Author Topic: Bioshock Infinite  (Read 6854 times)

Borboski

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »
I thought this was pretty underwhelming in the end.  The storyline was nothing to write home about - and the game play was basically like every other FPS.  Surprised it got such good reviews.  I did complete it, at least, which is rare for me these days.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2013, 04:31:10 PM »
First and last half hour were dreamy, all the shooting in the middle was fucking gash. That said, I have quite intense fond memories of the game world, it's uses an addictively beautiful palette.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2013, 07:59:27 PM »
I was really excited about getting this when it was announced. Didn't buy it when it came out because I was busy and now I don't think I'll bother judging by all of your reviews. :(

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2013, 09:50:26 AM »
It's actually brilliant and you should definitely play it.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2013, 10:00:19 AM »
It's actually brilliant and you should definitely play it.

Yeah, I agree. I really, really like it. It's not perfect but it's still brilliant and worth a go.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2013, 12:53:18 PM »
Despite my criticisms of the gameplay, I'd still definitely recommend it. It's a unique and beautiful world, and I quite want to replay it. It just can't hide a certain lack of confidence in what it could have been, resulting in excessive arena shooting shit and probably a harsher assessment than I would have given without such a staggering opening.

falafel

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2013, 11:03:09 PM »
Worth playing with cheats then?

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2013, 12:20:48 AM »
What? No! Play it properly, play it on easy if you don't think you've very good at FPS' I played it on normal with relatively little trouble and if you die, you just lose money, you won't have to repeat anything because the people you killed stay dead.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2013, 12:48:23 PM »
Looks like I will be getting it then, after Far Cry 3[nb]which I know isn't shit[/nb].

Subtle Mocking

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2013, 11:39:56 PM »
So Gamespot went and re-reviewed the game. The score is quite different to what it was before: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/bioshock-infinite-a-fan-scorned/1900-6415464/

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2013, 11:58:10 PM »
So Gamespot went and re-reviewed the game. The score is quite different to what it was before: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/bioshock-infinite-a-fan-scorned/1900-6415464/

That's bloody fascinating that they did that. I agree with the review but score itself feels far more like it's a reaction to the critical acclaim the game grabbed instead of the game itself, and is trying to make a punitive statement. I mean the whole review feels like that, and I agree with basically all the points and I feel the words do back it up but I find it interesting that the person actually made it into a review instead of a retrospective criticism.

All said and done, I played it on hard on PC and I feel like it's a point that a lot of criticism pave over. The combat in the game is actually incredibly unique and fun, although the wide open spaces make it into an old fashioned Shooter arena often. And the sheer amount of times it forces you into it with billions of guys gets incredibly tiresome very fast and it SHOULD be criticised.

I've got positive feelings about the new DLC coming out. It's all been written and created post Bioshock Infinite release, Ken Levine has definitely seen the criticisms so it's going to be sink or swim time with this. The first one's set up like a Film Noir, with Booker as a detective in Pre-Fall Rapture. They've not shown any combat for it, only a world filled with civilians and life, much like the first 45 minutes of Infinite, which was the greatest part and it's biggest downfall, as it set up something it wasn't planning on continuing. I'm hoping there's less combat encounters, and when there is, they'll be of a smaller scale and therefore more meaningful, much like an actual Film Noir.
Probably could be shit though. I'm mixed about it. The second one story DLC has been described as a straight up survival horror where you play as Elizabeth, and by the sounds of it, won't even hold a gun, so I've got far higher hopes for that one.

Anyway, that's a good review, albeit I feel the motives come across as more punitive than it should be. Feels like he's trying to take it down a peg or two responding to the hype instead of going in without any bias and responding to the game itself. DESPITE the fact that his criticisms are accurate and I agree with him. I'm glad they did it though. It's ballsy and I think people should be challenged on these things. Criticisms like these should be addressed, and it means that Levine and other game directors will create more cohesive experiences from now on. You should always be challenging yourself to do better.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2013, 12:20:47 AM »
For reference, the same reviewer gave Beyond: Two Souls 9/10. I know I've not played (watched) the game so I can't really say anything but both reviews are very tedious to read to me. They're written like he's explaining the game to someone who's never heard of video games before.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2013, 12:31:03 AM by Thursday »

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2013, 02:33:07 AM »
I started playing this game for the first time ever last week. Luckily, I'd avoided the reviews, most of the pre-release hype and not read this thread because I don't want to spoil anything for myself... but since it's just been bumped...

Holy shit! What an IN-CREDIBLE game. Quite possibly one of the few games I'd say was close to perfect; everything from gameplay, story, characters, and god, those visuals; like a beautiful animated film. I'm playing on a PC through my HD TV and it looks out of this world. I have literally never seen a game look better than this. The sheer level of detail, the design work, the level of immersion and the fact that there doesn't feel like any filler whatsoever, just superb visual set piece after set piece - I'm in awe of the game design.

Even the way they relay the story seems totally beyond any its contemporaries, with each area you visit becoming relevant to the story being unveiled - so the Hall of Heroes isn't just a cool setting, it's also where Booker's history is uncovered and Lady Comstock's role is explained. It's so much more interesting than dialogue heavy cut scenes, or worse, tedious expositional tomes or videos you have to collect to piece it all together. The environments and characters feel real because you're constantly being fed information about there relevance to the larger world and story.

I must be well over half way though by now. But genuinely, I'd struggle to name five things that are wrong with this game.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2013, 02:45:05 AM »
I started playing this game for the first time ever last week. Luckily, I'd avoided the reviews, most of the pre-release hype and not read this thread because I don't want to spoil anything for myself... but since it's just been bumped...

Holy shit! What an IN-CREDIBLE game. Quite possibly one of the few games I'd say was close to perfect; everything from gameplay, story, characters, and god, those visuals; like a beautiful animated film. I'm playing on a PC through my HD TV and it looks out of this world. I have literally never seen a game look better than this. The sheer level of detail, the design work, the level of immersion and the fact that there doesn't feel like any filler whatsoever, just superb visual set piece after set piece - I'm in awe of the game design.

Even the way they relay the story seems totally beyond any its contemporaries, with each area you visit becoming relevant to the story being unveiled - so the Hall of Heroes isn't just a cool setting, it's also where Booker's history is uncovered and Lady Comstock's role is explained. It's so much more interesting than dialogue heavy cut scenes, or worse, tedious expositional tomes or videos you have to collect to piece it all together. The environments and characters feel real because you're constantly being fed information about there relevance to the larger world and story.

I must be well over half way though by now. But genuinely, I'd struggle to name five things that are wrong with this game.

Ah. It's really amazing that first time, isn't it! How'd you enjoy that first 45 minutes? That moment at the raffle is just such a gutpunch. Excellent.
Brilliant. I have my criticisms but I still loved the game, and it's great that you're enjoying it as much as you are. I'm actually playing through Bioshock 2 proper-...OH!


Coincidentally! Just going to interrupt my own thought there. Bioshock 2 on PC was a broken flawed mess. I picked it up cheap last year but it had Games for Windows Live and constantly fucked up. It also wiped my game...because Games for Windows Live.

But just this week, they've ripped out GFWL and now just runs on Steamworks, like a dream. Have to start fresh because no save game, but I couldn't actually remember anything that happened initially anyway. I think when I originally played it, I just wasn't in the mood for more Bioshock and wasn't really concentrating, but now after a considerable break, it felt like the perfect time to give it a proper go and actually take it in.

They released the DLC for free to people already owned it, and you can now buy it  on Steam.
It's called Minerva's Den and it was written and directed by Steve Gaynor, now one of the members of the Fullbright Company who went on to write and direct Gone Home. I've always heard great things, and it is an interesting little slice of Bioshock Storytelling. Overall, it was interesting but the plot and story wasn't hugely groundbreaking, memorable or subversive as I thought it was going to be, but it has some pretty clever twists and turns that are great if you're a Bioshock Fan. 

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2013, 03:25:38 AM »
Ah. It's really amazing that first time, isn't it! How'd you enjoy that first 45 minutes? That moment at the raffle is just such a gutpunch. Excellent.

Yeah, to be honest, pretty much everything up to and including the escape from Monument Island was just stunning. The lighthouse, the arrival at the church, the carnival, the raffle, the introduction to The Fireman, the House of Crows, The burning airship, and finally the whole sequence on Monument Island, especially the escape... there's not a duff note in there.

Actually, your comment about the raffle highlights something else the game handles really well: [spoiler]the racism[/spoiler]. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but for me, the gut punch in that raffle scene, wasn't the sudden explosion of violence... it was the sheer ugliness of seeing [spoiler]the mixed race couple[/spoiler] brought out alongside those [spoiler]horrible monkey caricatures[/spoiler], after such a quaint, idealised lead up. It's pitched perfectly - you get to see it the ugliest,  most dehumanising side, rather than flat, patronising dialogue or crass language and shows of violence. They aren't treated like people; they're treated like objects. And there are moments which are genuinely affecting, not because your exposed to something cruel, but because you're exposed to something so pointless. It's a very intelligent approach to the theme; certainly the best way I've ever seen it handled in a computer game. To expose the raw ugliness of it all.

 

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2013, 04:14:08 AM »
I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but for me, the gut punch in that raffle scene, wasn't the sudden explosion of violence... it was the sheer ugliness of seeing [Spoiler]the mixed race couple[/Spoiler] brought out alongside those [Spoiler]horrible monkey caricatures[/Spoiler], after such a quaint, idealised lead up.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's just such an idealic, Disneyland place. It's so beautiful and lush and everyone looks so nice and you just want to be there. And you're hearing people talk and there's a slight...edge...to what they're saying. But you just shrug it off as a sign of the times and then you're confronted with THAT. I think what you're talking about, COMBINED [Spoiler]with the violence. That blood really stands out, that crimson colour intruding on this golden Heaven as you hideously mangle the policemen. First actual blood you see.[/Spoiler] It really is excellent.

I think that was something I was slightly disappointed by, in that [Spoiler]the racism isn't actually a major theme of the game. It's more just set-dressing. The first half really sets up Colombia as this place to explore these thematics, but then it turns more into a story between Elizabeth and Booker.[/Spoiler] until [Spoiler]YOU FIND OUT THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY IN HEAVEN THE WHOLE TIME. No. Not really. That'd be a shitty and anti-climactic twist. I'm sorry.[/Spoiler]

But I was only slightly disappointed with that. I can't blame a game for not being about something it's not about. It's about Booker and Elizabeth. That's what the games about. That's why I was kind of hoping the DLC would leave those characters be and just a more Bioshock 1-esque view into Columbia a bit more, go into its religious and xenophobic themes a bit more, and explore the little stories. That's what I always love about the first one. It had all these little incidental characters and stories you'd find through the audio diaries that were just about fleshing out this world. The voxaphones in Infinite focus more on about 5 characters and elaborate on the main plot.

Again, these aren't criticisms of Infinite. It's not about Columbia. It's about Booker and Elizabeth. Bioshock 1's protagonist was an empty vessel and the only fleshed out character was Andrew Ryan, so that's why the focus was on the city. I'm just talking about what I would have liked more of, I guess.

Also, they've released a video of the first five minutes of Burial at Sea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZhiWKEZa9w

I was going to wait to avoid spoilers, but was trying to finish an essay and was looking for literally any way possible to procrastinate, so I caved.
Nothing happens in it whatsoever, really. But you get to see Rapture before it went to shit, and in that Infinite Engine, it's truly beautiful. If it wasn't for the fact I was playing through the old Bioshocks currently, I'd say it was spot on, but actually, those environments are notably huger than the claustrophobic feeling of the original.
I prefer this though. Looks absolutely gorgeous. Huge watery vistas to check out constantly it seems. 

Also, I love their cover for it.


Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2013, 10:32:34 AM »
Yeah I'm really liking the look of Burial at Sea, even though those environments look bigger, it's supposed to be a return to the more claustrophobic combat of the first two games. Although I still enjoyed the combat in Infinite, especially jumping about on the skyrails. The thing is, a lot of people think the combat in Infinite seems outdated, because you get locked into big arenas, and in a way it feels like it could be an FPS from the 90's from the way you just run about with no cover system, but I quite like that about it. The only problem is it can be difficult to spot the enemies against the backgrounds.

I actually think Bioshock 2 is very good as well,  for one thing, it's characters are more human, Ken Levine can come up with some great concepts, but he's not so good at writing people, every character you meet is an ideology with not much personality. All their dialogue and the audio diaries you find serve to reaffirm that ideology. Bioshock 2's characters have more nuances to them. Since the first game peaks a the end of act 2, and then the final third of the game is a bit dreary with a dreadful boss. Bioshock 2 understands the strengths and weaknesses of the game more, but in fairness it was built using the foundations of the first game. Also I think you might be aware of this Bored of Canada, but the Minerva's Den DLC was designed by the people who went on to make Gone Home, it's got quite a touching story and you should check it out.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2013, 04:07:30 PM »
They released the DLC for free to people already owned it, and you can now buy it  on Steam.
It's called Minerva's Den and it was written and directed by Steve Gaynor, now one of the members of the Fullbright Company who went on to write and direct Gone Home. I've always heard great things, and it is an interesting little slice of Bioshock Storytelling. Overall, it was interesting but the plot and story wasn't hugely groundbreaking, memorable or subversive as I thought it was going to be, but it has some pretty clever twists and turns that are great if you're a Bioshock Fan.

TOO LATE, HOTPLATE.

Seriously though, cheers. Appreciate the recommendation because clearly it was something I'd be interested in!

But yeah, totally agree about the combat in Infinite. I loved the more old school style of shooter it was. Far more exciting and allowed for dynamic and experimental situations than the dreary cover shooting that seems to populate basically every shootahn game about.

That said, the decision to only allow you to hold two guns was misguided. I appreciate the fact that it was very frantic and fun playing through on hard and having to grab literally anything I could off the ground by the skin of my teeth, but it also didn't feel designed around that system. You upgrade the weapons and it's expensive to do and it all encourages you to stick with the two you're most comfortable with. If I was able to carry them all, I'd experiment far more.

Bioshock 2 for example. I'm using everything I have constantly as they all have different positives or negatives, which I enjoy. All feels incredibly experimental and fun. the Bioshock series came from System Shock 2, a very systems driven game from the time of Deus Ex and Thief, all games where you could really experiment and go about everything in your own way. Despite the fact it is getting progessively linear, I do like the experimentation inherent in the Bioshock games.


Mister Six

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2013, 09:31:31 AM »
I actually found that Infinite's combat restricted my ability to experiment or mess with the environment - the Bioshock system isn't built around arena chaos, and there's no incentive to play strategically or experiment when all around you is chaos and you're too busy running and gunning to set up traps. Especially when tossing fireball grenades around will do for most enemies and shotguns will deal with the rest.

In the end, I rarely used anything more than fire/electricity/ravens. Occasionally I brought out the water tentacle, but that was it. I poured money into the shotgun and kick-ass revolver, and occasionally touted whatever machinegun came by, but rarely bothered with other weapons unless the game railroaded me into using them.

Also, the arenas really de-emphasise enemy AI. Not that Bioshock was ever AI-focused, I know, but there isn't the same sense of facing lots of diverse enemies, or learning tactics beyond specific weaknesses. Everyone either finds a bit of cover and fires at you, or charges.

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2013, 01:24:34 PM »
I just completed the (very expensive for my tastes) DLC of this, Burial at Sea: Part One.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. The first hour is brilliant, I got exactly what I wanted. You walk around Pre-Fall Rapture, talk to people, explore, walk about the shops, diners, bars. etc. There's a real decent amount. Similar to the first 40 minutes of Infinite before the raffle. This sections excellent and is just completely new, exciting and utterly beautiful. I mean, this is a game made by some real artists. I saw barely any recurring textures from Infinite really, it's clearly taken them so long because they've put the effort in. Heaps of character models for the civilians and such, or at least feels like it. I didn't notice any recurring, or at least it didn't stick out to me like it did in Infinite when it was the same four men and women about. Lots of cool music, heaps of new dialogue and stuff to explore. There's even a few cool little non-violent missions in this point. There's no real gameplay other than go here and explore there, but it's just so compelling.

This lasts about an hour. Then you go through a narrative turnstyle, and bam. You're booted into an area that is literally just a Bioshock hub area like the last two games full of splicers, and you go about killing people for another hour or so then it ends.

It has a very good ending but I was very non-plussed by this whole section. It was interesting in that it's less linear than Infinite was, and more like Bioshock 1 and 2. You're in a place where you need to go somewhere, but there's always whole different routes you can go to find cool stuff, track down audio diaries and plasmids and such. So there's quite a bit to explore. So that was nice, because Infinite really didn't have that whatsoever. It was generally just a straight line with very few digressions. Until there was that really big area towards the end when you had to fight [Spoiler]a ghost for some reason? Yeah, that was dumb.[/Spoiler], so at least this responds to that.

You also don't really have any ammo at any time. You're always having to scavenge for stuff, and it tries to get you to play it stealthy, but, well, it's not designed as a stealth game so it doesn't work.

I liked Infinite, but I admit it was incredibly flawed and this one has really cemented my negative feelings towards it. The combat in this game is frustrating because it doesn't add anything to the plot, and is just an arbitrary bottleneck inbetween giving story pieces. There's no real new stories being told in Rapture. Everything's been told in Rapture.

It has quite a good ending to it, ending on a cliff-hanger, but christ, there really isn't much story or plot in here, and the more I think about Infinite, there wasn't much story and relevant plot in there either. All the interesting stuff was front and backloaded, the second act being a huge, utterly bloated faff about. I'm actively hostile towards the gameplay of this now. I've defended Infinite because I did have such a great time initially, but it was just too bloated and problematic. I was hoping that they were going to respond to the criticisms, but unfortunately, it's just not fantastic.

I'd say the first hour of this is excellent, it's not progressing any of the main plot. There barely is any main plot. What you do in every single Bioshock is just go somewhere and have some arbritary problem wall be placed in front of you, and then you have to go on a roundabout mission to fix it before moving on. Always pushed along by a somewhat interesting macguffin. I'm very much tired of these games, I think.

The first one had a fairly bare-bones plot, but the story was all in the city. The symbolism, the political thought and the criticisms of certain philosophies, the characters who all represented different idealogies combatting each other, people losing their minds trying to improve every imperfection and losing their humanity because of it. It was interesting. Then when you meet Ryan, there's the first big hit of plot pay-off and you get the amazing 'Would you Kindly' scene. But after that, the game goes to shit.

The second one's already told all that, so it has a bit more of a plot, with you trying to track down this little sister, but also telling this story of a different guy who's come from the mainland looking for his daughter which actually has a brilliant understated pay-off, as opposed to the main plotline which was just so-so for the majority.

And Infinite offered you a brilliantly told first act of this story of trying to find the girl, then the whole second act doesn't do anything to really move anything forward, then suddenly it all really goes ahead in the last act.

This new one's been marketed as a noir. It's not. There's an introduction of the plot at the start, then you piss about for 2 hours, then they offer you some more actual compelling plot right at the very end. Nothing new or interesting is introduced in the entire game until that very last minute. So the plot's lacking in this, and there's no new story. Everything's already been told. You just get to walk about and be in this world again, in a prettier engine.


Basically, if you're really interested to just wander about for that first hour, and it's worth the 20 bucks just for that hour, then I'd say it's worth it.

I think it's silly to dismiss a game for having a high-price tag for only a short amount of playtime. If the experience is worth the money, then go for it.
I've heard Ken Levine say that defending this DLC, talking about how they wanted to choose quality over quantity, and I've had great experiences with short 20 dollar experiences, like Gone Home. But this expansion isn't really quality or quantity.

I'd really recommend possibly giving it a miss unless you're an absolute die-hard fan. If you had absolutely no problems with Infinite's combat, then hey! You'll like this.

EDIT: The RPS review sums up my opinions pretty well, except for the praise of the combat and improved tactics of it. It didn't feel particularly new or fun. It's a really bittersweet game and despite how lovely it starts, this was their last real chance to make a brilliant game, but they've cocked it up. I'd be hugely surprised if there's going to be another Bioshock game ever again after this. I assume Irrational will just do something completely new after the finality of Infinite. I'm very bitter towards the series now.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 01:49:03 PM by Bored of Canada »

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2013, 01:58:12 PM »
I've already got the season pass so I feel slightly better about the cost. I'm hoping I'll like it more than critics seem to, I never really had the issues with the combat that others seemed to.

Mister Six

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2013, 02:15:08 PM »
And Infinite offered you a brilliantly told first act of this story of trying to find the girl, then the whole second act doesn't do anything to really move anything forward, then suddenly it all really goes ahead in the last act.

The second act does a lot of groundwork laying out the mechanics of the gameworld and setting up the climax. I can't really think of anything that could really be chopped (as opposed to truncated).

Rev

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2013, 12:04:43 AM »
I'm sure it's great for what it is, but the pricing is a definite issue if it's a 2 hour thing.  Ken Levine's twattiness only makes it worse - no, we don't judge films by their length, but these things have a context, and this is like Grown Ups 2 coming out on DVD at £30.

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2013, 12:37:15 AM »
I've already got the season pass so I feel slightly better about the cost. I'm hoping I'll like it more than critics seem to, I never really had the issues with the combat that others seemed to.

Nor me. Many of the most common complaints seemed totally bizarre. Like people complaining that you rarely used vigours in combat or that the salts drained too fast. Personally, I used my vigours throughout and switched them up to suit the enemy; crows for the handy men, fire and possession for turrets, electricity in conjunction with a single shot... and the salts were fairly plentiful, in my experience, regularly topped up by Elizabeth and, if your chose to upgrade them over, say, health, hardly ever ran out. I genuinely think if you weren't using vigours very much, you weren't playing the game properly and were unintentionally making things harder for yourself.

Add in the tears, which were simple, but fun and added another, admittedly basic, layer of strategy and the fact that the guns themselves were really satisfying to use and personally I think it was perfectly decent combat; not exactly ground-breaking, but hardly riddled with problems or, as some people said, "tedious", either. Maybe if you find all shooters tedious, but otherwise, definitely not.   

My only two complaints were that, sometimes it was hard to work out where the enemy was shooting from and other times it seemed like enemy bullets were passing through the edge of cover. But when balanced against the enormous fun of using the vigours, and the sheer intensity of the battles, they're small complaints. 

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2013, 12:50:10 AM »
The second act does a lot of groundwork laying out the mechanics of the gameworld and setting up the climax. I can't really think of anything that could really be chopped (as opposed to truncated).

I kind of know what Bored of Canada means, though. The whole section set in Fink industries only really adds to the history of the game world, by introducing the idea that it isn't just other races that are oppressed, but the workers, too. In terms of the main plot, it adds very little, except building on the concept of tears and how the alternative worlds vary subtly from each other. Even the rise of the Vox - and that entire storyline - isn't exactly essential to the core plot, especially when you consider that, judging from [Spoiler]what Booker sees when he travels forwards in time, Comstock must have ultimately stopped the rebellion anyway[/Spoiler]. Really, that entire story line with the Vox is just there to build on the themes and add conflict - which is fine - but it's not an essential part of the main story. Fink industries even more so. 

All this being said, I honestly think that game has the best storyline of any game I've ever played and the two voice actors who play Booker and Elizabeth are the best I've ever heard. That game is comfortably one of my greatest ever gaming experiences and I wouldn't change it for the world. Having been through it myself, I'm now watching my friend, Crease, play through it and he seems to be loving it nearly as much.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 01:01:21 AM by eluc55 »

Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2013, 01:14:12 AM »
I've just woken up. My sleep patterns are all messed up, I think I was overly tired last night when I wrote that, I remember feeling very bitter.

Now that I'm less of a grumpy wanker, I'll be less overtly critical and more rational. The DLC is really expensive, if you bought the season pass, then that was probably a while ago and you're not going to feel the price point, and thus, you'll just enjoy it without any baggage. I'd really recommend it only for big fans of Infinite and Bioshock, but if you weren't a fan of Infinite, like a lot of people in this thread, it's really not going to win you over. Honestly, the amount of detail put into it and the amount of fun and sheer balls-out awe I had in that first hour really did make that 20 bucks count, for me, personally. If you are really interested, it's probably 10 bucks cheaper to buy the Season Pass and just get them both. I thought about it but I wasn't sure how I was going to feel, and I also just didn't want to spend more than 20 bucks, which I already thought was expensive, on something I wasn't going to get for potentially another 7 months or something.

I'd like to hear what Eluc55 and Thursday have to say about it when you finish it.

There's this great bit in the early-part [spoiler]where you get to go to this art-gallery, and see a few Sander Cohen paintings, and they're these absolutely beautiful Frances Bacon-esque art pieces. More bright and uplifting colour schemes, but ultimately still really fucking unnerving and bloody savage. It's really the perfect representation of Cohen for me. He's a psychopath but he's still an artist, and a bloody good one.[/spoiler]

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2013, 01:46:14 AM »
I'm definitely going to get it, despite really disliking the original game, because of how much I adore Infinite. 

The price is too high for me at the mo, though. I've got about 10 games to play and I just brought Arkham Origins at full price because I'm such a Batman groupie. I'll have to wait for a steam sale, I think.

Shade

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2013, 11:39:54 PM »
For people complaining about vigours, I thought the explanation for them was that they stole the formula from Rapture, as viewed in the tears, which seemed to pop up around Columbia as a result of the technology they used to keep the city afloat. The same goes for the Songbird, which was basically a big Big Daddy.

I don't know what happened inbetween the initial trailers for Infinite and it's final release but the big arena battles would have been a lot more enjoyable if the skyrail system was more expansive, as it seemed to be in the those early trailers. As it is you basically just go round the same area in circles. If I remember rightly you could also switch locations using the tears, which would have made things alot more interesting.
The other let down for me was the fact that vigours hadn't really evolved from plasmids, murder of crows was a nice upgrade from insect swarm, but really it was just more of the same in the end. The water tentacle and the sheeps head vigour were pretty samey, I liked the variation on the electro bolt, but overall really it was just more of the same. In the 6 years since the original Bioshock was released I was hoping for something a bit more advanced, and as others have said, who the hell has the time for vigour combos when all hell is breaking loose around you.
My enjoyment of the game started going downhill about the time you move into the revolution dimension and[spoiler]Fitzroy turns on you, I was hoping I could team up with the Vox for some single player co-op, but that finished almost as soon as it started[/spoiler] It seemed around that point it became a generic shooter, and they missed a trick not showing a post revolution Columbia in the same way we saw the city in the first 40 minutes or so of the game.
I liked the game overall, but as with the first Bioshock they just can't seem to sustain some great ideas over an entire game, whether that is outwith their control or not, I don't know, but it's as frustrating as hell. Maybe Bioshock 4 will finally nail it and we will get the greatest FPS ever created.

Maybe it is because my expectations were fairly low, but I think I enjoyed actually playing Bioshock 2 the most. The story is the weakest of the three games but as an out and out shooter it was probably the most fun to just play. What do others think of it?



Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2013, 01:59:37 AM »
There's a lot of weird backlash against Bioshock 2 but I think it does some things a lot better. This article here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-07-bioshock-2-retrospective highlights some of them and points out a flaw in Ken Levine's writing, which is that he doesn't really writer characters with human personalities, they're all there to serve a philosophical ideology, whereas Bioshock 2's characters have a little more nuance. And of course the Minerva's Den DLC hints at the heartfelt emotion the developers would go on to explore in Gone Home.

It's also has a better structured story, has a simpler focus and the action gradually builds rather than fizzling out early like in the first game or just sort of jumping around a lot like Infinite.

I would say though the adam collection with the little sisters does start to get a bit tedious. It is optional but you feel like you have to do it even when you're starting to feel overpowered.

eluc55

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Re: Bioshock Infinite
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2013, 02:28:39 AM »
a flaw in Ken Levine's writing, which is that he doesn't really writer characters with human personalities, they're all there to serve a philosophical ideology, whereas Bioshock 2's characters have a little more nuance.

I think that's an unfair criticism, though. One of the things that makes the Bioshock games stand out  is that they do explore philosophical ideas though their characters and environments. In my opinion, its one of the few redeeming features of the first game and it's what makes all of them unique. In fact, by Infinite, that criticism carries even less weight. Booker and Elizabeth are both beautifully written (and acted) characters and neither represents a philosophy in the way Comstock or Ryan do. Nor do the Lutece twins , now I come to think of it. By Infinite, the balance seems exactly right.