Headphones (Recommendations)

[Buchstansangur]

They look like you'd have to fire them into your ears using a particularly wanky sort of gun.

[The Boston Crab]

Couldn't help but read that in a 'Christopher Morris' voice. They look aces, Bugsy, but sound duffers. Maybe they'll flatten out a bit once they settle down but out of the box, they're vastly overpriced. Prob got great resale value though, given the exact type of fool that would buy them.

[pyronite]

Grado.

I'll second this - very happy with my Grado SR80 set. My only complaint with Grado is their disinterest in making the cans comfortable. I got used to it (ear calluses?), but they initially gave me headaches after 30 minutes or more.

I can't handle earbuds. I've tried the default (crap) pairs, the slightly better store-bought crap, and one nice pair of Sennheiser buds. I definitely go with over-ear if it's got to be portable.

[The Boston Crab]

My only complaint with the SR80s is that they're almost unusable outside the house because of the leakage/lack of isolation. Other than that, they're lovely.

My mate just got a pair of these:



They look spectacularly vulgar, may well be at least a hundred quid overpriced and come in a ludicrous collector's case but they're supposed to sound phenomenal. I'm looking forward to giving them a good go. Also, had tracking confirmation from Russia finally. Should have these ugly bastards within a week:



The uglier the better, I reckon.

[mobias]

I'll second this - very happy with my Grado SR80 set. My only complaint with Grado is their disinterest in making the cans comfortable. I got used to it (ear calluses?), but they initially gave me headaches after 30 minutes or more.

I can't handle earbuds. I've tried the default (crap) pairs, the slightly better store-bought crap, and one nice pair of Sennheiser buds. I definitely go with over-ear if it's got to be portable.

Yup Grago Labs probably make the best headphones money can buy. The great thing about them is that even their low end stuff like the SR-80's sound like they should cost way more than they do. I treated myself to a pair of SR125i's a little while ago and they're incredible.

I use them outside the house all the time and have so far had no problem with them.

[The Boston Crab]

Yup Grado Labs probably make the best headphones money can buy.

I think there are several brands who would strongly disagree but yeah, they're super solid and great value. Was gonna get some SR80s myself except...

I use them outside the house all the time and have so far had no problem with them.

The leakage is the problem...and you're not really going to find that out until someone on the bus gets pissed off enough to tell you.

[mobias]

I think there are several brands who would strongly disagree but yeah, they're super solid and great value. Was gonna get some SR80s myself except...

The leakage is the problem...and you're not really going to find that out until someone on the bus gets pissed off enough to tell you.

I'm sure there are lots of companies that would disagree but I've had very good headphones from most of the well known brands over the years and Grado can't be beat in my opinion. I'm actually fairly new to Grado Labs, I'd never heard of them at all until a friend of mine returned from the USA with a brand new pair if SR-80's a year or so ago. I couldn't believe how good they sounded, I'd never heard music sound so good before. The bass is really lush and the middle and high frequencies are all so clear.

I do love good headphones. I'd much rather spend a lot of money on amazing headphones than amazing speakers.

As far as the leakage problem is concerned on public transport I find that with my Grado Labs they don't have to be turned up way loudly to be enjoyed. If people are going to find the leakage problem annoying enough to complain about then they probably will with any headphones if they're turned up loudly enough and in ear 'bud' type headphones totally wreck your hearing if they're turned up too loudly anyway.

I read there's a huge second hand market for vintage Grado Labs headphones because apparently the really high end ones actually sound better over time and there's a 'bedding in period' for new ones after which they sound noticeably better. If I ever won the lottery I'd buy the GS1000i that has the hand made wooden finish http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm  £1000 though.   

[chocky909]

As far as the leakage problem is concerned on public transport I find that with my Grado Labs they don't have to be turned up way loudly to be enjoyed. If people are going to find the leakage problem annoying enough to complain about then they probably will with any headphones if they're turned up loudly enough and in ear 'bud' type headphones totally wreck your hearing if they're turned up too loudly anyway.

That's a very selfish and deluded attitude if you don't mind me saying. Closed headphones make the sound almost undetectable to others around you whereas open headphones are like playing mobile phone speakers. I would never use my MS-1s on public transport no matter how low I had the volume. As for wrecking your hearing, well surely the type of headphone is irrelevent. If you play it too loud your hearing will be affected. It's true that in-ears can be very loud on top whack though so accidents are more likely.

I have a pair of AKG K-701s which are open and sound delicious but I had to spend a shitload on extra equipment to make them sing. A proper headphone amp is vital to drive them properly so I got a Heed Canamp. The Alessandro (Grado) Music Series Ones I have are a lot easier to drive and sound good plugged in anywhere. I've also got the Sennheiser HD 280 Pros which are closed back and very highly thought of. If I didn't use in-ears while out, these are the ones I'd wear as they keep you totally isolated but they can be a little tight.

I used to use Sennheiser CX300 or Creative EP630s which were almost identical. Eventually I got interested in high end in-ears and spent a whopping £200 on ebay for a pair of Westone3s that retailed for £350. They sounded amazing and I used them for about 18 months before the connection started to cut out so I got a replacement but sold them to try out my current pair which are the Sennheiser IE8s. They sound great but not as crisp and authoritative as the Westones. They are warm and dynamic and I'm hoping they'll improve when I get my custom fitted sleeves from ACS.

[mobias]

That's a very selfish and deluded attitude if you don't mind me saying. Closed headphones make the sound almost undetectable to others around you whereas open headphones are like playing mobile phone speakers. I would never use my MS-1s on public transport no matter how low I had the volume. As for wrecking your hearing, well surely the type of headphone is irrelevent. If you play it too loud your hearing will be affected. It's true that in-ears can be very loud on top whack though so accidents are more likely.

I don't mind you saying at all but I do mind being accused of being selfish and deluded if you're going to come back at me with an argument which is in part total bullshit. Saying open ear headphones are like mobile phone speakers is a total exaggeration.   At a very loud volume and with certain makes then maybe but not when played at reasonable volume, and when I say reasonable I mean fairly quietly. Anyway I've never in my entire life come across someone listening to a pair of open ear headphones that came close to the annoying yobs you get on buses with their mobile phones playing loudly.  I dare say some headphones are better than others but with Grado Labs noise leakage isn't too bad, its certianly not a thousand times worse than standard ipod headphones.  On any given train or bus journey journey you can usually hear the sound of someone's headphones whether they're in ear or outer ear.  If you think its selfish to to make other people listen to that noise leakage then don't listen to music on public transport. Obviously beyond a point I would defintely admit its selfish but not at acceptable volume - even with open ear headphones. 

The type of headphone you use makes a difference to hearing damage. The earbud type headphones have been proven to cause more damage because they direct the sound directly at the ear drum and the sound they produce contains generally higher frequencies than big open ear headphones. I wouldn't go near a pair of earbud type headphones if you paid me, they've knackered my hearing over the years. 

[The Boston Crab]

Unfortunately for me, I had a go on the Miles Davis Tributes by Monster tonight. Best phones I've ever heard. I was laughing with delight. Father Christmas better fucking get told. Deafness all the way. No matter what music I threw at them, they presented it better than I've ever heard. Analytical clarity, soundstage and separation but with the cohesive warmth and 'musicality' that suits my tastes. $400 is a lot of money but the 'no questions asked' lifetime guarantee will surely pay for itself. I can't see myself ever needing another pair of IEMs...

[chocky909]

I don't mind you saying at all but I do mind being accused of being selfish and deluded if you're going to come back at me with an argument which is in part total bullshit. Saying open ear headphones are like mobile phone speakers is a total exaggeration.   At a very loud volume and with certain makes then maybe but not when played at reasonable volume, and when I say reasonable I mean fairly quietly. Anyway I've never in my entire life come across someone listening to a pair of open ear headphones that came close to the annoying yobs you get on buses with their mobile phones playing loudly.  I dare say some headphones are better than others but with Grado Labs noise leakage isn't too bad, its certianly not a thousand times worse than standard ipod headphones.  On any given train or bus journey journey you can usually hear the sound of someone's headphones whether they're in ear or outer ear.  If you think its selfish to to make other people listen to that noise leakage then don't listen to music on public transport. Obviously beyond a point I would defintely admit its selfish but not at acceptable volume - even with open ear headphones. 

The type of headphone you use makes a difference to hearing damage. The earbud type headphones have been proven to cause more damage because they direct the sound directly at the ear drum and the sound they produce contains generally higher frequencies than big open ear headphones. I wouldn't go near a pair of earbud type headphones if you paid me, they've knackered my hearing over the years.

You might think the leakage on Grados and standard Apple phones is acceptable on public transport. I do not. And of course I was exaggerating about them sounding like mobile phone speakers but it's almost worse because all you get is the treble. I've tested my closed headphones and IEMs and the leakage is pretty much negligible at normal volumes, even in a quiet room. As for IEMs being bad for your ears, well that's a matter of some debate and I am wary, keeping volumes as low as possible. But they sound feckin awesome and really block out the background noise, including quite appropriately, the tinny din eminating from people wearing less considerate audio accessories.

[mobias]

As for IEMs being bad for your ears, well that's a matter of some debate

Actually its not really http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051216191834.htm

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/29/0055249

http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/ipod-earbuds-can-cause-permanent-hearing-damage-20051220/

[The Boston Crab]

Interesting stuff!

Regardless, my Fischer Audio DBA-02 came in the post (God bless half-term) and the clarity is absolutely ridiculous. The trebles extend so far up, without any sibilance, I've never quite heard anything like them. It's like your eardrums being tickled by millions of tiny feathers. They're very much geared towards the 'analytical' taste and electronic/bass-heavy music fares less well, sounding a little thin/top-heavy but live/acoustic/jazz recordings are fucking insane. I just listened to some Balinese gamelan stuff and the tone and texture of every strike was so crisp and clear. It's almost unnerving at first. Due to the brightness, you wouldn't necessarily want to listen to them at a high volume anyway but these days I seldom go past 40% on the iPod. A couple of years ago, I'd listen at 80/90% which is plain wrong, I firmly believe you become desensitised to volume even before your hearing is significantly damaged. It's good to train your ears to pick up lower volumes.

Right, back to the couch for another hour. These and the Miles Davis Tributes have changed the game for me.

[The Boston Crab]

changed the game

I was high on frequencies at the time of using this phrase. Forgive me.

That said, the Bugsy Malone soundtrack now sounds like it did when I was 5. I even have the same feelings of confusion at my spontaneously engorged throbber. Hearing the 'let me have him, Joe!' line in 'So You Wanna Be A Boxer' was like having a thin layer of sand poured down my Jap's eye, then having a long Cook's match inserted fully into the urethra before my load is involuntarily blown, propelling, igniting and expelling the match, sending flaming globules of luxurious lava all over Cagey Joe.

[mcbpete]

I have a pair of AKG K-701s which are open and sound delicious but I had to spend a shitload on extra equipment to make them sing. A proper headphone amp is vital to drive them properly so I got a Heed Canamp

I've got some AKG 701s as well and they're absolutely bloody awesome. Though I don't have a headphone amp, I still have absolutely no bloody idea what they're meant to do. I've got mine plugged into my Echo Audiofire 4 external audio interface and never have the volume level above half way - so in my mind the idea of having some extra thing to amplify it even further seems a bit pointless. Who knows maybe the AudioFire has a headphone amp already built in which is why I don't see the need for one ...

[chocky909]

A dedicated headphone amp isn't to make it louder but to properly drive and evenly amplify it. Some headphones (such as the 701s) demand very particular amplification that the built in headphone amp in most audio components can't cope with. There are plenty of similarly awesome phones such as the Grados that can be hooked up to anything such as ipods and laptops and still sound fantastic. However unless I connect my 701s to anything other not via my Heed Canamp it sounds weedy and not as awesome. It could be that your setup is capable of driving it but chances are you aren't getting the most out of it.

In other news. The custom sleeves for my Sennheiser IE8s arrived last week and they are so, so good. They go so comfortably sealed and deep into my ear canal that I only need to have my mp3s around the 18/19 (out of 40) instead of the usual 24-28.

Looky!





It's a shame they could get them to fit my Westone 3s properly due to the shape. I miss them. Perhaps if I win the lottery I'll get a pair of Westone Customs.

[HappyTree]

Ugh, I don't fancy putting a fluorescent slug in my ear!

[The Boston Crab]

Chocky, you're either very rich or very poor. Either way, I like your style, brother.

I'm going to look into a portable amp, heard the Fischer Audio Mystify is another excellent FA product and works wonders with the DBA-02s.

Those AKG-701 look brilliant as well. I'm definitely in the market for a nice bright pair of cans for home listening. Have you tried anything similar in the price range?

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

Dull and possibly silly question: is it true that decent headphones need to be "bedded-in" for a week or two before they begin to perform at their best?  The phrase crops up quite often from people who seem to know what they're talking about, but I wonder how much of it is kidology or self-deception.

[chocky909]

Either it's a matter of some debate which it is or it isn't which it isn't.

The general consensus is that 'dynamic' headphones benefit from burn in and many people play 'white noise' or 'pink noise' for hundreds of hours before using them to listen. Personally I've yet to experience this improvement despite using quite a few different pairs over the last few years. I think the brain changes the sound far more than any other factor so I'll leave others to do proper scientific tests to find out if it is actually important. If it was then surely they'd be pre burned at the factory so they are ready to use?

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

Thanks.  It seems quite a few people assign eclectic playlists to their phones to break them in - this is before they even listen to them at any length themselves!  I can see that headphones are sensitive and prone to idiosyncrasies, so there may be something behind it, but probably part of this is because expensive headphones often expose the shortcomings of the source - the "bedding-in"-period is simply one's hearing getting gradually used to a less forgiving, but more accurate, output.

[NoSleep]

When I bought my Denon AHD2000's a couple of years ago, they sounded quite different from the headphones I was using beforehand, which were a set of Denon AHD-750's. The 2000's were noticeably brighter than the 750's when I first used them.

The only reason I replaced the 750's was because they had been dropped and were only held together with Gaffa tape; so they still sounded perfectly OK when I held them to my ears, which wasn't practical as I need to be hands-free while mixing & listening at the same time, in order to audition the sound accurately as I tweak it, saving valuable time.

I recently compared the 2000's to the 750's out of interest, now that the 2000's have been thoroughly worked (although I perceived a change of sound in only a couple of weeks of using them - but without a comparison test) and they are no longer brighter than the 750's; they sound quite similar to one another.

Obviously the ideal test would be to compare a brand new set of 'phones to a set of the same that had been broken in (no psychology would be involved), but the above is objective enough proof for me.

[The Boston Crab]

I just ordered these crass bastards because I work really hard and never treat myself:

300 quid but come with a one-time no-questions-asked replacement warranty which lasts until I'm dead. Also, they're probably the least divisive headphones I've heard or read about. Give anyone five minutes and they won't want to give them back. There's no attention-grabbing sound sig to wow you for a few weeks, they're just luxurious in every way, doing everything exceptionally well and sounding as full as anything I've ever experienced.

I'm excited.

[NoSleep]

Mmmm... are those gold fittings or gold plating?

Here's some (even more costly - £800) headphones made of mahogany to wonder at:

[Consignia]

Anyone here tried the Phonak PFE 012s? I got a pair for Christmas, and I have found them really quite good. I'm no audiophile, so I cannot vouch for their sound quality with any qualifacation, but to me the sound is brilliant. They are also really comfortable to wear and feel quite robust. Much better than my old Denon C351s which broke too often. I'd recommend them to anyone looking for a decent pair of buds for under £80.

[The Boston Crab]

They look absolutely beautiful. I was really tempted to get some wood phones, I just want to hear if there's any difference (heard they tend to be quite warm). They almost all look gorgeous. I'd be worried about maintaining them, though, heat and damp and so on. I mostly listen to music on the go these days, which is why I'm a bit frustrated by the DBA-002. They're so detailed and delicate but that's all lost on the rumbling train or microphonic pad-padding through the streets.

As for the MDs, I'm pretty sure they're just gold and brass plated. Since I first saw them and thought they were the most tasteless things I'd ever seen, the look has grown on me. I'm currently borrowing my mate's pair (final run-through before I decided whether or not to take the plunge) and nobody has laughed at me in the street. I probably wouldn't mind if they did, I'd just say 'THEY'RE CALLED IN-EAR 'SPEAKERS' BEAT THAT' and trot off, like a wanker.


Edit: My mate's bro just got some Phonaks, not sure which, but he's really enjoying them.

[NoSleep]

They look absolutely beautiful. I was really tempted to get some wood phones, I just want to hear if there's any difference (heard they tend to be quite warm). They almost all look gorgeous. I'd be worried about maintaining them, though, heat and damp and so on. I mostly listen to music on the go these days, which is why I'm a bit frustrated by the DBA-002. They're so detailed and delicate but that's all lost on the rumbling train or microphonic pad-padding through the streets.

I've got a pair of the mahogany ones' synthetic-material brothers for £200 (AHD-2000). They sound very good and make a good job of not buzzing or rattling (which the mahogany is meant to improve upon).

[buntyman]

my Fischer Audio DBA-02 came in the post and the clarity is absolutely ridiculous. The trebles extend so far up, without any sibilance, I've never quite heard anything like them.

2 months later....

I just ordered these [300 quid] crass bastards because I work really hard and never treat myself..

I'll take those Russian ones then if you're not using them!

Do these in-ear headphones stay in your ears better than the 20 quid ones? Do they also collect ear wax that you have to jab out with a pencil every so often?

[The Boston Crab]

One major difference is the variety of tips and simply better design, angled into the ear, etc. I think the DBAs are unbelievably comfortable, even though they sit quite deep. The MDs don't have very long stems, so they sit kind of shallow in the ear.

As for my apparent turnaround on the DBAs, they're very very different to the MD, which simply can't compete for clarity, air and soundstage. You can pick out every single instrument and its exact location and all the air around it, they're very '3D'. Quick caveat, as I said, some of that delicate presence is lost when you're out and about. If you wear them with wire over the ear, the microphonics (i.e. cable vibration/noise) are almost nil but I don't like to wear earphones that way. Also, if you're somewhere quite loud, e.g. train, bus, that air gets a little invaded by the external hum of the world. Another point is that the bass (as they're balanced armature phones) is more 'natural' than most people are used to. Again, it's probably even more precise and textured than the MDs, you can really hear the shape of the plucked string reverberating but they don't have much physical presence. They sound like bass sounds without earphones, whereas many IEMs overcompensate and try to blow you away with raw wubble.

It's a question of taste. In a silent room, I might well choose the DBAs over the MDs for a lot of my music but for guaranteed brilliance, every time, in every environment, I'd go the MDs. They're also much more cohesive and 'musical'. Sometimes analytical phones can be a tiny bit fatiguing for some people because they demand your attention. The MD are like sinking into a hot bath.

Just a few thoughts. Anyway, it's all academic, there's no buying/selling on the forums!

[Crabwalk]

The Monster Miles Davis Headphones are 159.99 from Play.com in case anyone is interested. Half the price of most other vendors. Now I'm tempted...

(edit: Apologies - they're actually being sold through a new, unrated Play.com trader, so buyer beware...)