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The Path and other art games

Started by Phil_A, November 27, 2010, 01:25:46 PM

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Pedro_Bear

Fair enough, I just don't trust people to be honest about promoting art any more, especially galleries. That's what was so awesome about Emin's last shows, the idea that she'd gamed the corrupt system, and underneath it all she was a professional artist doing her job.

We don't have to be told something is funny to unlock the humour, we don't have to be told something is delicious to enjoy the flavour, and so on. Why should art be so poorly executed we have to be primed to reveal it? Demand more, dammit! The beauty of game art is that we appreciate it as we perceive it; that's like laughing unexpectedly, or biting into warm bread on a cold day. Great experiences that don't demand a three page press release telling us how relevant or whatever the thing is, and certainly not handed out beforehand.

Fucking Tate Modern, all that space, all that light, all those words, and no art. How did we fuck something like that up? It's like The Baltic up here, is it satire? Might as well be. It hasn't displayed any art for about two years. I've very sorry that your country persecuted you and killed your family and that, but you're not an artist, get out. You don't go into the University and commandeer a whole lab when you're not a scientist. Become a public speaker or a journalist, you're good at typing. Become a typist. The diddy little Laing in town which gets fuck all budget does a much better job promoting art. No press release bullshit, gallery wings given over to amateurs and schoolkids, none of this casing the mark, it treats patrons like adults capable of making their own choices and having their own opinions. No I don't need my pills, but I'll have a cup of tea if you're making one. Hrmph.


Quote from: HappyTree on December 03, 2010, 03:10:33 PM
She was 6 years old. Aesthetically it could be an impressionist's work. But does she have anything to say? Perhaps if we accept the existence of a collective unconscious (Jung) then anyone of any age could tap into it. If we don't then does a child of 6 have the mental faculties to draw together significant meaning?

Children have experiences well worth communicating. Most lack artisan skill to express ideas, that's all. When they hit the mark they do so unambiguously, it's quite umistakable the sorts of thing they pick up on often out of naivety, or being underestimated. Little outsiders experiencing the world as they find it. Savants are even more out-of-step. Again, there's no reason why they can't produce art.[nb]Getting kids aged 8-10 to collaboratively paint their dreams is awesome. I get the brats I babysit to do that every now and again. My previous flatmate was an artist, and the kids would describe really imaginative stuff, she'd sketch it out. They'd then turn into the World's Most Terrifying And Vocal Art Critics correcting every last detail of the sketch, and then we'd all attempt to transfer the ideas onto really long canvas board. The thing about kids who haven't been told how difficult something is, is that they are utterly fearless, and very receptive to directions. So my friend would say something like "paint it the big rat's eyes first, like in the sketch" and they'd just do it, like it was nothing. That's what we lose as adults, this can-do attitude. One of the paintings they did got entered into a local schools' exhibition and was shown at The Laing. It was a really good one, too, it had a really creepy dream ambience.[/nb]


A friend of ours collects animal paintings, you know, by monkeys and elephants and parrots, that sort of thing? It's a neat collection, some of them are quite pretty, but none are art. Maybe to other monkeys?

Bowerbirds are amazing, however: [noembed]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPbWJPsBPdA[/noembed]

Quote from: Pedro_Bear on December 03, 2010, 08:22:24 PM
Children have experiences well worth communicating...When they hit the mark they do so unambiguously, it's quite umistakable the sorts of thing they pick up on often out of naivety, or being underestimated...experiencing the world as they find it....The thing about kids who haven't been told how difficult something is, is that they are utterly fearless, and very receptive to directions...That's what we lose as adults, this can-do attitude.

Without doubt, this is one of the most fascinating and inspiring things about teaching. I'm currently trying to develop a more implicit approach with a group who are used to being explicitly spoon-fed 'knowledge' because, as a lower set, it's been decided that "they just need to know it". In fact, when given the opportunity to conceive their own frameworks and decode patterns and learning methods, they come up with these incredible ideas and associations that I may never have considered and certainly wouldn't have suggested as aides-memoire, for example.

Somewhat abstract anecdote but I'm sure you get the sense.

mcbpete

Quote from: Zetetic on December 03, 2010, 11:05:22 AM
Most recent example I can think of, which I referred to earlier is Activate the Three Artefacts and Then Leave. It's very short (at least to get a grip on what the point of it is), very small and free. Nice little excursion into perception, navigation and the modality of the senses; manages to be an experimentation with medium itself, and still interesting beyond that.
Thanks so much for this link man, I've never seen that game before. I've only found 2 of the artefacts and need to head off to sleep now, but the aesthetic of that game was fantastic. Dark and alienating without being overt, and a some points (I can't quite thing of a word that means this) has like the feeling of being inside a womb - content yet restrained and wanting to escape the surroundings. Great use of focal points as well, I've never seen a game use that mechanic before ...

Mister Six

#63
Fuck! How did I miss out on two-and-a-half pages of discussion? Apologies for replying to stuff that's a bit old, but...

Quote from: HappyTree on November 30, 2010, 03:33:35 PM
I can see how, objectively, prejudging graphic novels as not being literature could be said to be wrong, however (a) I have never seen a comic book with the same complexity of theme and form as literature in standard book form

Then you haven't read From Hell, Watchmen, Maus, Black Hole, selected parts of Neil Gaiman's Sandman ('A Game of You' being a good example), Seven Miles a Second, The Fate of the Artist, Maus or any number of other comics that do extraordinary things with themes, metaphors, inter-textuality and the interplay between image and words. Or you have and you're objectively wrong.[nb]Strong words, but I mean them. Anyone denying that, say, Watchmen doesn't have the narrative, metaphorical, political and sociological depth of the best prose literature is wrong. Seriously. They're wrong.[/nb]

Quote(b) in order to be classed as literature a piece of work has to contain enough recognisable traits to conform to that type of definition.

For instance, you couldn't really write "hello" on a chewing gum wrapper and call it literature. That is an extreme example which has none of the characteristics of literature. So what could be debated is whether a graphic novel contains enough of a resemblance to the received canon of "literature" to be called such. As I said, I don't personally think an illustrated story does contain enough of that form of writing.

What about a play? Did Shakespeare write literature? Did it stop being literature as soon as it was performed? Do Alan Moore's famously baroque comic book scripts count as literature in a way that the finished books do not? Why was I taught about Samuel Beckett's 'Breath' in my English Literature classes?

Any art form that's broad enough to encompass Waiting for Godot, Shakespeare's sonnets, Sylvia Plath's 'Daddy', Of Mice and Men, The Canterbury Tales and House of Leaves is surely broad enough to include graphic novels? Paring it down to 'there's not enough writing' seems frustratingly reductive to me.

madhair60

Awwwwgfhgfgghghhggh *Drools* You've just reminded me that "A Game of You" is a thing that exists

fuck yeah the world we live in

edit: Also, I hate the term "graphic novels".  There's no visual distinction from comics, and no shame in describing them as such.

Mister Six

#65
Quote from: madhair60 on December 06, 2010, 08:00:04 PM
Awwwwgfhgfgghghhggh *Drools* You've just reminded me that "A Game of You" is a thing that exists

fuck yeah the world we live in

edit: Also, I hate the term "graphic novels".  There's no visual distinction from comics, and no shame in describing them as such.

Useful when distinguishing between individual issues of a comic and collected editions, especially since 'trades' is a very outsider-unfriendly term.

EDIT: Oooh, I just remembered The Invisibles issue 'Best Man Fall'. I never fails to impress me whenever I read it.

For those that haven't, it's the life story of a guard who dies in the first issue, told non-chronologically, that visits most of the major themes in the series. It's very moving and spectacularly well written.

HappyTree

Quote from: Mister Six on December 06, 2010, 07:43:11 PM...you haven't read From Hell, Watchmen, Maus, Black Hole, selected parts of Neil Gaiman's Sandman ('A Game of You' being a good example), Seven Miles a Second, The Fate of the Artist, Maus or any number of other comics that do extraordinary things with themes, metaphors, inter-textuality and the interplay between image and words.

Yes you're right, I haven't read any of them. So I may indeed be wrong. Looking up a definition of the word "literature" gives examples of writing, none of which includes comics, but perhaps the definition is therefore outdated.

So the question then becomes "Is literature necessarily writing?" If not, then comics could well be literature. If so, they would have to have enough writing in them to qualify.

At the moment I would be happier saying that literature per se is writing and some of the deeper comics are art with literary elements. But my opinion is open to change.

madhair60

Quote from: Mister Six on December 06, 2010, 08:46:26 PM
Useful when distinguishing between individual issues of a comic and collected editions, especially since 'trades' is a very outsider-unfriendly term.

I would just say "comic collection" or "anthology", but I can see what you mean.

Mister Six

But something like, say, Blankets isn't a collection or an anthology. Hence the term 'original graphic novel'.

madhair60


Mister Six