Author Topic: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"  (Read 7256 times)

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #60 on: July 23, 2010, 08:12:12 PM »
I really want to see Five Monkies.

biggytitbo

  • WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAM JAFFA CAKES ASSWIPE
    • theunredacted
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2010, 08:14:24 PM »
6 monkeys was better, imho.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2010, 08:16:58 PM »
I always confuse Donnie Brasco with the brass polishing product Brasso.
You're crazy, man.

Vanilla Sky is a great little film... But I don't get how its confusing. There's even a guy who pops up later on in the film to explain what's happening.
Same as in Silent Hill and even if there weren't, I don't see what's to get so confused about. If you just accept that the characters are in some sort of purgatory then there's nothing much to be confused by.

Zero Gravitas

  • Cloven hoof strap-on?
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2010, 08:19:06 PM »
6 monkeys was better, imho.

4 monkees was far superior.


Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • You Go Careful There Now My Love
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2010, 08:24:07 PM »
I often find acceptance of events can allow you to appreciate a film just as much as understanding.

A lot of 'confusing' films are asking you to take a leap of faith. Once you have taken that leap and accepted the events as they unfold, you become more vulnerable and susceptible. I think this is why certain directors almost insist on trying to wrong-foot you. I think it is a generally insecure move by a director, such a grasping attempt to gain the upper hand.

It doesn't stop me enjoying the films though.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2010, 11:13:56 PM »
In other matters, I didn't find Mulholland Drive all the perplexing, because it's more or less the same plot as Lost Highway.

Really? Because I think I 'get' Mulholland Drive, whereas I'm still kind of, err, lost, with Lost Highway. I have watched Mulholland Drive a couple of times though, whereas I've only seen Lost Highway once. I know they both have dual personalities going on, but that happens in a lot of Lynch's work. I don't think Lost Highway is meant to be solved in the same way Mulholland Drive is though.

Johnny Townmouse

  • Member
  • **
  • The cha-cha boogies of Edmundo Ros
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2010, 06:08:57 PM »
Same as in Silent Hill and even if there weren't, I don't see what's to get so confused about. If you just accept that the characters are in some sort of purgatory then there's nothing much to be confused by.

This is precisely the reason that I find audience member's confusion about Jacob's Ladder so irritating.

Dark Sky

  • Hallo you
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2010, 06:51:29 PM »
I haven't seen it myself but a friend told me he went to a screening of 'Silent Hill' and didn't have a clue what was going on. He said he was starting to feel a bit thick because it was an adaptation of a computer game and surely to god it can't be that much of a headscratcher. Then suddenly a bloke sat near the front stood up, turned round and said to the whole cinema "Sorry, everyone. Does anyone know what the hell's going on?" to which everyone unanimously replied "No!" and then all decided to leave the cinema and do something else. I like to think that maybe some people went to the pub next door, got talking and a relationship was formed that day, all because 'Silent Hill' is a confusing pile of shit.

Silent Hill is bizarre because although the storyline is completely different to the original computer game (in fact, it's almost the opposite story), it's told in such an obtuse way that most Silent Hill fans think that it's the same story.

I wrote an essay on the movie, actually.  For fun.  When it came out on DVD I watched it five times in as many days with a notepad and pen and worked the whole thing out as much as i could.

It's actually fiendishly clever and extremely well constructed.

Sadly that doesn't save it from pissing over the games and being an incredibly dull film.

(More on topic...  Vanilla Sky seems to be generally hated by people because they went to see it thinking it was going to be a romantic thriller starring Tom Cruise, and instead it was a strange, psychological thriller with a hardcore science fiction twist at the end.  It wrong foots them, they hate that, bad reviews.  I love it, though, it's one of the few almost shot-for-shot Hollywood remakes I prefer to the original.  Mullholland Drive makes perfect sense to me now, sadly, and has lost some of its wonder.  INLAND EMPIRE is still wonderfully oblique...god I love that film so much.)

DJ Solid Snail

  • Make it quick, Fitzgerald
    • YouTube
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2010, 07:14:48 PM »
I think Lynch's inclusions of 'clues' to solve the Mulholland Dr. 'mystery' on the DVD was a sly joke, really. I mean, given that, what is it, the first 90 minutes (?) was a TV pilot... Lynch would've no doubt approached this new TV show the same way he did Twin Peaks - start off on a series of images he liked, with a very loose framework in mind, then let the thing evolve organically as it went on. The image comes first, and there's isn't always some intellectual justification to it. Have you never seen the man interviewed? It's about feeling. *wiggles fingers* To think there's some all-encompassing answer that incorporates every bit of weirdness in the film is quite silly, though it is of course fun to speculate.

Mullholland Drive makes perfect sense to me now, sadly, and has lost some of its wonder.
Oh right, it does? Would you mind summarising?

Oh and you've sent me that Silent Hill essay before but I forgot to read it then lost it. Can I have it again?

I hated that Silent Hill felt it absolutely had to change the protagonist in order to conform to the well-worn horror cliché* of mother-loses-daughter, as if to imply that if a Dad lost his kid he'd probably shrug and give up, and perhaps even be delighted to be liberated of the responsibility.

*I think it is. It is, isn't it?

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2010, 07:43:26 PM »
I'd be interested in reading your essay, too, Dark Sky.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2010, 08:41:42 PM »
I'd be interested in your theory on Mulholland Drive, Dark Sky.... do you think parts of it were a dream? Because they weren't...

Little Hoover

  • It's totally boss, man.
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2010, 08:42:17 PM »
Me too, DS although I'd probably put it to one side and then forget to read it.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2010, 08:52:05 PM »
.... do you think parts of it were a dream? Because they weren't...

Or they were, if you want them to be.

I mean, yeah, I prefer the ghost theory too, but that doesn't mean it is the definitive answer. I'm sure Lynch himself doesn't have a definitive answer, he just throws images he likes out there, then finds a way to loosely tie them together based on themes and ideas.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2010, 09:46:37 PM »
Or they were, if you want them to be.

Only if you're happy to have a several key-looking moments dangling in the wind without any explanation. The 'death trip' explanation at least leaves nothing unresolved.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2010, 10:19:53 PM »
Only if you're happy to have a several key-looking moments dangling in the wind without any explanation. The 'death trip' explanation at least leaves nothing unresolved.

That explanation still leaves stuff unresolved, or at least has parts where you just have to assume that is what is happening, but like with every other explanation, there is no way of knowing if that was the true intention. The homeless woman/man/creature for example is still unresolved.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2010, 10:45:24 PM »
That explanation still leaves stuff unresolved, or at least has parts where you just have to assume that is what is happening, but like with every other explanation, there is no way of knowing if that was the true intention.

DAMMIT, JA'MOKE, DON'T TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME!!!

Quote
The homeless woman/man/creature for example is still unresolved.

Not at all, as it happens. The homeless woman/man/creature - so the theory goes - is actually Diane. It's Diane's rotting corpse. That character is played by a woman, which adds credence to the theory. The dream theory certainly can't account for it, and lets Lynch off the hook too easily. How do you explain the Adam subplot, the hit-man and Mr. Roque's studio and the telephone calls if it's all a dream? It doesn't matter, right? It's all a dream! Nah. That's too easy and too obvious. When I first watched it, and after having a good think about it, I went on the net to find out what other people thought of it and nearly all of them bought into the dream cop-out, but it didn't sit right with me.

To me, this is the best (if lengthiest) explanation of Mulholland Drive I have come across to date and it's best read directly after a viewing: http://www.sendspace.com/file/1qxn4n

Santa's Boyfriend

  • 'S all in the game, yo
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2010, 10:53:57 PM »
Not at all, as it happens. The homeless woman/man/creature - so the theory goes - is actually Kaiser Soze.

Fixed

DJ Solid Snail

  • Make it quick, Fitzgerald
    • YouTube
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2010, 11:26:39 PM »
But...but...almost all of it's a TV pilot. Lynch shot new footage to turn it into a singular piece, but even still, there's going to be plenty in there that has no relevance to the rest of it, because those subplots weren't given the chance to develop into whatever they were going to be. You can invent your own reasoning for all those unrelated bits in the first 90 mins or so, such as the crazy homeless lady, but that doesn't mean they were intended. They all almost certainly were not.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2010, 11:44:35 PM »
Not at all, as it happens. The homeless woman/man/creature - so the theory goes - is actually Diane. It's Diane's rotting corpse. That character is played by a woman, which adds credence to the theory.

But they find Diane's corpse in her apartment. Why is her rotting corpse suddenly wandering around as a homeless person?

Quote
The dream theory certainly can't account for it, and lets Lynch off the hook too easily. How do you explain the Adam subplot, the hit-man and Mr. Roque's studio and the telephone calls if it's all a dream? It doesn't matter, right? It's all a dream! Nah. That's too easy and too obvious. When I first watched it, and after having a good think about it, I went on the net to find out what other people thought of it and nearly all of them bought into the dream cop-out, but it didn't sit right with me.

Oh I agree, I don't buy the dream theory (although I did for a while), and like you, I find the ghost theory works a lot better, but it still has its faults, and there is still no way of proving that was the true intention.

But...but...almost all of it's a TV pilot. Lynch shot new footage to turn it into a singular piece, but even still, there's going to be plenty in there that has no relevance to the rest of it, because those subplots weren't given the chance to develop into whatever they were going to be. You can invent your own reasoning for all those unrelated bits in the first 90 mins or so, such as the crazy homeless lady, but that doesn't mean they were intended. They all almost certainly were not.

What he said.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2010, 11:45:03 PM »
But...but...almost all of it's a TV pilot. Lynch shot new footage to turn it into a singular piece, but even still, there's going to be plenty in there that has no relevance to the rest of it, because those subplots weren't given the chance to develop into whatever they were going to be. You can invent your own reasoning for all those unrelated bits in the first 90 mins or so, such as the crazy homeless lady, but that doesn't mean they were intended. They all almost certainly were not.

That is true, but it's not difficult to take that original pilot and change the intentions behind specific parts of it. David Lynch is a very clever chap and I'm sure would have had no problem going over the pilot in detail and tying in certain aspects to the new footage he shot, in order to make it a complete film. I like the "death idea", but I actually think the main section of the film could also be a vision/dream she has as her brain is winding down from shooting herself (like a dream it only lasts a few minutes but seems much longer). My main reason for thinking this is that the beginning of the film is of her POV and the laboured breathing and fuzzy vision seems like how it might be if you had just shot yourself but it hadn't ended things straight away.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2010, 11:49:10 PM »
But they find Diane's corpse in her apartment. Why is her rotting corpse suddenly wandering around as a homeless person?

I like the idea of it being a rotting corpse, but I think it's Rita's, not Diane's. It's her guilt over arranging the killing manifesting itself.

Ja'moke

  • based on the novel Push by Sapphire
    • Inside Survivor
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2010, 12:45:09 PM »
I like the idea of it being a rotting corpse, but I think it's Rita's, not Diane's. It's her guilt over arranging the killing manifesting itself.

So, you're saying it is Diane imagining (dreaming or whatever) Rita's rotting corpse, because of the guilt she feels over arranging Rita's murder?

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2010, 02:12:00 PM »
Could be that, yes. I think it makes more sense than it being Diane's own corpse, anyway.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2010, 02:50:12 PM »
i am unsure of the distinction between the "dream" and "death/ghost" interpretations. is it simply that the former supposes that she wakes up after club silencio and the rest of the film is reality until the end and the latter assumes that club silencio signals her death and the rest of the film jumps back to before the dream and she never wakes up as the whole thing happens in the split-second before she dies?

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2010, 03:29:30 PM »
The 'afterlife' theory is neatly summised here although the link I posted above is a much fuller and more satisfying read, and goes into contrasts with actual claims of ghosts and their behaviours. All very interesting.

Dark Sky

  • Hallo you
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2010, 09:44:52 PM »
I can't be bothered reading anything anyone else has said in this thread on Mulholland Drive because you're all a bunch of weirdo losers, BUT obviously the overriding sense of Mulholland Drive is..."IT'S A DREAM".

You see a "real" shot of a pillow looming towards you at the start of the film, and then you're into dream territory, with imagery and events and people inspired by the "reality" which you only get to see once the puzzle box is opened up.

There's all sorts of wonderful little linking imagery through the use of colours and repeated dialogue and it's all very lovely and very carefully crafted together, despite the fact that Lynch is king of the "no keep the props guy in shot, he can be the evil villain!" approach to filmmaking.

Dark Sky

  • Hallo you
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2010, 09:50:19 PM »
The 'afterlife' theory is neatly summised here

You see it's stuff like that which suddenly cleanses me of my previous thoughts about Mull Dr and means that next time I watch it it'll be an exciting, amazing film again, rather than a film I feel I unpicked years ago and am bored with because I haven't had my theories questioned.

So thanks for that.

DJ Solid Snail

  • Make it quick, Fitzgerald
    • YouTube
Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2010, 10:14:14 PM »
Oi - where's your essay?

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2010, 12:06:54 AM »
You imagined it.

Re: Vanilla Sky voted 'Most Confusing Movie Eva!1"
« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2010, 01:59:30 AM »
 Mulholland Drive makes perfect sense. Yes, it was shot as a pilot, but the last 30 minutes, post hot lesbian action, recasts the action of the original pilot to mean something different at least in terms of the main character, and this is all explained clearly. Which is wonderful.

  I wrote an essay about Lost Highway once and had a look at the script and the film makes a lot of sense to me, especially with the backdrop of the O.J. Simpson case going on around that time - Lynch having a celebrity murderer on the brain which certainly helps explain a few things [and makes Robert Blake's casting frighteningly prescient].

   Inland Empire didn't work for me at all. It's an overlong mess. Lynch's films need to be shot well and look good for their ideas to have any impact. This was ugly, ugly, ugly, shot on digital video and unpleasant to watch, and it went on for ages. The story kept meandering on when much less would have worked much better.

   Fire Walk With Me is terrific.