Saw 3D: The Final Chapter, aka Saw VII (Oh yes, there will be spoilers...)

[Spiteface]

Anyone else going to see this? I'm a big fan of the Saw films, so this has been one of the things I've been looking forward to since... the last one, actually.

Saw VI was something of a return to form for many people after the below-par Saw V (which I also liked), but it didn't deliver at the box office, which has led to claims from most involved that Saw 3D will be the final film in the series.  Quite frankly, what I've heard so far about the plot, and how Saw VI set things up, it would make sense for this story to end now.  One of the main stories going into this is basically Hoffman and Jill Tuck battling over the Legacy of John Kramer, aka the Jigsaw Killer.  Saw VI ended with Jill apparently trying to kill Hoffman, with an updated Reverse Bear Trap left to her in Jigsaw's will, along with the plans for William's game in Saw VI.  It's not really made clear why this was done, did Jigsaw want Hoffman out of the picture (remember he had Hoffman learn from him because was being blackmailed)? or was this finally Hoffman's "test" (as hinted at since Saw IV), to see if he was worthy of continuing Jigsaw's work.

The other part of Saw 3D's story, is the one that forms the main "game" of the film, and is possibly the thing that hold more fascination.

http://bobbydagen.com/

Bobby Dagen, a self-help guru who claims to be a survivor of a Jigsaw game, and has written a book about his experience.  He now runs a support group for other survivors, some of which appear in previous Saw films, such as Mallick from Saw V (one of the last two from Saw V's "Fatal Five" game), and Simone (from the beginning of Saw VI).  Talking of Survivors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KECZCT-7owk

Yes, this one finally reveals the fate of one Dr. Lawrence Gordon, from the very first film.  Seems to have an issue with how Dagen's proud to have survived Jigsaw's stuff. For those of you wondering how he got out after the first one without bleeding to death, this was revealed at San Diego Comic-con where the first 8 minutes were screened and it shows

Spoiler alert

a flashback sequence, as Jigsaw reveals himself to Adam (as seen in the first Saw), Dr. Lawrence Gordon crawls from the bathroom to find help. Along the way, he reaches a hot pipe and uses it to cauterize the wound on his leg.

[close]

.  There's also a trap that takes place in public as well.  A first in Saw.

More spoileriffic clips and things here:

http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/22177

So yes, I've read up on this A LOT, and will hopefully be going to see it tomorrow.  I'll probably be using this thread for any other Saw-based discussions as well...

[AsparagusTrevor]

I'm a fan, my wife's a fan, my mum and dad are fans and every Halloween we all go and see the latest Saw film. We've been watching the other films over the past few weeks to catch up on the now very intricate and confusing plot.

I can't really fault the first trilogy which I thought neatly wrapped up in the third film. When they continued I thought part 4 was still enjoyable with the twist of it running alongside part 3 was clever, but the main was quite uneven and the main character Rigg wasn't as engaging as previous protagonists, especially Marky Mark's brother in part 2. I'd say the fifth film was certainly the weakest, it was pretty much exposition from start to finish. I agree with what a lot of people say about 6 being a return to form, a decent main character and the traps (especially the roundabout) had some emotional weight to them harking back to the third part. It was good to see the smug Hoffman get his tested, which he managed to outsmart (yeah, with his mouth torn open, but still), so he deserves to continue being smug.

Even though I enjoy them and our Halloween tradition (which started as an excuse to get out of the house to avoid trick-or-treaters), I want the latest to be the last, and I hope they follow up on the promise and don't do a The Final Destination on us. I want a conclusion to the story and I think now is the right time. I'm sure they'll decide to carry it on once the numbers come in.

There's a very spoilerific clip from the new film doing the rounds, involves Hoffman and Jill. Avoid it!

[Spiteface]

So I saw it last night.  That Hoffman/Jill clip was exactly what I suspected.  As was the reason for Bobby Dagen's game (I think a lot of Saw fans had sussed he was lying about being a survivor to begin with anyway).

I'm trying not to spoil things until I know a few more people have seen it, but I liked how the ending brought the story full circle in a lot of ways, tying it back to Saw I.

Hoffman is a fucking badass.  I just loved the way it went back to the Saw VI ending.  And the fact that Jill saw him break through the window and escape the trap, explaining how she would know Hoffman survived.

Loved it.

Even though I enjoy them and our Halloween tradition (which started as an excuse to get out of the house to avoid trick-or-treaters), I want the latest to be the last, and I hope they follow up on the promise and don't do a The Final Destination on us. I want a conclusion to the story and I think now is the right time. I'm sure they'll decide to carry it on once the numbers come in.

I hear you.  I know money talks and all that, but there's really no way they can carry this on for an eighth film. This felt like the end, perhaps more so than Saw III actually did. If there's any more to tell, I hope it's just more footage in the "Director's Cut" DVD.

[madhair60]

Seeing it tonight, and I'm pretty psyched.

How's the 3D?

[Spiteface]

A bit "Final Destination" in places (too much shit flying towards the screen, I guess that's how it's supposed to be though), but otherwise fairly well done, I thought. They also took the time to make the re-used clips from previous films (the first film's ending is reused at the beginning) 3D so they'd fit in batter.

[AsparagusTrevor]

So I saw it last night.  That Hoffman/Jill clip was exactly what I suspected.

I'm guessing a dream or fantasy or something? Actually don't answer that yet! I had suspicions they wouldn't purposely spoil something so important and the clip wasn't what it seemed.

I'm psyched, can't wait til Sunday night.

[madhair60]

Ooh, nice.  Cheers Spiteface.

I do like a bit of Saw (obvious if you read the MS Paint comics thread[nb]This is not a plug.[/nb]), and I'm sure this movie will not disappoint.

Saw V was shit, mind.  All of them are a little bit shit, but I appreciate that they're making an effort - however tortured[nb]No pun intended[/nb] - to tie them all together.

[AsparagusTrevor]

I watched it last night, I was satisfied by some stuff, disappointed by others.
I'll use spoilers for people who haven't seen it yet...


The Good:

Spoiler alert

• Hello Dr Gordon!!

• The scene that was doing the rounds on the internet, Jill's trap thankfully turned out to be a dream, it was too OTT and daft. Her real death was much better, and nice to see the Reverse Bear-Trap properly going off even though it was sad to see her die such a horrific death.

• The Car trap was awesome! The public trap was a good idea, shame the idea wasn't expanded on.

• Bobby was an interesting character, and the lying about being a Jigsaw survivor then being made an actual Jigsaw victim was a good angle. The support group was a nice callback to previous films' characters, it would've been nice to see some of the other survivors there too though (Julie Benz for example, if the dude with the split arm survived surely she would've too).

• Traps were decent enough, it was nice listening to the audience reactions. One of the best was when there was loud collective gasp from when Bobby was hoisting himself up the chains by his hooked pecs, and his skin finally tore.

• The Brazen Bull trap disturbed me. Seeing Bobby's cute-as-a-button wife slowly reduced to a bald, charred corpse wasn't pretty. I suppose that's a pro rather than a con, since that was probably the reaction they were going for.

• Some of the 3D was great and added some nice depth. I felt actually nauseous at the trap with the missing floor, the effect of height was so realistic.

• Hoffman's really grown on me over the last two films. His infiltration of the police station, hiding in the bodybag then going all Solid Snake on the people in the building to get to Jill was great, cementing his place in the badass museum.

• Dr Gordon taking Hoffman's hacksaw away, then afterwards him looking fondly at his very rotted severed foot still in the shackle.

• I felt mostly satisfied with the ending except my points below...

[close]

The Bad:

Spoiler alert

• The ending left the possibility to continue the series if they want. I would've preferred something a bit more 100% certain, without-a-doubt FINAL. Three pig-masked people but only one was revealed at the end? One sign of a possible angle to continue the series with?

• Reducing Jill to the roll of horror-movie bimbo. She's always come across as smart and strong-minded, it was a bit poor to see her mainly running and hiding and waiting for her demise.

• The 3D wasn't always taken advantage of, some scenes still felt a bit flat.

• The aforementioned brazen bull coming together piece by piece seemed like something out of a Transformers film, jarringly out of place.

• The main cop dude, Gibson I think he was called. Terrible acting, terrible character.

• Tobin Bell was hardly in the film. Had like two very short flashback scenes and a videotape or two. I know his character died four films ago, but that hasn't affected his screen-time in the previous films. He strangely had top billing too!

• I got a bruise on my knee from my wife squeezing it when the pig-masked trio popped up at the end.

• Machine-gun turret?!?

[close]

All in all I enjoyed it, felt glad the story had finally come to an end, and also a bit sad. In my opinion it's certainly the best long-running horror series, and I hope they let it lie as it is.

Another point, it's funny to see how much graphic gore they can get away with now, with the theatrical cuts. They release the uncut version on DVD every film, and it seems the stuff they had to cut ends up being milder than the stuff they get away with in the following film. Stuff like the

Spoiler alert

reverse bear-trap going off

[close]

would've been cut if it'd happened in the first movie!

[thugler]

All in all I enjoyed it, felt glad the story had finally come to an end, and also a bit sad. In my opinion it's certainly the best long-running horror series

You are CRAZY.

[AsparagusTrevor]

You're crazy more like. You! Yeah.

But really, name another horror series that was half-decent and had as many as 7 films? Nightmare on Elm Street? Two or three of them were good, rest shit. Friday the 13th, it's questionable if any were actually good. Halloween? Two or three decent ones. Hellraiser isn't even about the same story any more. I've enjoyed all the Saw films.

[SavageHedgehog]

The Saw series is interesting in so far as it seems to have been the first horror series crafted after producers and directors had got a handle (in a post-interenet age) on what a sizable number of horror fans disliked about the progression of previous famous horror series. Instead of getting increasingly tongue-in-cheek, the films have almost no direct humour and have developed a pretty self-important "mythology", instead of having a non-existant continuity the films have a near-obsessive dedication to continuity to the extent that by the later films it's actually pretty difficult for casual viewers to have any idea what is going on half the time, instead of having invincible characters who come back from the dead the main character actually died for reals half way through the series (p.s. spoilers) etc.

There's certainly a hell of a lot wrong with these films, but I have enjoyed them and I'm certainly glad there was an annual horror franchise around while I was young enough to justify being into that kind of nonsense. I look forward to seeing this one when I get a chance, though I suspect I'm not going to like the ending (if it's what I think it is).

[thugler]

You're crazy more like. You! Yeah.

But really, name another horror series that was half-decent and had as many as 7 films? Nightmare on Elm Street? Two or three of them were good, rest shit. Friday the 13th, it's questionable if any were actually good. Halloween? Two or three decent ones. Hellraiser isn't even about the same story any more. I've enjoyed all the Saw films.

Two or three were good yes.

That's more than perhaps the first one being fairly novel at best, then the rest being more and more boring rehashes. It's incredibly successful, but I don't think any of the films stand up to the two or three good flicks in the franchises with a bunch of sequels. Plus it's repeated itself like no other. At least Nightmare and halloween tried to mix it up a bit. The quality and influence of the films you mention absolutely dwarf the saw series. To me saw was always just a flashy gorier take on stuff like seven/cube/final destination.

[AsparagusTrevor]

In my opinion all of the Saw films are decent, some less so than others of course, but I know there's a lot of people who aren't fans, same with anything really. Apparently it's officially the most successful horror franchise, so it must be drawing in the numbers at least.

I agree the series is not so groundbreaking and influential as the likes of NOES but I respect the Saw filmmakers for doing what they do, managing to create yearly entries under studio pressure and still keeping a complex but coherent story running through.

The impact of Freddy and the like were diminished in sequels and marketing which has always been a peeve of mine to see one of my favourite horror icons reduced to a bad jester. I hope to god we don't see Jigsaw rapping any time soon...

[madhair60]

All the Saw films except the awful fifth instalment were enjoyable - the first and third in particular stood out.

All of the Friday 13th movies are awful, except for Jason Goes to Hell, which is alright.  Oh, and the remake, which managed the rare feat of a remake eclipsing the quality of the original - though F13th is so risibly dull, it barely took effort.

Nightmare, though, is great.  Even the shit ones like Dream Child still maintain some visual interest, and there's at least one inventive scene in each film.  Except the remake which was cuntrot.

Freddy Vs Jason is obviously awesome.

[Spiteface]

In true Horror franchise tradition, when they say it's the last one, you shouldn't always believe them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWgtnDZv9Nc

Yup, Costas Mandylor is up for Saw VIII.

I'd rather they take next year off, though, if another one could be done.

[SavageHedgehog]

Well considering he's probably going to have to retreat to DTV action films otherwise, it's not surprising he'd be up for it. I think he's great though, he looks and acts like the missing Stallone brother. That should be the final plot twist.

The most unconvincing "final" was for the Children of the Corn series. They used it on part 2! What did they take us for?

[variant]

I agree with pretty much everything AsparagusTrevor said in the spoilers above - except his other half didn't squeeze my knee.

I did enjoy 7 but I saw 6 the night before and thought that was much better.

Spoiler alert

Not enough Jigsaw/John in this one for me, Gibson was an awful actor - glad to see him shot to ribbons - and I didn't like the 3 people in pig masks at the end - it left to much of a question mark over who the other two were

[close]

Interesting that someone mentioned how the Saw franchise avoided humour as I thought this one started to include elements of it. In particular

Spoiler alert

the "safe house" speech which then garnered a big laugh from the audience when the dvd turned up straight after

[close]

Oh and yes

Spoiler alert

the car trap was awesome. possibly one of my favourites of the whole series

[close]

[thugler]

I'm fairly sure I've seen all of the saw films up to this point, but I remember almost nothing from them. The only memorable trap was the one with rotting pigs. Otherwise they all blur into one. I vaguely remember the second one being in a house. And one of the recent ones having some topical bits about medical insurance. Truly though, some of 'the most boring and formulaic horror fare I've ever seen. Granted it's still better than Friday 13th.

[Rolf Harris]

Interesting that someone mentioned how the Saw franchise avoided humour as I thought this one started to include elements of it. In particular

Spoiler alert

the "safe house" speech which then garnered a big laugh from the audience when the dvd turned up straight after

[close]

Especially with his awful 'crazy crazy' dialogue just before.

[The Boston Crab]

I really found that cop incredibly engaging, he was such a mish-mash of cliche and pantomime. The voice was perfect, too. no human speaks like that in reality. Perfect.

I really enjoyed seeing this in the cinema, haven't watched a horror at the flicks since The Exorcist re-release in about '98. Good fun to see and feel a load of people squirming and gasping in shock. I had a good time. That said, the hook trap is still very much with me, I keep wincing involuntarily whenever I remember it. Truly awful.

I've not seen all the films, just raced through a couple last week as my girlfriend is a fan but I reckon it's good to see a relatively consistent knockabout franchise which doesn't descend into farce/self-parody.

[SavageHedgehog]

It was reasonably entertaining and I'm glad I saw it, but after a first viewing I'd say I liked it the least of the lot. It seemed the cheesiest of the lot to me, I guess they wanted to make something more mainstream to try and reach out beyond the series' core audience. It also felt messy and rushed, with the main storyline/"game" not really fitting in with the bits that carried on from Part VI. Maybe I just wanted more Hoffman; I hope Mandaylor gets a new DTV action film every three months now just like Seagal etc.

[Spiteface]

This amused me greatly:

http://www.nme.com/movies/news/children-see-saw-3d-at-megamind-screening-after/197758

Most likely an improvement over what they had paid to see.

[Glebe]

I really found that cop incredibly engaging, he was such a mish-mash of cliche and pantomime. The voice was perfect, too. no human speaks like that in reality. Perfect.

Agreed. It was absolutely awful and hilarious. Some great nasty moments, though.

[Spiteface]

I agree with pretty much everything AsparagusTrevor said in the spoilers above - except his other half didn't squeeze my knee.

I did enjoy 7 but I saw 6 the night before and thought that was much better.

Spoiler alert

Not enough Jigsaw/John in this one for me, Gibson was an awful actor - glad to see him shot to ribbons - and I didn't like the 3 people in pig masks at the end - it left to much of a question mark over who the other two were

[close]

For the record, word of god has it that

Spoiler alert

The other people in the pig masks with ol' Larry Gordon were Brad and Ryan, the two survivors from the buzzsaw trap near the beginning of the film

[close]

I bought the Blu Ray yesterday.  Either I got a faulty disc or my player was overheating or summat, because the sound was crackling and slowing down something fierce towards the end, but I enjoyed seeing it again for the first time since the cinema release last year.  Far from the best in the series, probably the weakest one, but I still maintain it's nowhere near as bad as some (such as the majority folks at houseofjigsaw.com) would have you believe.

I do not have the means to watch in in 3D, but it works just fine in 2D anyway, excessive shit flying in and out of the screen aside.  Further thoughts:

Spoiler alert

Hoffman is still a badass, and I just love the aftermath of the reverse bear trap from Saw VI, from the moment he calmly gets out of the control room, gets a massive wad of tissue paper to soak up his blood and calmly walks off, beartrap in hand to his lair, to plot out Bobby's game.

Talking of Bobby's game, this is something that has bugged me the more I thought about it since I saw it last year.  We are to believe that Hoffman is carrying this one out, AFTER Jill Tuck just tried to murder him.  That makes no sense, and the fact that he's even doing it negates the whole "unfinished business" aspect of what William's game actually was.  If those two things were swapped around it'd make a bit more sense to me.  Or even have it so say, Gordon, as a genuine former survivor, is carrying out this game on John's behalf, as the the only "apprentice" who actually learned the lesson from John.

Talking of Gordon, I also liked the deleted scene with Bobby first showing up at the support group and Dr Gordon greeting him, again, would have added a bit more to the history and the extent of Gordon's continuing involvement here.

Oh, and I noticed the morning TV show Bobby appears on is called Daybreak.  Why can't Chiles and Bleakley talk to people who claim to have skewered their pecs with hooks in order to survive?

Not enough John/Jigsaw, even with the extended/deleted scenes - he only shows up in an extended cut of him finding Gordon in the opening sequence, and listening to a bit of the commentary made it even worse when it was mentioned one idea was to show Jigsaw and Gordon in the crowd during the Buzzsaw trap, therefore making it even clearer that Gordon was in fact aiding him and there was some kind of bond between the two.  His involvement at the end is still a bit out of nowhere.

Gibson still sucks.

Jill, who was a strong character in Saws V and VI is almost reduced to a slasher victim in TFC, which disappoints me. That said, I did get a kick out of Hoffman smashing her head into a table - "YOU! FUCKING! CUNT!" - because lets face it, that's exactly the reaction to have.

Poor Joyce Dagen.  One of the few truly innocent victims in the series.

[close]

I still deep down, refuse to accept this is the last one though.  I think it's just that most horror franchises lie about that stuff anyway.  Maybe a reboot in a few years...

[SavageHedgehog]

I liked it much more at home than at the cinema, probably because I knew what to expect in terms of silly plot twists, character screen time, unresolved threads etc.  Also I was rather disappointed by the, er, rather flat 3D first time round. Not an issue here, and I'd even say watching it in 2-D revealed a fairly good-looking film, and I could see where some of the extra money went (besides 3-D cameras). Still, hearing about what they were planning suggests they wasted a lot of potential too. They cut down two films into one (I seem to recall they were actially planning another three, but never mind), and from the sound of it they should have been more careful about what they cut out, it even sounds like they made some bad choices between the final draft and filming. Even a couple of the deleted scenes would have seriously helped. The plot twist, which seems like lazy fan pandering in the finished film, might have made some kind of sense (at least by Saw standards) the way they planned it. They also only vaguely hinted at what the survivor group and the outdoor trap were actually supposed to be leading to. Heck, I even think the poster (the one with them building a Michael Jackson History-esque satatue of Jigsaw) was inspired more by their unused ideas than by anything in the finished film!

Still, despite it all it's a decent horror flick, which is more than I can say for [Insert some film no one would object to]

This may make me a rather tragic case, but I would definitely be interested in another one, especially if they used some of the left-over stuff from the original finale. Hell, this is one franchise where making a direct to video sequel wouldn't harm it production value wise (and it would be oddly apt, given that the original Saw was intended to be a DTV film)

[thecuriousorange]

Any excuse post this:

Jigsaw falls

[thecuriousorange]

I still deep down, refuse to accept this is the last one though.  I think it's just that most horror franchises lie about that stuff anyway.

No. You can always believe them.

Friday the 13th (1980)   
Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981)   
Friday the 13th Part III (1982)   
Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984)   
Friday the 13th: A New Beginning (1985)   
Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives (1986)   
Friday the 13th Part VII: The New Blood (1988)
Friday the 13th Part VIII: Jason Takes Manhattan (1989)   
Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday (1993)   
Jason X (2002)   
Freddy vs. Jason (2003)