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Deus Ex

Started by uglybob1986, November 19, 2010, 01:04:34 PM

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uglybob1986

It's been knocking about for a while now but I havn't seen anyone discussing this on here



Sooo... any thoughts?

Feel free to discuss the previous games too!

Zetetic

Gah, I was going to start this!

Gameplay Trailer

Looks good (augmentations to be able to lift a box!). Also Eurogamer had an interview which boded well. I'm even thinking that the silly melee moves will be alright.

Likely to be better than 2 (which isn't exactly a high barrier), unlikely to be as novel as the first.

Tokyo Game Show Trailer
Plot might even be sufficiently silly but enjoyable.

Big Jack McBastard

It does look quite pretty, a bit Blade Runner-ish.

Played the first two to death and back, I remember playing the original for the first time and realising that, on occasion, it had that glorious feeling of getting away with murder (not necessarily literally) if you so chose to take it and had the skill to back it up.

I'd like to see a lot more of that sort of action, the opportunity to subvert or alter the situation to your advantage, switching sides as seemingly right on groups become either morally reprehensible or take a severe dislike to you. Sneaking your way trough a whole building, or blunderbussing the lot while a variety of factions, their hands at your back, push for their agenda to be the one you follow.

Most importantly it needs to be only partially linear, a relatively open world and locations are a must, not just mission 1, mission 2, mission etc.. Many methods of completing objectives, a reasonably intelligent, though not all-seeing, AI (Invisible War was far too easy due to the spazzyness of the enemies) and a bit more in the way of equalising the action with some RPG elements which are so often overlooked on consoles set within a proper headfuck story-line which keeps you engaged, if a bit confused. A bit of reading (some in-game books and papers) to give it some setting also wouldn't hurt.

I played the first on the PC and the second on console and those platforms worked well for what they were, the original being lengthy, sedate in places and convoluted (in a good way) but punctuated with 'Shitting hell!' moments that forced you to prepare and use a bit of sense rather than just wading in. In short, it had personality, albeit one with squiffy face and a dodgy accent.

The second was a lot shorter, action packed but less worldly, loosing the skills and weapon mods made it worse and better all at once. The characters were better acted but less developed and motivations and morality in your decisions were blurred making outcomes varied, but a bit soulless. Though it did capture some of the charm of the original it didn't pour a great deal more into the mix.

Zetetic

As above!

Deus Ex's wonder wasn't that you had a great deal of choice in what you did (as regards moral choice), but entirely in how you did it. Your objectives were set, but your methods weren't. The second utterly failed to capture that. Part of that is making a sufficiently open world, and part of the first game's success was also making that world seem believable (despite the ropey acting and mediocre graphics).

(I probably need to revisit it, but wasn't the only real main-story choice you had the one at the end? Otherwise, you really were just a pawn, but again the situation was sufficiently interesting and convincing for that not to matter.)

Human Revolution seems to at least be heading towards the the right balance of FPS/RPG. I too hope there'll be newspapers and pretentious tomes lying about the place.

(I wonder if they're going to touch upon many of the issues of it being a prequel. The augmentations being mechanical and all, in the manner of Navarre and Gunter, really should be relatively rubbish, but that wouldn't be very fun.
Spoiler alert
According to WP, the plot culminates in the creation of UNATCO, so it might be interesting enough.
[close]
)

knight123

Bought the first two for under 3 quid on the steam sale today, bargain!

Hollow

This isn't by Ion Storm though is it? History tells me for that reason alone this will be bad. Although I dont want that to happen, I think the first Deus Ex is the best game ever made.

VegaLA

Even after viewing that trailer it was still lodged in my mind that this was 'Syndicate', which a friend of mine showed me on the Amiga around 93. Are the two franchises similar?

Still Not George

In mood, but not in playstyle or storyline.

Famous Mortimer

I'm playing through it for the first time now. It's a bit confusing, but maybe I'm just not playing it right. Am I supposed to just try and sneak past everyone? Or is that encouraged?

Big Jack McBastard

You can get through the whole game only killing 2 people, if you're L33t H4Rdk0r3!

Rampages are entirely possible but it's good to be prepared with stealth kit should something unexpected turn up.

madhair60

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on November 26, 2010, 07:11:06 PM
I'm playing through it for the first time now. It's a bit confusing, but maybe I'm just not playing it right. Am I supposed to just try and sneak past everyone? Or is that encouraged?

However you want.  That's the beauty of it.

At first though, you should probably get your stealth on.

God fucking damnit, Deus Ex is one of the best games ever.  I'd post reasons but I'm too busy replaying it.

Mister Six

Yrah, basically do whatever feels good. But choose your nano upgrades accordingly.

Famous Mortimer

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed right at the beginning, because you get dropped right in it, or maybe I'm just immensely bad at this sort of game. But I will persevere!

Mister Six

I felt much the same. It's totally the opposite of how games these days work. But the beauty of it is that there isn't a 'wrong' way to complete a level. Just don't die and you'll be fine. The game adapts according to how violent, sneaky, etc you are.

Big Jack McBastard

Oh and for gods sake always get weapon mods when you can, they handle like a 4 year old with an AK otherwise.

NoSleep

Quote from: VegaLA on November 26, 2010, 04:43:48 PM
Even after viewing that trailer it was still lodged in my mind that this was 'Syndicate', which a friend of mine showed me on the Amiga around 93. Are the two franchises similar?

I figure JC Denton's leather coat and shades are a homage to Syndicate. I have Syndicate on the Atari Jaguar but have yet to play it, although I remember playing a few rounds of it on a friend's Megadrive(?) quite a few years back and enjoying the gameplay.

I've played throught the (cut down) PS2 version of Deus Ex a couple of times, and have meant to try the Mac version, but it doesn't seem to be compatible with this machine.

NoSleep

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on November 26, 2010, 07:11:06 PM
I'm playing through it for the first time now. It's a bit confusing, but maybe I'm just not playing it right. Am I supposed to just try and sneak past everyone? Or is that encouraged?

Did you jump straight into the game or have you done the training first? The training level might give you a few useful clues to gameplay.

SetToStun

Quote from: Big Jack McBastard on December 04, 2010, 10:53:38 PM
Oh and for gods sake always get weapon mods when you can, they handle like a 4 year old with an AK otherwise.

This. This is one of the most important pieces of advice you'll get. And always get a consistent set of bio-mods - don't try half stealth and half combat; it's out of balance and you'll come a cropper.

Spoiler alert
Also, I'll never forget the first time I got to Liberty Island. I had a mooch round and got killed because I tried to take on all the guards in open combat. With a stun prod, basically. The next time, I weaponed up from the crates in the water and decided to try to sneak around a bit. I went into the park exactly the same way, stuck to the same shadows at the beginning, and ended up dead because this time there were some pigeons there, I moved too close to them, they all flew off at once and the commotion attracted two guards. I got them, but only at the expense of attracting others. Damn, that game has one of the best opening levels ever - you learn so much so quickly.
[close]

samadriel

Wow, I've played the opening island countless times and I've never had the pigeon thing happen.  Neat.

SetToStun

It doesn't follow a pattern - they just wander around, sometimes singly and sometimes in flocks. I just love the way environmental factors can alter the way the game plays - it's a fantastic addition.

Still Not George

#20
Cos of you buggers I just bought GOTY Edition on Steam. Time to revisit it...

edit: Wow, you're right, this first level is a lot harder than I remember.

Zetetic

RPS have put up a couple of articles:
One, Two

Sounds like it's going to be lovely.

wheatgod


nrgroom

This looks like it could be really good.

I adored the original, on PC, but could never get the second one to work (I think it was my ageing PC and lack of graphics card).

It might just persuade me to upgrade to one of them new-fangled PS3/XBOX 360 thingys, although I do much prefer mouse/keyboard to controller.

I don't know much about PCs - is it gonna be possible to upgrade my PC (Dell Dimension 3100, about 7 years old) to be able to play the new one, or am I going to be better off just buying a console ?


Lt Plonker

Cut-scene kill?

:(

But yeah, nice. Must dig out and finish the original. One of the very few games I've played that felt like I was shaping the story in a way no one else was.

SetToStun

Quote from: nrgroom on March 22, 2011, 08:28:21 PMI adored the original, on PC, but could never get the second one to work (I think it was my ageing PC and lack of graphics card).

If you mean Invisible War, you inadvertantly saved yourself a few hours of utter torment; it was a game that was average at best, but compared to the brilliance of the original it felt like a total betrayal.

As for the upcoming game:

Quote from: nrgroom on March 22, 2011, 08:28:21 PM
It might just persuade me to upgrade to one of them new-fangled PS3/XBOX 360 thingys, although I do much prefer mouse/keyboard to controller.

You are me, etc. etc.

uglybob1986


Little Hoover

Well I decided to get this (and finally got steam installed after all this time, long overdue) It's a weird combination of feeling quite dated in some aspects and yet still ahead of it's time in others.

I still find it weird that the mouse and keyboard combination is apparently so natural and intuitive for some though. I'm getting used to it, and there's aspects of this game where you want a keyboard, but a controller still seems more natural to me. And the first FPS's I played were on PC.

hpmons

I'm going to write some thoughts, as if that there is a leaked version and as if I've played some of it.  A "first impressions" post, I'll add more when I've played more.

I only played about half an hour of the original Deus Ex (because I tried to be shooty instead of stealthy, and realised I can't shoot to save my life), so I can't comment on whether its better or worse, but I've really enjoyed it so far.  Even the difficulty levels are cute ("Tell me a story", "Give me a challenge", "Give me Deus Ex"). 

It's dialogue system is quite interesting - the NPCs will react different each time you play through.  Example: a hostage-taker will say slightly different things each time, which will hint at what's the appropriate response (sometimes its "empathetic", sometimes its "reason", and if you hover over a choice it will sum up roughly what you'll say).  So in one game empathetic may result it him freeing a hostage, in another it will make him blow everyone up.  It may sound forced, but when you play through it it works well, and its somewhat satisfying when you judge their emotions correctly.  The hacking mini-game is nice too, fairly simple but not annoying (like virtually every other mini-game I've played...).

As far as the missions go, I've only played through one main one and part of a side one, but already I can see there's plenty of ways to go about things and plenty of CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCES.  I've been playing as a purely sneaky person, haven't shot anyone and have only even taken down a few.  It's fun finding hidden vents and what not, though I was amused that in a side mission I spent ages
Spoiler alert
going through a vent, taking down a few guys and generally taking a while, then on my return journey I went through the sewers which took about two minutes.  I don't think I got any xp bonuses via the sewers though
[close]
.  My friends says there's a bigger focus on quests this time and its somewhat more structured, but I'm not sure either of us could really comment much since we haven't explored all of it.  I believe there is still lethal/non-lethal differences, in that it depends who will ask you for help (though I've only been non-lethal so far, so I can't comment).  The AI varies - in the first mission they are quite dumb, but some later will notice environmental changes and investigate them.

Alas my laptop isn't good enough to run it particularly well, I'm on 800x600 and all the lowest settings and its still not perfect. Also it crashes on some of the menus (this only seems to happen to me though) which is why I haven't got much of it done yet.

Zetetic

#29
Quote from: hpmons on July 02, 2011, 12:51:38 PM
I only played about half an hour of the original Deus Ex (because I tried to be shooty instead of stealthy, and realised I can't shoot to save my life)
You probably weren't helped by JC being entirely unable to hold a gun still at the the start of the game.

Also, thanks for posting about it. Eidos and SquareEnix have been remarkably nice about the leak, they don't seem to care about people posting impressions of it.