milton Jones and Lee Macks behalf over this issue. I fail to see how they're doing this to further their own careers.

I've not been passive aggressive towards any posters at all. With exception of you who called me a moron first. And lo and behold its sidetracked the discussion; I'm happy to continue if it s kept civil, but not otherwise.

Oy vey, you're still hung up over one word in a large post, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck...
It's only sidetracked the discussion because you've let it do so, if that's all it takes to offend you then maybe the internet really isn't the place for you. You don't get to control how the discussion continues I'm afraid. Your initial posts suggest you're not really interested in discussion, just commenting for its own sake. When pulled up on it, you simply repeat what you said.

And as I've already quoted, yes you have been. I'm sorry I really don't know how I can make that any clearer.

I've already answered it. You just disagree. But to be clear: I've suggested numerous reasons why a few jokes from each comedian shouldn't matter. In principle, it's no different from emails sent to thousands of people full of gags; they've been passed around for years. I don't approve of stealing jokes, and if it was a mainstream comedian I might think slightly differently. But Chegwin isn't a threat - most people know already that he's a lazy hack - and a few jokes listed shouldn't impact an individual comedian (unless they all belong to the same one).

Chegwin isn't a threat. That's why he still has a massive fanbase motivated enough to become a mob on his behalf. A mob who quite likely haven't heard of Milton Jones or seen a full Lee Mack show. Using their gags without credit has a knock on effect, their jokes can then be repeated and retweeted to potentially millions of people. Some of whom will see either comic and think they're a waste of time after having heard their material already when they're 2 of the best traditional comedians around.

And also - http://boingboing.net/2010/06/16/dastardly-italian-jo.html

What more can I say: For me, a string of gags isn't as impressive as a densely packed "routine" (I cant think of a more appropriote word, sorry). I've acknowledged there are a few exceptions, but even then I prefer something more substantial.

And that's a fair opinion to have. Certainly better put than being dismissive of that style of material as you were in your initial posts.

Jokes being passed on is the way of the internet, sadly. No point fighting it, at least not if its only a few jokes per comedian. I just think its telling that it was Keith Chegwin they've pulled up for this, rather than a mainstream comedian, or "normal person". The number of followers is irrelevent. Joke emails get sent to hundreds of people certainly. Websites full of jokes are read by hundreds.

Well in this case, he's taking professional comics material and as I've explained, the number of followers ARE relevent. Keith Chegwin is a professional entertainer and should at least KNOW BETTER than to react like the hard done by victim when questioned by fellow entertainers. After all, wouldn't that neatly fit your world view of celebs pretending to be mates?

Comedians survive by being a good act, not just because of individual jokes. 

Two words: Jack Whitehall.

[eluc55]

above post

Okay, I've said my piece. I honestly don't think I can be any clearer, and I really think I'd be repeating myself if I answered your post, so this is where I get off for now. Essentially my points still stand, and although I should probably repeat it all again to clarify exactly why, I really cant find it in me to do this all again; probably bad form, but this has ceased be be enjoyable.

If you want to consider this me "running away" or "not backing up my argument" so be it. I think of it as not wanting to repeat myself, or rise to your increasingly sacastic and rude posts, especially as your now quoting me out of context and completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding my arguments. By now people will know where we stand, and why.

You don't get to control how the discussion continues I'm afraid.

No, of course I don't. But I am within my rights to politely ask you to keep the discussion civil, and failing that, to choose not to continue arguing with you.

EDIT: sorry, I really dislike leaving it like this, but I can see this dragging on forever. I just feel that I've already answered so many of those points, or that you've not read my posts properly.

Certain lines like:

Agreed all of that has been covered before. But how does it apply to this situation? Is it ok because other comics are guilty now?

suggest you're actually looking for an argument, as it was you that asked what other comedians had acted wierdly on twitter, and when I then list some, you misrepresent why I mentioned them in the first place. I just can't be bothered continuing this.

[jaydee81]

Wow, since when was I supposed to feel any sympathy for Lee Mack?

[Artemis]

Anything stated on here is opinion.

Eurgh. Look at you, coming on here with these sweeping generalisations about things stated on here.

[her?]

It looks like Cheggers has finally confessed to being a joke thief. Sort of. He was originally quite certain of his innocence -  "I write my own gags here on Twitter". Then he seemed to get a little nervous - "Most of the gags are my own & some I remember from old". And now it's - "I'l be honest I couldn't tell who's gag I post here - they're just pub jokes". I'll take that as an admission of guilt.

Unfortunately he's also "named and shamed" the comedians who are "bullying" him and they've now received all sorts of abuse from Chegwin fans. What a lovely thing to do. Oh, and he's blocked me for simply asking which jokes are his own. I will not be renewing my membership to the Cheggers fanclub this year.

[Lyndon]

I think the reason I like his actions is because he's treating Twitter with the respect it deserves.

[koeman]

Oh, and he's blocked me for simply asking which jokes are his own. I will not be renewing my membership to the Cheggers fanclub this year.

Yeah, whatever you think of the comedians involved, it's difficult to argue against the fact that Cheggers has shown himself to be a complete nobhead with his reaction to a rather polite initial tweet. My favourite thing to come out of the whole affair is LMC's tweet that Cheggersgate is his favourite part of London.

[rudi]

Steve Punt just followed a weak one-liner on The Now Show (I know, I know, I was washing up) with "Cheggers can have that one".

[Tiny Poster]

Steve Punt just followed a weak one-liner on The Now Show (I know, I know, I was washing up) with "Cheggers can have that one".

Everyone on Twitter's already done that joke.

[rudi]

Well yeah, but it happened on Twitter, so....

[Madison]

Rhys Thomas seems to have closed his Twitter account after some kind of joke-stealing-gate. Did anyone follow it?

[koeman]

There's a little bit of info about it here:

http://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24682.msg1317607.html#msg1317607