Darren Aronofsky’s Black Swan

[wasp_f15ting]

I just watched it. I am not sure what Aronofsky was trying to get at. For fans of Portman there is plenty of titillating fingering and ass shots. However as a psychological thriller I think it fails. The whole thing of Nina's character

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split

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has been done again and again.. in games (Condemned) anime (Perfect blue) and other films. I think yet again a film rises to critical acclaim due to mild sexual titillation shot in a very provocative way. I just didn't get any depth from Nina, the whole pervy ballet master angle was left undisclosed too.

A good watch, but unless you really want to see Portman's bum on the big screen wait till it hits Bluray.

[Ja'moke]

It is a fair point that the whole

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split/dual personality

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theme has been covered many times, and arguably its been done better, namely in David Lynch's work. But I thought Black Swan played it very well against the striving for perfection in 'art', and Portman's portrayal of a woman trying to balance her true self and her 'character' was excellent. Mila Kunis was very good too, that's the first I've seen her in a serious role.

[Big Jack McBastard]

'Darren Aronofsky's Let's Leer at, Grope, Paw and Drug Natalie Portman and have Mila Kunis Gobble Her Muffin'. more like!

What a romping good show! That's my Best Film nomination for the new decade sorted, I could masturbate furiously over watch that 'till my glans eyes bled.

I've entertained less ambitious fantasies about Natalie Portman than displayed therein and that's saying something [nb]too much wanking[/nb], it's been too long since a normal flick crammed such thoughts into my head, this is why we need cinema right here ladies and gents.

In a nutshell "thought" provoking.

Sans penis review follows:

It's pretty good, if as bit odd, actually liked the ending and the last act loopyness. I watched Inception just before-hand and this feels like it's been written over it in a DVD+/-RW-stylee in my head. Neither of them pissed me off or made me cry "Horseshit!"at any point, which is high praise round these parts.

A decent evening for Hollywood on my TV, who'da thunk it?

[vrailaine]

Well, I'm not the greatest critic of films, but I felt the disturbing scenes weren't anywhere near gruesome enough, the sex scenes weren't anywhere near graphic enough and so on, should've been an NC-17 film through and through to work right, for me anyway ...even if they had to dropp Portman, who was good and looking lovely throughout and all. This old school style has to make you(meaning me) feel properly sick in the stomach to connect with it and it always felt like it was holding back, which I'm sure was at least somewhat influenced by the film board rating.

Still pretty good though, dance scenes were very well done and all I thought, cast worked well, yeah.

I was always gonna be underwhelmed by this though.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I was fascinated by it, but not involved with it. It's a curious film, quite beautiful to watch at times, but almost overtly sincere. I went in knowing very little about it, but soon guessed exactly what the outcome would be, and that the film would be as bombastic and overblown as ballet can sometimes be. I've concerns over how the

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breakdown

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was handled too, I was okay with everything until

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the wall of talking paintings

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, I don't doubt that people have experienced such things but it felt too ridiculous and made me burst out laughing. And the other big problem is that I didn't care enough for Portman's character, so whilst I was entranced by the gradual transformation, I didn't care that the film

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ended the way it did

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.

Despite all that I'm certainly glad that I've seen it, and would recommend it to others. But I'd tell them not to expect it to live up to the hype, perhaps.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Wonderful film. Brilliant performances all round, a wonderful sense of how it is to be mentally ill (I don't think it's a split personality film like others have said, she is just projecting images of people in her life onto situations), no extraneous bits, terrific pacing, great music. It's also very frightening at times, there were a couple of bits that made me jump.

Oh, and Mila Kunis eating Portman's fur burger was an added bonus.

[Vitalstatistix]

I don't usually go for overblown and/or melodramatic films, but this one really had me and the missus gripped from start to finish.

Strange and scary, tightly plotted and wonderfully acted (Portman really puts in *puts film critic hat on* a tour de force).

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it was pretty obvious early on how it was going to end when it became clear it would follow Swan Lake's narrative, but it was carried out really interestingly and tensely, so I don't see this as a flaw.

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An outrageous film which just shouldn't be as fantastic as it is.

[Hornet]

Aranofsky wanted this and The Wrestler, to be seen as partners so to speak.  I thoroughly enjoyed both films and found them equally disturbing.  In some ways it was ridiculously over the top and yet I never found my attention wandering nor questioning where it was going.  And the Oscar for Best Actress should go to.........

[thugler]

Didn't get it really, well made but really silly and ridiculous at times, portman's performance lacks subtlety too, just endless miserable face in every scene. But I loved the wrestler. I can see why it's done well, just don't think it's for me.

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

Thought it was a bit underwhelming tbh, and I loved The Wrestler. Just wasn't mad/horrific/disturbing enough. It's Suspiria for arthouse pussies who wouldn't dare watch Suspiria.

That said, wouldn't argue if Portman were to win Best Actress Oscar. Or Cassell Best Supporting Actor? Two very good performances there, despite the disappointing-ness of the actual movie.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Just wasn't mad/horrific/disturbing enough.

Not even the bit where she peels the skin off her finger? I don't think I've ever squirmed so much

[Ghost of Troubled Joe]

Not even the bit where she peels the skin off her finger? I don't think I've ever squirmed so much

Christ have you not watched any David Cronenberg film, ever? Or even Aronofsky's own Pi or Requiem for a Dream? The razor blade moments in The Wrestler made me squirm more.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Yeah I've seen all those. Something about skin peeling off a finger makes me cringe though

[Neil]

EDIT:  This contains spoilers.

Just back from seeing this with Trench, and we both found it to be one of the most intensely thrilling cinematic experiences we've ever had.  Just stunning. 

I guessed in the first minute or two that it was going to be about transformation, and that wings would sprout, which is a bit trite, really - but entirely appropriate, given what the theme of the ballet turned out to be.  This suspicion was confirmed, by briefly seeing the girl with the tattoos on her back in the next scene.  I leant over to mention this to trench, then reprimanded myself; considering I sit with my headphones on, looking at my phone when the coming attractions are coming up (control freak), this was a bit rude.

So I could see where it was going, and a precis for Swan Lake was given, which I also knew was priming us, so I sat back to see if I could still enjoy the ride.  I did indeed.  It was astonishing.  There were many moments where I did little mini fist-punches, willing her on to break free.  These little acts of rebellion really excited me.

It's a movie I was able to engage with immediately, as I also have an obsession with perfection, and was quite repressed in the past, and also have control freak tendencies.  We're still putting a couple of bits together, but had a good natter about it in the pub after.  It's all about her Mum controlling her, resenting her, feeling jealous of her, for taking her chance away.  Nina knows the Mother never had a chance anyway, it seems, and so is using her daughter to live through vicariously, but is terrified she will actually succeed, even though part of her wants this to happen - the film has that same kind of duality quite often.  She tries to sabotage her, by making her cake, trying to guilt-trip her into eating a massive slice, then finally adding more guilt to Nina (who's had a life-time of it), by pretty much force-feeding her, with a fingerful of the stuff.  Nina is being sick partly to wrest back some control in her life - we see her trying to be sick with nothing in her stomach at one point, she smiles at having lost weight, even though she is clearly slim enough for ballet as is.  She is taking control of one of the few things she can actually manage to do on her own, to over-compensate for a lack of control everywhere else.  My experience is that this stems from OCD, but it's not limited to it.  Nina is OCD, though, that's one of her problems.

The Mum lets her sleep in, too.  She removes the door handle after Nina says she's leaving, right?  Either way, what an unbelievably controlling thing to do. 

Nina's Mum has made her terrified of sex.  She wants to keep her as her tiny little girl, seemingly going so far as to carry out tasks such as cutting her nails for her.  This seems to be why she starts 'bleeding' from them, trying to escape?  Rebelling?  She is disgusted by her own sexuality, which much of the film hinges around.  She needs to lose control, so she can take control, but her Mum is always there, watching her, or so she feels.  Her Mum is there, internally nagging her every step of the way, loading her up with guilt, neuroses and shame.

Quite an American Werewolf In London influence, aye?  God, every muscle in my body was clenched through that whole transformation scene, but my jaw was flapping in the breeze.  The girl beside me in the cinema jumped about half a dozen times, through the whole film.  The soundtrack was electric, with the sinister orchestral stabs at the start immediately setting the tone. 

Lovely details, such as the ballet ring-tone and alarm, and the swan on the bath tiles.  And the dappled, swan skin thrilled me when it first appeared.  Also, the dancing transformation was extraordinary - you could see it happening, yet it was still imperceptible. 

So I need to learn more about the ballets, but the part is her love in this.  I think she does have a crush on the teacher, (or maybe not, and just sees him as a father figure), but doesn't understand love.  Her love, that she is going to lose as with the ballet that is being echoed, is the part itself.  She needs to become imperfect, to become perfect, like the older ballerina, who she aspires to be like - this is her role model, which she needs, because she's never been able to use her Mum as one.  When do we think she stabbed herself?  I must see this again, and in the cinema for the full effect, but my guess is that she did it when ascending the stairs, so she would be ready to lose herself in the moment, without hesitation. 

What was interesting about the ballet director, was that it seemed he wasn't interested in her sexually, at all.  He just wanted her to break free, to become passionate, yet there was all this innuendo.  He started to seduce her only to show that he could, and to inform her attitude and approach, as he knew she was a virgin.  When she kisses him, I did another fist pump.  Easy now.  I guess perhaps the old man on the train wasn't there (although he could well have been), and he was just a representation of what sex looks like to her - urgh and creepy.  She's so neurotically intimidated by it, that she sees it as being... violent.  It is associated with a lack of control so intense, it could make her world fall off its axis.  So she resists...but she really, really wants that part, and is terrified it's going to be snatched from her.

She had to discover her own sexuality, before she could even think about sharing it, and she had to integrate both sides of her personality.  The effort, stress and guilt destroyed her. 

Amazing film. 

[El Unicornio, mang]

One thing which was briefly touched on in the film, but not spelled out explicitly, was that

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her Mum was sexually abusing her. The scene where she is at her bedroom door, in her night clothes saying "I'm ready for you now" reminded me of a similar scene in No Child of Mine, where the mentally unstable mother gets her daughter to perform cunnilingus on her. (there is also apparently a scene like this in Precious) In that film it's shown in fairly graphic detail, but in this it is a sex scene with Mila Kunis, and I'm wondering if it is actually her mother she is having sex with, but is projecting the image of someone else onto her so she can deal with it. It would certainly help to explain her mental instability and fear of sex

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I don't know, I might be reading too much into it though.

I too, have gained a bit of an interest in ballet after seeing this, something I never thought I would say.

[Ja'moke]

Nice write-up there, Neil.

I really do need to see this at the cinema, as I've only seen the screener. I think I may go tomorrow. I've read a theory online, that I'm not sure I fully buy in to, about Nina's mother perhaps sexually abusing her? Let me see if I can find a link...

http://www.slashfilm.com/nina-mom-black-swan-paranoid-schizophrenia/#more-95812

I'd definitely need to watch again to see if that theory holds up in any way, as of now, I don't quite see it. I'd go with Neil's interpretation, of Nina's mother being controlling, and projecting her faults and failures on to Nina. I thought Barbara Hershey was fantastic as the mother, I was quite surprised she didn't pick up a Best Supporting Actress nomination, same with Mila Kunis.

EDIT: El beat me to it. Maybe there is weight to that theory.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Jinx!

[Neil]

I didn't/don't get that sense at all, but it's an interesting theory.  Reading that, things like Nina being undressed by her Mother fits in with what I was saying - she controls and infantalises her.  She doesn't want her to grow up.  She resents her for supposedly taking away her chance.  Nina hasn't had time to grow up, anyway, because her life has been ballet.  It's her only obsession, and her only love.  Her mother just strikes me as the typical stereotype of a 'mother of a showbiz kid', who works their kids incredibly hard; however, that it also communicates this fear and jealousy and sabotage from the mother is fantastic. 

Trench made an interesting point about there being no male influence, and there's only that passing reference to her father, when it becomes clear that sex is an enormous source of guilt and shame for Nina.  I mean, her Mum points out she's an accident, too, and she will doubtless also be associating sex with failure, now I come to think of it.  'If I start kissing boys, will I get knocked up and fail at ballet, like my Mum?'  All her fantasies are based round females, and I've already mentioned the old fellow on the tube - I think she's lesbian, which is another potential source of sexual shame and anguish, but I will have to pay more attention to the male relationships in the film next time.[nb]How does she react to the "hot for teacher" Van Halen referencing?  Can't remember - wasn't it just childish 'shuttup' coyness, rather than disgust?[/nb]  There is that one bit in the club, where she sees how uninterested one of the guys is in ballet, so how does she relate to him, when that's all she knows?  The other one feigns an interest, while snatching glances at her tits. 

How can the mother see her scars, I was wondering earlier?  Because she caused them, and is perpetuating them by continuing to infantalise her - but I'm not convinced it's a case of sexual abuse. 

By the way, please do go and see this in the cinema, and don't download it, if you haven't already.  I will definitely be going to see it in the cinema again myself, to fill in some details I will have missed.  My mind didn't wander much through this one!  Utterly compelling and shocking - this is one of the reasons I go into films and stuff with as little fore-knowledge as possible.  I'm a control freak, and the son of one, you see... :-)

[Zero Gravitas]

I don't see any part of the narrative being as understated as the molestation indicators would have to be, it demonstrates great turns in mirroring and inversion, but subtlety of that level I'd be slow to accuse it of.

[Neil]

The cake moment really is one of the best examples of the dynamic they have.

'Congratulations, Nina, you're going to be a success!  I knew you could...let's have some cake to celebrate.'
'It'll make me fat, and I won't be a success.'
'Eat the cake, here's a massive fucking slice.'
'NO!  I'm starting to make my own decisions, and threatening to escape from your control.'
(My memory gets a little hazy here)
'Fine!  I'll fucking bin it then, or threaten to anyway, in order to emotionally manipulate you into eating it...'
'Don't do that, ok, I'll bend to your will, even though it's going to make me seriously shameful and guilty, and you are making me potentially ruin my lifetime dream.. a dream you fucking bred me into, anyway.'
'Good girl, I am in control, and I'm virtually force-feeding you off my finger.  Next time, I'll grab a spoon, and make plane noises.'

Aaah, another thought, not only does the Mother have unrealistic memories about her own past status as a ballet dancer, and she doesn't want Nina to top them, she also fears her baby becoming a star, and leaving home, I'm sure.  Think I already said that with regards the door handle, but hadn't tied it in with the rest.  God, think I'll have to go see this again on Tuesday I think, so much in there still to unpick.

[rudi]

Wow. I watched it and just got annoyed at how stupid the makers thought us watchers were. The King's Speech wins over this in that it KNOWS it's basically English Tom Hanks vs "The Man".

Christ, I've watched the "big two" back to back and I'm feeling nothing but queezy.

And I THINK I'm usually not such a boring snob; I love a good film, but the big two felt like a fart in the face...

[thugler]

Yeah I think the oscar contender films are all quite weak this year.

[SavageHedgehog]

Still better than last year though.

They picked a bad era to go up by 50% didn't they?

[mjwilson]

Winter's Bone was terrific (and I haven't seen True Grit yet).

[El Unicornio, mang]

Have to disagree, I think this year's list is full of great films. Inception, Toy Story 3, Winter's Bone, Black Swan, 127 Hours, Social Network, all good with some excellent lead performances (Jennifer Lawrence in Winter's Bone being the standout for me). Haven't seen the other 4 but have heard good things

[thugler]

Have to disagree, I think this year's list is full of great films. Inception, Toy Story 3, Winter's Bone, Black Swan, 127 Hours, Social Network, all good with some excellent lead performances (Jennifer Lawrence in Winter's Bone being the standout for me). Haven't seen the other 4 but have heard good things

Haven't seen true grit or winters bone yet. But out of the ones I've seen:

Inception, Black Swan, 127 hours, social network, kings speech, and the fighter. Were all a bit underwhelming, and some of them are very flawed.

Toy story 3 was great mind.

[pk1yen]

Really, really enjoyed this -- but it felt like I was being force-fed symbolism at times. Maybe I just spent too long analysing the white/black stuff in LOST - but white/black stuff and mirror motifs have started to grate on me a bit.

Also, there were several bits that just made me laugh (which probably wasn't the intended response) - the wanking "oh, shit, my mum's there!" bit, as well as the "WELL FINE I'LL THROW THE CAKE AWAY THEN AND SULK" bit.

It trod a fine line between intense and obvious.

Really good, though. But my friend's made me watch this instead of Synecdoche, New York (my favourite film ever) - so I was never going to be completely complaint-free.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Really, really enjoyed this -- but it felt like I was being force-fed symbolism at times. Maybe I just spent too long analysing the white/black stuff in LOST - but white/black stuff and mirror motifs have started to grate on me a bit.

Also, there were several bits that just made me laugh (which probably wasn't the intended response) - the wanking "oh, shit, my mum's there!" bit, as well as the "WELL FINE I'LL THROW THE CAKE AWAY THEN AND SULK" bit.

It trod a fine line between intense and obvious.

That's pretty much what I was going to say.

[Paaaaul]

It trod a fine line between intense and obvious.

What do you mean by 'obvious'?

[thugler]

What do you mean by 'obvious'?

Portman's 'I AM MISERABLE AND OBVIOUSLY MENTALLY UNSTABLE' acting for the entire film, theres no subtlety, it doesn't really develop, it's there from the very start so there's no sense of her descending into madness, she's mad for the whole thing. Also, noone seems to notice her ridiculously miserable face and perhaps ask her if she's alright.