"Benny Hill worked with Pete and Dud, and some of the Pythons..."

[Jake Thingray]

"...and wrote for THAT WAS THE WEEK THAT WAS...."

Honestly, this is the most spectacularly wrong assertion by anyone anywhere.

http://www.joblo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54446

Unsurprisingly, it was made on an American forum, but by an Australian prat. I'm almost tempted to register on there, to try to point out this ridiculous wires-crossing. The silly person mentions "the Goonies", not sure if that means the Goodies or the Goons, either way it's wrong. When Hill was in his "younger days", everyone mentioned save Milligan was still a kid or hadn't been born yet; and Milligan despised Hill, as Pauline Scudamore's biography shows. (Also, "Benidorm. Could be worse, it could be Benny Hill" in THERE'S A LOT OF IT ABOUT, and the story in the book HIS PART IN OUR LIVES of his, thoroughly reasonable in my view, ordering an audience member out when she said she liked Hill.) This buffoon also claims to have a recording of "Balham - Gateway To The South" and alleges it was "co-written and co-performed" by Hill; it was written by Frank Muir and Denis Norden, Hill might have been in the forgotten radio show it originated in, THIRD DIVISION, but is definitely not on Peter Sellers' record remake.

There's no way Hill would ever have written for TW3, he was already established and even more mainstream than the writers Uncle Ned favoured, journalists and contributors to campy 1950's stage revues. The kindest supposition would be that this 'FeydRautha' (should have stuck to sci-fi geek nonsense) got TW3 mixed up with THE FROST REPORT (as has often happened, to be fair) and got Hill mixed up with Ronnie Barker, hence the claim of involvement with Pythons etc., but Pete and Dud were never a part of that.

Perhaps this person will now claim that Jimmy Edwards wrote for NOT THE NINE O'CLOCK NEWS, and performed at the Comedy Store.

[Lfbarfe]

To be completely fair, that posting is over 7 years old. There are things I thought I knew 7 years ago, on which I have subsequently been corrected. Added to which, the poster might have been 12 or something at the time, and we all regurgitate half-remembered/misunderstood cobblers when we're that age. It is utter balls, though, and evidence of how you have to be very careful filtering information you get on the Internet.

Hill wasn't well liked by anyone, was he? He was fairly notorious for sitting in the audience at other comedians' shows with a notebook. That said, what I've seen of his early BBC work is a world apart from the latter-day Thames lechfests. Really clever, inventive use of television's technology - playing multiple characters before Stanley Baxter had really got going, etc.

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

He was fairly notorious for sitting in the audience at other comedians' shows with a notebook.

Really? Not that I'm doubting you because I know you know your stuff, but (at the risk of looking stupid) is that shorthand for "recycled others' ideas" or is it meant literally?  I find it hard to imagine Benny Hill actually doing that, and I've also heard the phrase used in relation to Barry Cryer.

[Jake Thingray]

Mark Lewisohn's biog FUNNY, PECULIAR (too good for its subject) confirms that Hill really did do the notebook stuff, to the annoyance of visiting American comics like Dick Shawn, and mentions he also took material from French and Continental acts like Robert Dhery, on the grounds that they were unlikely to be seen in Britain. In the brief chapter on Hill in his late 80's book COMEDY GREATS, Barry Took stated "I know of no professional scriptwriter who likes his work...Frankly, one piece of his work is much like another".

That forum post actually reminded me less of an uninformed kid than an inverted snob and utter pillock I vaguely knew fifteen years ago, when trying to make conversation in the pub shortly after Cook's death, he made reference to "when he worked with Benny Hill", and when I pointed out he never did, insisted that I couldn't tell him anything about Cook as "I used to watch his TV show every week, in the 60's, it used to end with him driving off in a car...". He'd somehow got Cook mixed up with Simon Dee, who wasn't a comedian, at any rate intentionally. He later came second in a dancing competition, and won a melon.

[SavageHedgehog]

That said, what I've seen of his early BBC work is a world apart from the latter-day Thames lechfests. Really clever, inventive use of television's technology - playing multiple characters before Stanley Baxter had really got going, etc.

I'm intrigued by his early work, I've heard him described as "the first comedian to really "get" television" (British comedian, anyway)

Would it be committing credability suicide twice in one go to say I like that Genesis video he did?

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

Mark Lewisohn's biog FUNNY, PECULIAR (too good for its subject) confirms that Hill really did do the notebook stuff, to the annoyance of visiting American comics like Dick Shawn, and mentions he also took material from French and Continental acts like Robert Dhery, on the grounds that they were unlikely to be seen in Britain. In the brief chapter on Hill in his late 80's book COMEDY GREATS, Barry Took stated "I know of no professional scriptwriter who likes his work...Frankly, one piece of his work is much like another".

Thanks.  I could imagine him nicking stuff, just not doing it so blatantly himself when he could have got others to do it for him.  I wonder if his "the rapist" sight-gag can be traced back further.

[Nik Drou]

Well, since we're talking wrong assertions, it's as good a reason as any to post this.

Carry On Columbus Channel 7 Australia TV promo with Alexei Sayle & Rik Mayall

[Lfbarfe]

I've also heard the phrase used in relation to Barry Cryer.

Cryer's just seen a lot of comedy and has a frighteningly good memory. When he tells someone else's gag, he'll tell you where/who he got the gag from. The story he tells against himself is walking into a green room at TV Centre and there's Milligan. Milligan, quick as a flash, throws himself against the wall, hands high as if ready to be frisked and shouts "OK Cryer, don't hurt me, just take the gags".

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

Cryer's just seen a lot of comedy and has a frighteningly good memory. When he tells someone else's gag, he'll tell you where/who he got the gag from. The story he tells against himself is walking into a green room at TV Centre and there's Milligan. Milligan, quick as a flash, throws himself against the wall, hands high as if ready to be frisked and shouts "OK Cryer, don't hurt me, just take the gags".

Lovely.  I thought Cryer seemed to command enough affection amongst his peers to make the calculated plagiarism accusation doubtful.  If memory serves, the slur came out of some spat Jimmy Tarbuck had with him.  There was supposedly some bad blood between them for a while before that, but I'm buggered if I can find any reference to it online now.  (If it was actually your book that I picked this up from I'll shuffle out of the forum quietly, but in the meantime I command you to contact your sources and stir the whole thing up again.)

[Lfbarfe]

No, it wasn't my book. Anyway, while I have a fair old measure of respect for Tarby as a pure and simple gag-teller, him accusing anyone of theft is a little bit rich considering the business with Terry-Thomas's diamond-studded cigarette holder, as referred to in Graham McCann's book Bounder. Trial report:

T-T in court rumpus (Daily Mirror, 21/4/1960, p7)

Comedian Terry-Thomas and a lawyer had a courtroom rumpus yesterday over the comedian's famous1ft-long gold and diamond cigarette holder.

Before the court —- at Liverpool — was another comedian, James Joseph Tarbuck, 20, of Queen's-drive, Liverpool, and Alan David Williams, 28, salesman, of Stockville-road, Liverpool.

Tarbuck was charged with "stealing the cigarette holder worth £2,000, and Williams with receiving and being an accessory after the fact.

Terry-Thomas, wearing an attractive suede waistcoat, gave his name as Thomas Terry Hoar-Stevens, of Queensgate Mews, Kensington, London.

He said he left the cigarette holder, which was insured for £2,000, in the dressing room of the Odeon Theatre, Liverpool,while he was on stage in a, midnight charity performance.

When he returned the holder had gone.

Mr. Harry Livermore, for Tarbuck, asked: "You use the cigarette holder for publicity purposes?"
"Terry - Thomas replied:"As a gimmick, yes. Until this case came up I don't think anyone thought it was diamonds and gold."

Mr. Livermore: This is a publicity stunt, claiming the cigarette- holder is worth £2,000 ?

Terry-Thomas: If it were it would have been easy to have had it made of gilt and glass. Then the famous Terry-Thomas brow creased and he exploded with, "Oh, how could you say such a thing?"

Mr. F. V. Renshaw, prosecuting, alleged that Tarbuck in a statement said: "I rang Terry-Thomas and he promised me a three-minute spot on the show, but by the finale I still hadn't been on.
"I was disgusted. I was walking out of the theatre when I saw the cigarette holder on the dressing table, and took it. I had it broken up and I was going to throw it away."

Williams was alleged to have handed the police two diamonds in a jewel box. The charge of receiving against Williams was dismissed. Williams and Tarbuck were sent for trial to the next Liverpool Crown Court - Tarbuck on the theft charge and Williams accused of being an accessory after the fact.

Both were allowed bail.

At the end of the hearing the magistrate ordered the value of £2,000 for the cigarette holder to be struck out of the charge. The prosecution said they would call evidence of the precise value at the trial.

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

No, it wasn't my book. Anyway, while I have a fair old measure of respect for Tarby as a pure and simple gag-teller, him accusing anyone of theft is a little bit rich considering the business with Terry-Thomas's diamond-studded cigarette holder, as referred to in Graham McCann's book Bounder. Trial report: [...]

They do, though, do they not, though?

I've got to get on to Bounder sharpish - McCann's a great biographer.  While we're on the subject, does the book mention the anecdote that's in Kingsley Amis's Memoirs about T-T feeling randy at the end of a party and going to have a word with a hotel porter.  This is during the filming of Lucky Jim.  I've never been able to fathom what the pay-off to the story means; perhaps McCann explains it.  (I'll recount it in full later if I need to.)

[ColonelVolestrangler]

Well, since we're talking wrong assertions, it's as good a reason as any to post this.

I can only assume that the 'Life of Brian' assertion is due to both films being produced by John Goldstone. Even so, it's still a bit of a stretch.

[Lfbarfe]

They do, though, do they not, though?

Cryer and Tarbuck? I wasn't aware of it until now. For what it's worth, Cryer speaks ill of nobody, even off the record. Oh no, I tell a lie. He really didn't like Wee Georgie Wood.

I've got to get on to Bounder sharpish - McCann's a great biographer.  While we're on the subject, does the book mention the anecdote that's in Kingsley Amis's Memoirs about T-T feeling randy at the end of a party and going to have a word with a hotel porter.  This is during the filming of Lucky Jim.  I've never been able to fathom what the pay-off to the story means; perhaps McCann explains it.  (I'll recount it in full later if I need to.)

"I must say I've come over most frightfully randy." No, that's in there, I'm pretty sure. As is "Faster, you fuckers". Not sure how much more McCann adds to the Amis version, though. In the case of 'randy', isn't it just that he's asking the night porter if he knows of any ladies of the night? It's been a while since I read Bounder. It's not his best work, I'm afraid. It's solid and workmanlike, and I'm glad there's any sort of T-T biography on the shelves, but he doesn't seem to have done his usual exhaustive round of relevant interviews. His Morecambe and Wise book and the Frankie Howerd book are just perfect. He's just done John Le Mesurier, hasn't he? I'm hoping that will have been a return to form.

[Ambient Sheep]

For what it's worth, Cryer speaks ill of nobody, even off the record. Oh no, I tell a lie. He really didn't like Wee Georgie Wood.

Didn't he recently have a sly dig at some modern comedian that's mainly not liked round here either?  Can't remember who, sorry to be so irritatingly vague.  Ricky Gervais?  Ross Noble?  Russell Howard?  I'm fairly sure I read about it on here, so someone should know.

[Lfbarfe]

Not sure, Ambient. He has bemoaned the way some modern comedians badmouth others, and said that the modern comedy scene can be brutal. At a guess, if he's had a go at anyone, it'll be for something like that.

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

They do, though, do they not, though?

Cryer and Tarbuck? I wasn't aware of it until now. For what it's worth, Cryer speaks ill of nobody, even off the record. Oh no, I tell a lie. He really didn't like Wee Georgie Wood.

Sorry Louis, that was just directed at Tarby the young scally, not Cryer - I was invoking the Harry Enfield Scousers catchphrase as spoken by Terry-Thomas.

I've got to get on to Bounder sharpish - McCann's a great biographer.  While we're on the subject, does the book mention the anecdote that's in Kingsley Amis's Memoirs about T-T feeling randy at the end of a party and going to have a word with a hotel porter.  This is during the filming of Lucky Jim.  I've never been able to fathom what the pay-off to the story means; perhaps McCann explains it.  (I'll recount it in full later if I need to.)

"I must say I've come over most frightfully randy." No, that's in there, I'm pretty sure. As is "Faster, you fuckers". Not sure how much more McCann adds to the Amis version, though. In the case of 'randy', isn't it just that he's asking the night porter if he knows of any ladies of the night? It's been a while since I read Bounder. It's not his best work, I'm afraid. It's solid and workmanlike, and I'm glad there's any sort of T-T biography on the shelves, but he doesn't seem to have done his usual exhaustive round of relevant interviews. His Morecambe and Wise book and the Frankie Howerd book are just perfect. He's just done John Le Mesurier, hasn't he? I'm hoping that will have been a return to form.

I'm waiting for the John Le Mes one in paperback - McCann's Dad's Army book was good.  Agree with you about his Morecambe & Wise biography, a much-needed alternative to Gary Morecambe's angles, no disrespect to him.

That Terry-Thomas party anecdote - maybe the explanation is as simple as you say, but the way the story's told in Amis's autobiography, something else is implied, I'm not sure what.  Here's the relevant bit (Theo is Theo Richmond, a film producer):

Suddenly [T-T] said, 'I'm terribly sorry, chaps, I don't want to break up the party, but I've come over most frightfully randy just in the last couple of minutes.'
   'Well, there's not much you can do about it now, Terry,' said Theo.
   'Or here,' I said.
   'Don't you believe it, old boy.  I'll just slip down and have a word with the hall porter.'
   The half-dozen of us took our breakfasts as a group in the hotel dining room.  The next morning Terry arrived a little later than the others, all teeth and spotted scarf, rubbing his hands festively.
   'Well, how did you get on last night, Terry?' I asked, thinking of him persuading the night porter of the North British Hotel to bring out his little black book.
   'Absolutely bloody marvellous, old boy.'
   'Bloody marvellous?' said Theo when the three of us were alone.
   'Yes, you see, before I could even tell the laddie what was on my mind he'd started showing me photographs of his grandchildren and what-not and after a bit of that I found all my desire had vanished and I went straight to bed and slept like a child.'  For me it took years, until the other day, for the penny to drop.

Italics in the original.  So Amis had already thought at the time that T-T was going to hire an amenable woman through the porter, but realised long after the event that T-T was implying something else altogether.  Beats me.

[Serge]

"Faster, you fuckers"

Dare I ask for the story behind this?

[Lfbarfe]

Dare I ask for the story behind this?

T-T telling the story of when he met the bloke who ran Telfer's the pork pie company. He asked if they had any systems in place to improve productivity. Telfer replied "Well, sometimes I walk around the factory and shout 'Faster, you fuckers' at them".

TCoU - Oh Christ, forgot about that. It's years since I read the Amis memoirs. Checking McCann, he seems to conclude that T-T did indeed go and procure some skirt, with whom he had a wild and tempestuous night, and that the "slept like a child" story was just a fob-off. The penny dropping seems to be Amis realising that T-T had not been deterred from his path in the slightest. Have you ever seen the surviving pilot episode of The Old Campaigner (think the series was junked, but the pilot was recovered a few years back)? I suspect it to be a fairly accurate picture of T-T on tour.

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

TCoU - Oh Christ, forgot about that. It's years since I read the Amis memoirs. Checking McCann, he seems to conclude that T-T did indeed go and procure some skirt, with whom he had a wild and tempestuous night, and that the "slept like a child" story was just a fob-off. The penny dropping seems to be Amis realising that T-T had not been deterred from his path in the slightest.

That does sound the likeliest explanation, T-T using ultra-refined irony to avoid being crassly explicit.  There was a time when I half-wondered whether something illicit with the night porter himself was being hinted at, but that doesn't ring true.

Have you ever seen the surviving pilot episode of The Old Campaigner (think the series was junked, but the pilot was recovered a few years back)? I suspect it to be a fairly accurate picture of T-T on tour.

Sadly no, but it sounds wonderful. (Online links seem to lead nowhere.)  I'm a sucker for anything Jonathan Cecil's in as well - favourite Wooster ever, Carmichael and Laurie notwithstanding.

[Lfbarfe]

Unfortunately for you, Jonathan Cecil (delightful actor, delightful man) is in the series, which doesn't survive. In the pilot, his part was played by Derek Fowlds, who is, naturally, no disgrace. I believe he was otherwise committed when it was picked up for the full run, so they recast.

[The Cloud of Unknowing]

Unfortunately for you, Jonathan Cecil (delightful actor, delightful man) is in the series, which doesn't survive. In the pilot, his part was played by Derek Fowlds, who is, naturally, no disgrace. I believe he was otherwise committed when it was picked up for the full run, so they recast.

No doubt loads of Jonathan Cecil's TV work is lost forever now.  We're back to a Kingsley Amis connection again - Cecil's father was Amis's Eng Lit lecturer at Oxford, complete with notoriously eccentric pronunciation: "Chauthah, Dvyden, Shellum, and Theckthpyum".

We need a Looks Familiar forum!

[Serge]

T-T telling the story of when he met the bloke who ran Telfer's the pork pie company. He asked if they had any systems in place to improve productivity. Telfer replied "Well, sometimes I walk around the factory and shout 'Faster, you fuckers' at them".

Ha! Thanks for that. I was trying to figure out some possibly sexually related scenario in which Terry-Thomas would shout that phrase, so I'm glad that I was so off-track.