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Bioshock Infinite

Started by Neomod, September 02, 2010, 01:44:22 PM

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Thursday

Perhaps, I was thinking more of characters like Fink, or Sander Cohen though. The side characters are more fleshed out in Bioshock 2

Rolf Lundgren

Quote from: Rev on November 14, 2013, 12:04:43 AM
I'm sure it's great for what it is, but the pricing is a definite issue if it's a 2 hour thing.  Ken Levine's twattiness only makes it worse - no, we don't judge films by their length, but these things have a context, and this is like Grown Ups 2 coming out on DVD at £30.

And incredibly bad timing for it too. I'm not paying over the odds for DLC with Christmas coming up and can happily wait until sometime next year when they've knocked some money off.

Thursday

#92
Well I managed to make that last 3 hours, although I did spend far too long walking around looking at every inch of the game and I missed some diaries so I obviously wasn't doing a very good job of that. With the season pass the price seems just about fair enough, although I guess that'll depend on the next part.

Anyway I enjoyed it  The story parts of it are all great though, no real complaints.
Spoiler alert
Just remembering how Elizabeth insists on calling him "Mr DeWitt" nice touch there.
[close]
The combat is like a merging of Rapture and Infinite's combat although it doesn't really get the time it needs for you to experiment so much. Although I'm not really sure it needed "skyrails" they're not really as much fun in dark claustrophobic locations. It is pretty much as BoC described I just don't feel as negatively about those things.

Spoiler alert
Although considering how it ends... it does make everything you're collecting feel a bit pointless when you need them for such a short space of time as it's obviously not going to carry on after that. Anyway considering the twist at the end, I do feel slightly gratified about an issue that was debated about infinite's ending, which is whether or not Elizabeth "disappears" at the end or whether she became sort of like the Luteces. Although I'm interested to see if it'll try to rationally explain the surviving Comstock.
[close]

#93
Quote from: Thursday on November 16, 2013, 11:36:37 PM
Spoiler alert
Although considering how it ends... it does make everything you're collecting feel a bit pointless when you need them for such a short space of time as it's obviously not going to carry on after that. Anyway considering the twist at the end, I do feel slightly gratified about an issue that was debated about infinite's ending, which is whether or not Elizabeth "disappears" at the end or whether she became sort of like the Luteces. Although I'm interested to see if it'll try to rationally explain the surviving Comstock.
[close]

I have been thinking back on it and I feel I was probably being especially harsh to it. I think it did all really stem from the price-point for me. Especially with the knowledge that it's left on such a big cliffhanger and it's likely going to take for-bloody ever for it to actually come out, and when it does, I'll have to pay another 20 bucks again.

Spoiler alert
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. They've gone on record saying the next one's going to have you playing as Elizabeth, and it's going to be a survival horror style-game. I'm incredibly curious what they do with this, especially since I remember reading a whole bunch of interviews and stuff pre-Infinite release, about how they were strictly against the idea of giving Elizabeth a gun. So I assume you'll be using the tears, so I'm holding out for something a bit Portal-esque, combined with the final little bit of Infinite where you're running through all the alternate dimensions. That bit was amazing and I'd definitely love a chance to do another three hours of it. They've got all the assetts for Rapture and Columbia now so they could set bits and pieces in both and finally wrap up the logic of all this story and make their point clear. Obviously I don't want every plot detail explained but I'd like a proper conclusion now that they've reopened it all up again with this.

That reveal at the end was great though. Did make me sharply inhale as I realised what was going to happen with the portal closing. It's a small, probably now irrelevant point but no-one saved Sally during that monologue so she's dead now too, right?

I definitely felt like she became an omnipresent figure as soon as you blew up the...uh...I forget what it was called. The Statue of Liberty type thingy at the very end of Infinite?
She was then not bound by the laws of time-and-space and was every single Elizabeth simultaneously, and could see everything with that omnipresent clarity. Which is why and how she takes you through that last little section, trying to make you understand. And then at the end, she drowns Booker Dewitt in the water, as he's both sinner and saint, not being redeemed nor condemned in that one moment. She drowns him there and Bookers and Comstocks are eliminated from all dimensions, and the many Elizabeth's there represent that it's happening in the infinite number of alternate dimensions. That's how I see it. Although I guess the Bookers who did refuse the baptism were spared, hence the post-credits sequence, and since the Comstocks are dead, Anna Dewitt does not become Elizabeth nor gain her powers so in those dimensions the surviving Bookers and Anna's live happily ever after, maybe. Although I guess the godlike version of Elizabeth still remains as I've said, she's not fixed in time or space.

But yeah, this DLC opens it all up again, so I do honestly hope the entire 3 hours is dedicated to actually talking about it all. Instead of front-and-back loading most of it and using the second act as padding. Honestly, it seems the most logical thing to do if we are playing Elizabeth to actually make it more like that final 20 minutes of Infinite, which was possibly my favourite part, so I'd love to see more.
[close]

EDIT:

http://www.bioshockinfinite.com/burial-at-sea-ep2/

This clarifies there will be weapons actually.

Also,
Spoiler alert
perhaps this DLC is set simulataneously to the end of Infinite? It's her in all dimensions killing off all the Comstocks? Although I guess that doesn't quite make sense as killing the Booker base in Infinite should already have eliminated any others from existence. Then again, this Comstock left his dimension thank to the Lutece's so perhaps he doesn't follow the same cause-and-effect rules of the other Comstock, as he's also out of time-and-place?
[close]

Also, Also,
Spoiler alert
I really liked that audio diary trail, leading to the fella who locked himself in the room. I'm not sure if you found that one but
[close]
Spoiler alert
the punchline of them not actually getting to those he wanted them to because they lacked postage was a perfect dark punchline to that. And also sort of showcases how imperfect this Utopia is.
[close]

Thursday

Spoiler alert
Yeah I found that guy.

Even though he still should have been wiped out, I suppose the reason this Comstock got away is because he abandoned Columbia and went to hide away in Rapture before the events of the game. So hiding out in another universe meant he somehow escaped that.

A few hints at what's to come next in here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-12-ken-levine-discusses-bioshock-infinite-burial-at-sea-episode-1-ending
[close]

I played Bioshock 2 the full way through recently for the first time, and I just remembered a really small detail that I had just completely forgotten.

The Splicers in those games all have their unique barks for all of the models, they have their own personalities and are their own characters depending on the character model[nb]you can check it out on youTube if you like,[/nb]. But in Bioshock 2, there's these huge Brute Splicers that you have to fight, and as you fight them and you hurt them, they'll roar that you're a cunt.

Which, I really liked. It never feels overused and it fit the character and the context, and was particuarly affecting and a good choice in the context. I'm sure some people may disagree and I'm wary of the word a lot of times, but it felt appropriate in this.

The point of this little story is, I realised you don't often hear the word in games, at all really. I think you may hear it in some cutscenes in a Rockstar games, but never where you, the player, are actively being called it. 

I've recently restarted Bioshock the original and found myself surprisingly bored by the end of level one. If it's another wade through ten hours of shooting shit before a bit of ending it can Fuck Off.

Quote from: The Boston Crab on November 20, 2013, 01:23:54 PM
I've recently restarted Bioshock the original and found myself surprisingly bored by the end of level one. If it's another wade through ten hours of shooting shit before a bit of ending it can Fuck Off.

Nah. The good bit happens halfway through, then it potters about aimlessly, all the air from the balloon is let out in a big, disappointing farty noise. If you're not enjoying it so far, then you may not enjoy the rest. I honestly think of the start being the best game. The horror elements are top notch. Those jump scares are absolutely fantastic.

I must be the only one that didn't mind the climax of Bioshock being in the middle. I still enjoyed exploring the rest of the city. The only let down was having to fight the incredible hulk at the end, but the ending sequence was sweet enough.

Late as usual, but I recently completed Bioshock Infinite and although it does beckon me to replay, I know I can't ignore the fact that Booker DeWitt is one of the stupidest and annoying protagonists I've ever played as. There's not a single endearing thing about him. Having a blank canvas to play as in both the original and the sequel, you had plenty of opportunity to make your own ethical decisions. Not exactly complex decisions, but decisions that felt personal nonetheless because it was me, the player, making them. In Infinite, you're playing as a guy haunted by a boring past with only his brute strength to guide him, which left me as a player taking a backseat. When he bashed Comstock's head in towards the end, I felt absolutely nothing, and would have liked the option to take a non-violent route. You know, for the sake of some variation. Press X to 'Intervene' indeed.

Jim_MacLaine

Being only an occasional gamer has it's upside. Just picked up the 360 version with Arkham City for 20 notes.

Subtle Mocking

The following contains spoilers for Shrek Bioshock Infinite:






Thursday

Quite funny except for all the parts where it's really stretching the comparison and ignores the fact that both Shrek and Infinite are deliberately using fairy tale tropes.

http://m.au.ign.com/videos/2014/01/28/bioshock-infinite-burial-at-sea-part-2-preview

Part 2 'teaser', which I assume is just the opening few minutes of the new one. You really can't watch it whatsoever if you've not played the first one, as it's all major spoilers.

I'm very conflicted about the game. Infinite I enjoyed, but also didn't enjoy. Burial At Sea I enjoyed, for the first hour, then didn't enjoy. The storytelling in that one felt incredibly lacking, where all the narrative is set up in the first scene, and then it's just pointless busywork until the final moments, which are a cliffhanger for months, which is really infuriating. I was fine with the cliffhanger in Wolf A Mongoose, new Walking Dead, Broken Age and though they're not cliffhangers, Kentucky Route Zero.
Because the narratives in that felt far more substantial.

The final 15 minutes of Infinite is amazing, and it ends super quickly. This new one will surely be more busy work and then finally offering the rest of the stuff, but still being very ambiguous and teasing. It's all just a bit infuriating and insubstantial. I'm tired of the busy work and constant kissing about. Just give make the narrative more substantial and actually stick it in throughout the game. The bits of these I love are the first 40 minutes and the last ten. Just make more of that stuff, less of the contrived barricading where something breaks, or someone wants somethings, or you need the equivalent of a key to keep going. It's been this way since Bioshock 1, but since he's focused the game on Booker and Elizabeth, it actually needs to be about them. Not the city anymore. I've seen all I can of destroyed Rapture.

Ergh. My feelings towards this are so conflicting and odd. It's like being a Lost fan or something. All this hunting at a payoff, and never really getting there. I enjoy the symbolism, and digesting the various thematics and concepts at play, but I also want some substantial plotting as well as the story. I want things to happen. Interesting things. Things that continually develop the characters. I don't know.

Anyway, there's no release date for this. If they're showing this, I reckon a month or two.

This probably only interests Thursday and I, though.

Thursday

The trailer is intriguing, but I'm worried it's started to get a little too twisty for it's own good even though I do love that feeling of confusion it brings. The cliffhanger raised a lot of questions and this just raises even more. Will just have to wait and see. Even though I've defended the gameplay it's disappointingly obvious that for some reason Elizabeth's powers will be restricted but she'll suddenly be proficient at using guns for some reason.

I played through System Shock 2 recently and it's amazing to see how much these games have been repeating themselves even from back then - i.e something is blocking the lift, we need to clear that out of the way before we can move on. Story told through audio diaries - the antagonist is in constant radio contact throughout.

Also the story wasn't quite what I was expecting, since I thought it'd all mostly be you vs SHODAN rather than you allying with her for most of the game against the aliens. I got a bit lost really with the exact details of what was going on. For some reason it was really hard to get the audio mixing of all the sound, music and dialogue good.

The respawning enemies really made the game a bit of a drag at times, and the sounds of the spiders and some of the other gross stuff really made my skin itch.

Well, I just finished Burial At Sea Ep One. Still not convinced at all by the gameplay in Infinite, I probably used mêlée attacks for almost all of the game and it's too short really for any of the gear or plasmid upgrades to have any meaning. I enjoyed the start but it just seemed like a pretty arbitrary catalyst for some shooting bits. Pretty crap. The themes are as fascinating as ever and the world is mesmerising. It's just attached to a pretty dumb run and gun crapfest. The tears and monorails were basically redundant, the gunplay is really unsatisfying, there's no weight or impact to any of the weapons and no matter how stealthy you are or how well you clear any area, enemies can spawn behind you or just round the corner whenever the game decides you need to lose some health and then arbitrarily gives (literally) it back to you. Just an illusion of danger. I'll play the second part and hope to be finally satisfied by either the presentation of the clever clever concepts or the gameplay. Either would do me.

I also recently played through Bioshock, the original, and I thought the combination of guns and plasmids worked better, upgrades were certainly more meaningful than in Infinite. I think the twist is great and even knowing that there was a twist involving Atlas, I loved the 'would you kindly..." scene. It felt very well earned.

I've just started Bioshock 2 but can't really be bothered with it. I heard the DLC is great though, really deep story, so I might batter through it at some point.

Just looking forward to Last Of Us DLC though now, proper storytelling, not symbolism in place of characterisation, like fucking Borges or some shit.

Viero_Berlotti

This is free on PS+ this month. I've not played any of the other Bioshock games and I'm not a fan of FPS games in general. Shall I bother?

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Viero_Berlotti on February 04, 2014, 12:05:39 PM
This is free on PS+ this month. I've not played any of the other Bioshock games and I'm not a fan of FPS games in general. Shall I bother?

Recently, I picked it up for next to nothing – only had time for one hour but really liked the aesthetic – wouldn't say that it's necessary to play the others at all (and these days, what games are?>

If it's available PSN+, if you don't care for it, then it's only going to cost you the time that it took to reach that conclusion. Personally, I would try and give it a whirl.

Thursday

Even if you're not sure about a game that's free on PS+ it's worth "purchasing" it anyway. You don't have to download it, because it'll still remain in the download folder, so even when it stops being on offer, you'll still "own" it as long as you're a PS+ subscriber.

Quote from: Viero_Berlotti on February 04, 2014, 12:05:39 PM
This is free on PS+ this month. I've not played any of the other Bioshock games and I'm not a fan of FPS games in general. Shall I bother?

If only there were a thread you could...

Mister Six

Quote from: The Boston Crab on February 03, 2014, 08:20:01 PM
I've just started Bioshock 2 but can't really be bothered with it. I heard the DLC is great though, really deep story, so I might batter through it at some point.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit's not really, unfortunately. It's a very human story, which is something new for the Bioshock franchise in general, but it's not terribly 'deep', and the gameplay and level design really is just more of the same. Very few memorable sequences or moments. It's not bad at all, but I approached it expecting the same thing you do, and as a result it was something of a disappointment.

Thursday

I was sold on the basis of it having a surprisingly moving story and so I wasn't disappointed.

I think I'd settle very happily for 'conveys any emotion whatsoever besides rolling my eyes at the transparent yet misplaced self-satisfaction of Ken Levine'.

Seriously, the guy can create worlds and themes like a murrfucker but someone should ban the cunt from leaving audio logs around the fucking gaff and then contrarily crowbarring heavy-handed exposition in ten minutes later. JUST TELL A STORY CUNT YOU CUNT

I'll get it at some point.

Thursday

I know I've linked to this article before, and it'll spoil Bioshock 2 a bit, but it does make a good argument for Bioshock 2's characters having a bit more humanity behind them. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-07-bioshock-2-retrospective

It's still the same kind of Levine method and it's obviously got nothing on The Last of Us, but Bioshock 2 and the DLC's story is more about the people than themes. I'd recommend sticking with it a couple more hours at least.

eluc55

Quote from: Viero_Berlotti on February 04, 2014, 12:05:39 PM
This is free on PS+ this month. I've not played any of the other Bioshock games and I'm not a fan of FPS games in general. Shall I bother?

I stand by what I said when I played Infinite a few months ago.

QuoteI honestly think that game has the best storyline of any game I've ever played and the two voice actors who play Booker and Elizabeth are the best I've ever heard. That game is comfortably one of my greatest ever gaming experiences and I wouldn't change it for the world.

That game remains my best gaming experience of the last 5 or so years, at least. If you don't like shooters you won't enjoy it as much, but honestly, the game's absolutely magical.

Jerzy Bondov

The BioShock 2 DLC is very deep... It's at the bottom of the sea!!! Hahaha

Thursday

Another trailer for Burial at Sea part 2. A bit more spoilery this time.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RL4BOXGJzI#t=14

Spoiler alert
It seems like they're bringing back just about every character from the franchise, which is a bit worrying in a way, as if it's having cameos for the sake of cameos regardless of how much it adds to the narrative. It also seems like essentially they're just switching the roles of Elizabeth and Booker, so she uses guns and he has tear powers for some reason. Ken seems very confident about how much people will like it. Not sure what to think of that.

All that said, it does seem like it's going to have a compelling mystery story that'll pull me along in the same way Infinite did. And it is supposed to be a lot longer this time.
[close]

Honestly. All I really want is a sense of closure and satisfaction. I don't want them to be opening up new threads, I just want the entire game to be like the final half hour of Infinite proper. Everything in aid of the narrative. I'm surprised that she's got a gun, I remember reading interviews and such where Levine was adamant that they'd never give her a gun. Although, I guess
Spoiler alert
with the events at the end of episode two, she's losing herself in the violence as much as Booker has. After Infinite, she becomes an omnipotent god, basically, so I don't know if her character is really constrained by morality, if we're supposed to feel guilty about ending the Booker/Comstock timeline in almost the Killing Baby Hitler ethics.
[close]

I have so many complaints, but I still am excited about this. It really is like it must have been for Lost fans. Constantly feeling disappointment, but still being hooked line and sinker. Infinite I really liked at the time. Although the moments I liked were REALLY seperated from the gameplay. I think the gameplay was alright. I was playing on PC and on hard, and at times it was fun, especially when it was all working properly. But the things I liked about it were the moments that weren't aided by the gameplay, excluding the exploration aspects of opening 40 minutes, and the concluding 30. Burial at Sea was the same. I loved the opening hour, and the concluding 5 were very intriguing, but the middle of both the others was less appealing. I think if they stick with the survival horror aspect that they were talking about in their original pitch for this one, it could be really solid. If the emphasis of the gameplay is on avoiding combat encounters, as opposed to aggressively entering them in order to progress, it could work significantly better.

That's why the gameplay of the Last of Us worked so well. The combat was incredibly tense and fun, because you could get through almost every encounter by sneaking through, but most of the time you wouldn't. So when it did happen, it was a change of pace, it had that tension and terror, and the AI felt really clever and organic. The only time Last of Us' gameplay started to slog was towards the end of Winter when they were just throwing a few at you in quick succession for contrived reasons.
I think more tense exchanges with less people in more claustrophobic environments could be much stronger. Like the original.

I hope this'll be good. I genuinely do. Because it really does feel like it's going to be the last Bioshock thing they ever make, at least game. So I am hugely interested in what Irrational does next instead. They've got a great track record. Give us another Swat game. Had all the same dark and compelling environmental storytelling of Bioshock and Gone Home, with amazingly tense exchanges and tactical exchanges. Screaming at someone to drop the gun and not knowing if they will is terrifying. And finding what happened to the kids in that cult level was really clever and horrifying, and a completely optional sort of detail. Or even better, just make something new. No baggage. Do something cool.

Thursday

Irrational is closing http://www.computerandvideogames.com/450117/bioshock-dev-irrational-games-to-close/

It's sad really, one of the last embers of arty/auteur triple A games developers, but it seems to be what everyone wants, Levine going indie to focus on narrative driven games seems to be what a lot of people want, so maybe it'll be for the best.

I'm sad to hear that but hopefully he will now be able to work to his strengths without the need to crowbar in an anachronistic game format.

Matt Lees video is interesting. Not quite as interesting as the fact that I keep pimping his stuff here.
Have I been paid? If you count all the full-stops and hyphons in my writings here, does it actually translate into Samuel Morse's code?

That said, it's the final point which worries me, which I've been thinking about.
Saw this pop up at the top of a comments section on Destructoid, which has since been taken down from the original posters twitter. JP LeBreton's a guy who used to work for Irrational on Bioshock 1 and 2 before leaving.



Along with other posts on his twitter, which he hasn't deleted, but are less pointed and potentially start to run the risk of contractual and defamation related lawsuits.
The large amount of people who did jump ship from Irrational over the years, especially the mass amount of people who seemed to leave midway through Infinite seems like there's possibly more stuff going on behind the scenes here. I remember reading an article saying a lot of it was to do with the AI of Elizabeth just being impossible to get right, and such. But yeah, I think there'd be a fairly intriguing story behind all this is a games writer can actually interview the right people anonymously.

Regardless, this is exactly what I've been saying around these technology threads, designers need to be pulling back and descoping slightly. Focusing on smaller, more contained experiences. Limiting their budgets, saving themselves years of effort and just working on short 2-3 hour experiences, and charging for them less. It's really a win-win situation. The developers spend far less time and resources working on the projects. Can move onto new experiences and be free to experiment, and people will be happy to buy it shorter experiences, and if they pay less, but the developers and producers invested less, you'll make more of a profit. Especially if Gabe Newell's stats about selling games when you half the price actually sells five times as much as the full price. Hence the existence of the insanity of Steam and their Billions of dollars. 

Same with most mediums really. The film industry seems to be the best example of this.