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F1 2010

Started by surreal, September 18, 2010, 08:08:39 PM

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surreal

I saw a brief discussion of this in the Motorsport thread and thought I'd start one here anyway - been a long time coming for a real F1 game.  I used to love F1GP2 back in the day, so I've been really keen to see what Codemasters did with this.  I love GRiD so I'm happy with the engine, and from this E3 video it does look the business:

Codemasters F1 2010 Demonstration at E3 2010

Also I've been thinking of getting a wheel, probably the Logitech GT5 which is being re-launched for Gran Turismo.  Anyone has used a wheel and pedals for driving games?  Are they worth the money?  I was concerned a bit about how to stabilise it if I do have one (PS3, so sofa-bound rather than desk-bound with a PC). but I think I can appropriate the "Dave" laptop table I got from Ikea which is designed to be used from a chair or sofa, is height-adjustable and can be pulled very close to you when you're seated.

Anyone?

I bought the F1 game for the PS3 a few years ago, and that was alright. Nice rain effects as I recall. Is this Codies effort shaping up to best that one?



I prefer sim-y F1 games that can be configured to by arcade-y. The other way around rarely if ever words though.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Jake Humphrey played this with Lewis Hamilton and his brother (who is apparently amazing at driving games, perhaps unsurprisingly). It looked fucking incredible. You never know until you get your mitts on it though.

Steering wheels are worth the money, especially if you're into racing games, but can take a bit of getting used to.

George Oscar Bluth II

Steering wheels always seem like a step too far.

Game looks incredible though, have pre-ordered from amazon in the hope they dispatch it early like they apparently did with Halo Reach last week. I am gagging to do three practice sessions, qualifying and then race round Bahrain![nb]No really. I actually am.[/nb]

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 19, 2010, 12:05:32 PM
Jake Humphrey played this with Lewis Hamilton and his brother (who is apparently amazing at driving games, perhaps unsurprisingly). It looked fucking incredible. You never know until you get your mitts on it though.
It was sweet how excited Jake got at the 4 seconds he was in the lead before the brothers Hamilton streamed past him.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Isn't it horrible that you can't just play it competently from the off? Even with racing games it takes hours before you're anywhere near to learning about the handling characteristics and braking zones.

One of the problems is that if you start a season you can be miles better than you were at the start to the point where the difficulty level you're on isn't fun anymore.

Some problems to watch out for.

It seems to have lots of nice touches- the different tyre wears, the localised weather.....

ennui

Quote from: Shoulders?-Stomach! on September 19, 2010, 12:05:32 PM
Jake Humphrey played this with Lewis Hamilton and his brother.

Really enjoyed this vid, cheers.

So hyped for this. Dug Forza3 out of the box and got the Microsoft Wheel out to get myself back into the swing of things ready for release. Got it pre-ordered from ShopTo, fingers and toes crossed it might get here Thursday.

Rain looks great in this game, go check some vids if you haven't seen any yet.

There gonna be some online games organised?

Penfold

Quote from: ennui on September 21, 2010, 03:52:45 PM
So hyped for this. Dug Forza3 out of the box and got the Microsoft Wheel out to get myself back into the swing of things ready for release. Got it pre-ordered from ShopTo, fingers and toes crossed it might get here Thursday.


placed order with ShopTo and 10 minutes later got a dispatched email. Is it too crazy to hope it will arrive tomorrow or could that email be a mistake as 10 minutes from order to post seems pretty damned fast.

I didn't realise how much i wanted to play this until i watched a few videos, i used to have the PS3 F1 game from a few years ago and was always slightly disappointed they never released the update to make the PSP into a wing mirror. although that would have been a bugger to get set up correctly.

ennui

#8
Quote from: Penfold on September 21, 2010, 04:33:00 PM
placed order with ShopTo and 10 minutes later got a dispatched email. Is it too crazy to hope it will arrive tomorrow or could that email be a mistake as 10 minutes from order to post seems pretty damned fast.

Sounds a bit weird, but maybe. I haven't had any word about my pre-order that was placed ~2 weeks ago though.

Edit: Maybe you got lucky. Looks like mine was despatched at 6:46pm tonight :D

MALCOLM

It's.....erm....."out"

I have pre-ordered from Steam but will give this "demo" version a go as it doesn't unlock on Steam until 6pm Friday

MALCOLM

It's fucking amazing.

It's nowhere near as sim-like as rFactor, but you really feel like an F1 driver.

Initially it feels a little floaty and a bit laggy on the controls, but once you get used to it it's fine.

The circuits are gorgeous, the race balance feels right. I'm on the highest level with no assists and it feels right, I can qualify as Kovi just behind Trulli, and the first few laps were a real ding dong with the HRT's, Lotus's, Virgins, I passed and was re-passed by Senna a few times,

You really sense the lack of grip on cold tires and the increasing confidence you get when they and the brakes warm up so you can hit your braking points and get on the power early without lighting up the rears and spinning. Which is what I did before coming in here.

When in the race, you get nice touches like tiny bits of rubber coming off the car in front, horns seem to blow as you go past stands and pull a move on someone.

The circuits are impossibly detailed, as you come out of the pits at Monza (the pit engine is absolutely appalling BTW), you can see spectators just above the pits to the right in the VIP areas, moving as realistic 3d objects, no animated flat images here. Real next gen stuff, they've absolutely nailed it for me.

One quick spin in the wet somewhere and that's it for me tonight.

Silverstone I think.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I seethe with jealousy, you complete utter bastard.

MALCOLM

I think a lot of people aren't going to like it, it's a long way away from the realism of rFactor or Live for speed, but then that's not what they pitched it as

It's not that the cars don't look and behave like they would in something like rFactor, they do, but it's not all down to your control

CM said all along that rFactor was too hard, even Davidson said it was harder than the real thing in many ways, you just don't get the real world feedback that is required to handle such realistic physics, there's an intuition you get in a real car with the feedback through the steering and brakes and throttle that can't be replicated in a sim on a screen

What CM have done is produce a driving model that enables you to drive like an F1 driver out of the box so you're not spinning out every lap, but neither are you quick, only learning the circuits and breaking points will get you up anywhere you should be on the grid

I dunno, get a copy and see for yourself, but I really don't think you will be disappointed, especially if you aren't looking for hardcore sim

I'm just glad I don't have to wait until the fucking Steam copy unlocks on Friday at 6pm, what a load of crap. I'll get rid of this copy though when it does because you never know if the crack has screwed something up in the game somewhere.

The chief designer posted a really nice, long message on the CM forum this week explaining how much of a fan of the genre he was, and constantly stressing that he hoped people appreciated what they were trying to do with the game. I think he was referring to the hardcore simmers that may not appreciate the way they've tried to make everyone competitive and not just those that get the tiny setups of the car correct, and spend hours perfecting their racing lines like would be required in real life. The whole point is CM have produced an engine where that is not required, only time will tell if that has made it too easy.

Oh and get a wheel if you haven't got one.

ziggy starbucks

Quote from: MALCOLM on September 21, 2010, 10:55:23 PM

Oh and get a wheel if you haven't got one.

nice write up, Malcolm. Is there a wheel you recommend?

MALCOLM

Logitech G25 or G27

Ok, having spent a couple of days with this, as good as it is, there are some flaws

It's tough to nail exactly what all the little niggles are, because I'm experimenting with the different settings to try and make it as fun as possible

There is a little lag in the shifting selection and audible confirmation, you can resolve this somewhat by disabling "rapture" in the sound options

You get far too many punctures, at least two every race weekend for seemingly nothing than driving the racing line. I've tried turning off "tire simulation", but after leaving the pits, I got another puncture. How disappointing is that? tire simulation and fuel sim have to be the most important parts of an F1 sim. The varying levels and condition of these things is fundamental to an F1 race

And speaking of fuel, there's something weird happening betwen quali and race. Generally, quali seems right on the highest AI level, I can get the car around my teammates time. But come the race, it's as though everyone else has a low fuel load, and you have a full tank. They all fly off into the distance taking lines and corners at speeds you can only dream of. I can barely keep up with the guy in last place. So I may turn off fuel simulation, just to see if I can get a decent race out of it. Trouble with that is, you get full tire and low fuel grip all the time, the cars are super controllable, but degradation and lightening fuel load are all critical to an F1 race

On the one hand, this game gets an awful lot of things right, sadly there's so many little niggles, I'm starting to wonder if the thing is playable at all. I so hope they patch this, because all the ingredients are there, they're just not coming together right at the moment. :(

MALCOLM

Ok this is better, this game does seem to give wildly different results right now, but--

Thought I'd give the career a go, full length, full fuel and tire wear

At Bahrain I managed to qualify quite high in the Virgin, 16th I think

In the race I feel back quicklly to where you'd expect to see that car but, keeping it carefully on the track and keeping kerb mounting to a minimum, I'm having an epic struggle at the back with Chandhok and Senna. When past them I began bearing down slowly on the Torro Rossos, and I mean the creeping slowness you get in F1, fractions of seconds a lap. I'd watched them tussling for 4 or 5 laps all over each other, before catching and splitting them which is where I am now, matching lap times with Buemi and Alguesari with no apparent wildly differing fuel loads, just very evenly matched cars and a really impressive battle with very tough AI drivers

Seems the jruy is very much out on this game, but it is able to give you some great experiences. It's so, so close to being a real classic.

MALCOLM

Hmmm, very strange.

Was having a great race just managing to stay in front of the Torro Rosso's

My pit window opened, but my tyres were still good, so I stayed out which kept me 19th. Eventually the option tyres had gone off significantly enough for me to pit, for the pit in lap I noticed my G25 neutral point was moving slightly left, so I had to keep the wheel at about 5 degrees pointed left to keep the car straight

Weird I thought, but maybe an odd quirk in the game to simulate degrading tyres. But after exiting with new tyres, it continued to deteriorate to the point I had to hold it at 90 degrees to the left to keep the wheels straight

Eventually I had to quit as it was undriveable with the paddle shifters now at the top and bottom when the wheels were pointing straight ahead

This game is fucking weird

George Oscar Bluth II

Mine's arriving tomorrow, really looking forward to making my own mind about it after reading wildly different things about it online. Even, like Malcom, wildly different assessments from the same people.

Maybe F1 2011 will be the classic...

surreal

Keep the opinions coming, I'm looking at getting this and the Logitech GT5 wheel / pedals (can't justify the G25!) when I get back from hols in a couple of weeks.  Hopefully they will have patched the initial bugs by then

MALCOLM

Well at least we can cross off one potential bug from the list we have here at least, my weird wheel alignment issue was actually my G25 dying a slow and agonising death. So that horrifically expensive indulgence with snazzy machined metal pedals and paddle shifters is now half poking out of the bin, and I am the proud owner of a, slightly inferior but at least new, Logitech Driving Force GT wheel. I'll be fucked if I'm replacing the G25 with a 350 quid G27. 350 quid. For a bloody gaming wheel.

sigh

Ambient Sheep

350 quid?!  FFS, for that money I'd try to fix it rather than just slinging it in a bin.  Probably just dirt on a shaft-encoder wheel or something.

MALCOLM

Actually make that 250 quid

http://playcom.at/cookdandbombd?DURL=http://playcom.at/cookdandbombd?DURL=http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/12096740/Logitech-G27-Racing-Wheel-And-Pedals/Product.html

I took the G25 apart, it has two motors either side of the shaft, the wheel was turning kindof 10 degrees, then stopping. It should turn 450 degrees one way, then the other when it calibrates.

There was nothing blocking it, seems as though something on the circuit board that controls the amount of turn has gone, or perhaps a motor

The GT is actually a really good replacement, it's a better wheel, just without all the brushed steel everywhere, £80

I've elected to do career mode on F1 2010, in one of the Virgins, on 50% race distance. Feels good, finished ahead of one of the Torro Rosso's in the end in 19th, just behind Chandhok

I've gone back to my original assessment that this game is pretty awesome. No punctures this time, I tried to stay off the kerbs for the most part. The tire wear and different compounds makes for interesting sections of the race and a bit of tactical play to try and stay out as long as possible until the lap times start to suffer. I don't even notice the audio lag anymore, probably because I disabled rapture, and there was no sign of the AI being really really light on fuel at the beginning of the race.

What impresses me most is the whole experience of a race, the unbelievably detailed circuits, all the right cars and rules, nicely paced AI, from the T-Cam it's very much like watching a GP, the way the cars turn in and take kerbs and such. Buemi was going defensive for a few laps on every overtaking point as I was clearly faster. It's hard to pass when someone goes so tight to the apex like that, most racing games don't manage to reproduce this aggressive defending. Eventually I went round the outside of turn 4 which becomes the inside of turn 5 up the hill.

Very, very realistic, even if the physics aren't quite sim-like. It's just a whole lot of fun when it all clicks into place, and therefore is a more complete experience than a hardcore sim like LFS or rFactor.

surreal

Malcolm, are you on a PC /PS3 /Xbox?  Just wondering if the experience differs at all...

ziggy starbucks

I really fancy getting a wheel/pedal combo and do some pretend racing but I've heard too much criticism of the game to spend the money. Malcolm's less-than-full praise matches what lots of other people have been saying on the internet. There's talk of a patch being arranged soonish but there's no way I'm going to spend serious money on the game/wheel if they've only bothered to release a beta version the game

George Oscar Bluth II

I've enjoyed it lots so far. There's niggles, obviously. Pit stops are one, even when they go right they often go wrong (I got dumped 20 places after pitting late at Shanghai, somehow EVERYONE went past me while I was in the pit lane), and you'll spend time working out which settings make racing most enjoyable for you and sometimes baffling things will happen, like being told by your Matt Baker off Blue Peter soundalike engineer that Kovaleinen is five seconds ahead of you when he's so close you can read the sponsor on the back of his wing. But when it comes good, it comes really good. An epic wet race round Melbourne, tangling with the backmarkers fighting for 17th place, briefly topping the table in a Torro Rosso when you set the first lap time in Q1, dropping your career and doing joyful lap after lap of Spa in the McLaren...

If you like F1, you should get this game.

MALCOLM

#25
Quote from: surreal on September 25, 2010, 04:31:22 PM
Malcolm, are you on a PC /PS3 /Xbox?  Just wondering if the experience differs at all...

PC

Quote from: ziggy starbucks on September 25, 2010, 05:35:56 PM
I really fancy getting a wheel/pedal combo and do some pretend racing but I've heard too much criticism of the game to spend the money. Malcolm's less-than-full praise matches what lots of other people have been saying on the internet. There's talk of a patch being arranged soonish but there's no way I'm going to spend serious money on the game/wheel if they've only bothered to release a beta version the game

As Jobe says, if you like F1, get this game. If you like hardcore sims, however.....

The thing is, if you buy a wheel, it opens up access to unbelievably good sims like Live for Speed, Netkar, rFactor, Race On, GTR2

Had my second championship race today at Melbourne, finished second last ahead of my teammate Di Grassi but had a real good go at getting past Senna at the last corner, but wasn't to be. Fiendishly difficult on Legend AI settings, but it felt just about right as an F1 race should go. The Ferraris, Mclarens and Red Bulls all fighting it out up top, no signs of the weird fuel level discrepancies, no punctures, all looking good so far and I'm really starting to enjoy this game. No sign of rain yet, other than when I've told it to rain in time trials. But Malaysia up next, no who knows. Worst thing about every racing game though is the first 10 laps on a new circuit, learning and finding all your braking points. Whilst I know my way around Monaco, Monza, Silverstone, Spa, Canada and now Bahrain and Melbourne, I've never raced Sepang.

George Oscar Bluth II

The pit stop bug may be ruining this game for me.

MALCOLM

I haven't seen that one personally, just heard about it, but then my tyres are always handling beautifully when my scheduled stop comes around so I just stay out and wait for the tyres to go off, then request pit in.

Have you tried doing that? I race 50% distances so I'm wondering if this problem is more prevalent in shorter race distances when there is less scope for staying out, asssuming tyre degradation is scaled and accelerated to act as a percentage of the race distance.

George Oscar Bluth II

I'm doing 30%, haven't tried just running the tires until they're shot yet though. Will report back.

The Bejesus

(Long time lurker breaks cover to discuss Xbox game shock).

Hi, been enjoying the discussion and gave in at the weekend (skint!) and got this.  Really enjoying it so far, albeit on the complete beginner level until I get the hang of it.  Having said that, I am driving the Virgin and struggled at first to get much past 19th in practice or qualifying, when from nowhere I go out during quali for Australia, make pole by 2 seconds then come 2nd in the race.  I have no idea what I did to make such an improvement.  Or am I just secretly good in Oz?!  The only change I made was to switch up to adaptable from the wet set up despite the rain.

It's not helped cos the team hate me now for being crap in the subsequent races.

I'm running with all assists on at the moment but from what I'm reading the brake assist is the one to learn to play without?

Not noticed any of the glitches so far either...not that it'd bother me trundling round in 22nd.