Tron: Legacy

[falafel]

So I saw this on Saturday and it was good. Not great, but good. Visually amazing, quite spectacular. It was basically a bit of daft Tron fanfic but managed to be far, far better than that sounds. Might have something to do with all the money. And was anyone really hoping for anything different? Apart from the film not being made in the first place. For those people this at least is the second best of all possible worlds.

CGI Jeff remains uncanny but it's not a huge concern; in fact in the context of the Grid there's definite room for metatextual analysis on this point... But that's by the by. Mainly, it looks and sounds incredible and somehow manages not to piss on Tron's chips despite a totally contrived plot and by-the-numbers screenplay.

Top popcorn fare in a nutshell.


Also, perhaps the mumblings about Daft Punk's soundtrack (derivative, lazy, unaccomplished) are true in isolation; this is why I have avoided listening to it in advance; but in the context of the film it is quite brilliant. I would read it as nostalgic rather than derivative. The opening track, in combination with the visuals, is on a par with vintage Vangelis, and the whole soundtrack is filled with 80s synthpop references. Certainly doesn't sound Matrixish to me. Basically, like the rest of the film, it seems to adopt the tropes of 80s popular culture (music/film), and bombastically magnify them to the point of awesome near-parodic exuberance.

The whole thing is as dumb as 20 bags of hammers and filled with convenient plot twists and overcooked fan-pleasing bits (

Spoiler alert

fighter jets with light-bike trails, anyone?

[close]

), but I think that's why I enjoyed it so much.

The end.

[Gulftastic]

As an addict of the original video game, I love the original soundtrack. Do any of the familiar tunes appear in any fomr?

[Santa's Boyfriend]

I've heard the soundtrack in isolation (I haven't seen the movie yet - it isn't out yet is it?) and I actually thought it was very good.  But then I quite like Daft Punk.

[falafel]

The Oscillations thread is fairly bitchy about it.

Yes, I did recognise the main theme in there, although I am broadly unfamiliar with the details of the original soundtrack. As I said, it's basically glorified fanfic and I think that mixture of worshipful respect and indulgent wish-fulfilment extends to the score. You should find plenty to like.

It's not out yet - Saturday was a preview and the premiere was on Sunday. I got a free ticket to the preview at the very last minute and although I like the original I'm not a fanboy and am fully aware of its imperfections... In many ways this new one is the same. For me, most of the fun comes from the visuals and most of the concept is pretty half-baked but it doesn't really matter.

[sirhenry]

although I like the original I'm not a fanboy and am fully aware of its imperfections... In many ways this new one is the same. For me, most of the fun comes from the visuals and most of the concept is pretty half-baked but it doesn't really matter.

I probably am a fanboy and am fully aware of its imperfections, but it was the visuals of the original that made it such a stand-out film. Due to the limitations of technology and money it had a beautifully stripped-down-to-the-basics look where lines were used to imply/define shapes. All the clips that I've seen show the graphics to have been filled out until it looks like an entire movie made from the dodgy cgi fx of recent years. Sure you can see where the money went, but making it look 'realistic' goes against the basic style of the original.[nb]To be honest, I'm just miffed that it doesn't look like an animated Moebius story any more.[/nb] I suspect that I'll find that Speed Racer did it better, earlier, but I'll still have to watch it. At Imax.

[falafel]

Definitely doesn't look 'realistic', not to me at least, so don't worry about that. There's still something very alien about it which is done very well: a couple of missteps in

Spoiler alert

having real-word objects like books deliberately conspicuously placed in certain areas

[close]

but in their way even those do highlight the unreality of the visuals. It isn't really a spoiler, I don't think, but just in case, it's

Spoiler alert

set in the modern day so considering how computers have advanced it would be pretty jarring to have it look exactly the same - if you assume that the most advanced graphics of the day represent exactly what the grid looks like then the advanced aesthetic is just a logical progression.

[close]

But it is still emphatically about bright, clean lines, flares of light, decidedly polygonal shapes and vast amounts of cold dark space. When programs

Spoiler alert

die or are injured

[close]

they

Spoiler alert

break into tiny little lines of code

[close]

. It looks awesome.

Not so sure about the massive

Spoiler alert

double seater lightbike/quad thing, though - it just manages to

[close]

cock

Spoiler alert

the whole game up

[close]

and

Spoiler alert

really is a load of

[close]

balls.

Edit:

That said, there's no explanation of how

Spoiler alert

if Jeff Bridges has been trapped in the Grid for 20 years, the Grid somehow managed to evolve in the basement of his workshop without the hardware ever being upgraded from whatever it would have been back then - realistically, probably roughly something equivalent to a mobile phone circa 2002?

[close]

. But that is probably not worth thinking about.

[The Boston Crab]

My first impressions were probably tainted by being a massive Daft Punk/Bangalter fan and anticipating something pretty special after all this time. The fact that it sounds like anyone could have knocked it up was my first issue with it and it went downhill from there...

I'm still going to see the film, though.

[tygerbug]

I saw the movie tonight. Enjoyed it. Here's a full review. I won't copy/paste it because it's long.

http://www.orangecow.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848

Short take: Tron: Legacy is all style and no substance, and for the most part I am fine with that. The visuals are excellent and so are the ideas of the world they've created. The dialogue is bad and so is the lead actor. Jeff Bridges and Michael Sheen are good.

[Custard]

Saw this today, so I did.

Erm..... it was alreet. Lovely effects, some great action sequences (but not enough, i thought), and it achieves pretty much all you'd want and expect, but, well, it's missing something. Something i can't quite put my finger on yet.

People have slagged off the de-aging effects used on Jeff Bridges in the film, but i thought it just about worked. Not as smooth and seamless as Benjamin Button, but it wasn't as jarring and distracting as i've heard. The eyes and mouths on these things still look a little monged, though.

The 3D ain't much cop really, either. All the bits outside the game-world are in 2D, which irritated me a bit. Especially as its being hyped up as this great, immersive 3D experience. Though in another way, it does make the entering into the game-world that little bit more exciting and eventful i guess.

Anyway, it's pretty decent. Well worth a watch, but doesn't quite hit the level i hoped for.

[sirhenry]

Saw this today, at the Imax.

Really liked the end credits.[nb]Well, the first half of them anyway.[/nb]

[momatt]

Saw this today, at the Imax.

Really liked the end credits.[nb]Well, the first half of them anyway.[/nb]

Yeah, the credits were the best bit of 3D I thought.

Young Jeff Bridges ventured into the Uncanny Valley a bit I thought, but it was still awe-inspiring.

Though it made my eyes hurt a wee bit, this film at the IMAX is incredible.  Being 'all style and no substance' is fair and yet doesn't detract from the enjoyment one little bit.  It is a really beautiful film and I would gladly see it again tomorrow.  But I'll probably just wait for the Blu-Ray.

[Blumf]

It felt like they had moved a lot of the action out of the way to put in some character development or something, but forgot to.

Overall what I think the film was missing is a sense of exploration and awe, Flynn Jr. seemed to get into the swing of things pretty quickly and didn't spend any time looking around. Compare with the original which was mostly finding out about the computer world.

Other random thoughts:
* By my count Sam ended up with a spare Lightcycle bar during the match but it was never used, cut from story?
* What was all that 'knocking on the sky' stuff Kevin was doing? Seemed like a rather empty attempt at spiritualism.
* We could have done with some more background on the ISOs, we needed more reason to care about them than the few words we were given (I think the game has some details but the film ends up with half a story)
* Would have liked to have seen another 'bit'
* 3D was worthless, got nothing from it. Might have been better on an Imax screen,
* Disappointed with the digitisation sequence, or rather the lack of it.

[momatt]

It felt like they had moved a lot of the action out of the way to put in some character development or something, but forgot to.

Overall what I think the film was missing is a sense of exploration and awe, Flynn Jr. seemed to get into the swing of things pretty quickly and didn't spend any time looking around. Compare with the original which was mostly finding out about the computer world.

Other random thoughts:
* By my count Sam ended up with a spare Lightcycle bar during the match but it was never used, cut from story?
* What was all that 'knocking on the sky' stuff Kevin was doing? Seemed like a rather empty attempt at spiritualism.
* We could have done with some more background on the ISOs, we needed more reason to care about them than the few words we were given (I think the game has some details but the film ends up with half a story)
* Would have liked to have seen another 'bit'
* 3D was worthless, got nothing from it. Might have been better on an Imax screen,
* Disappointed with the digitisation sequence, or rather the lack of it.

*I noticed the extra bar too, he didn't get a chance to use it.  But what a scene, the lightcycle bit made me dizzy in the best way possible.
*The knocking on the sky style of Kevin was cheezily groovy.  Best line - "It's all bio-digital jazz, man."
*Yeah the ISO thing confused the hell out of me.  I assumed that I missed some vital shard of explanatory dialogue, but they hadn't actually explained at all really.  I like to think Sam just wanted to save Quorra because she was fit really (not understanding the ISOs either) – which is a good enough reason for me.
*True, he was just zapped into the grid instantly.  And didn't seem that bothered when he was there.  I was hoping for a magnificent decent into a psychedelic cyber-whirlpool.  More exploration would have been nice, maybe they wanted to emphasise the rush to save the world or whatever.

Also, I was surprised Kevin wasn't even slightly annoyed that his son lost his awesome, badass and unique motorbike.  Most Dads would go fucking apeshit.  But most dads aren't electro-Buddhists.

[VegaLA]

I was also hoping that

Spoiler alert

David Warner would make a cameo,

[close]

but then I can't remember exactly what happened to him at the end of the original film anyway so.
Also, didn't the guy who played David Warner Jnr look a lot like Cillian Murphy? I thought it WAS him for a while.

[sirhenry]

Yes, far too much unexplained or undeveloped as listed above. Sark's son

Spoiler alert

just shrugging his shoulders when security (his department) is hacked and loses them all possible profit for the year

[close]

was an appalling piece of writing. The ISOs appeared to be self-generated, a fascinating idea that begged for a full explanation and got none. And the whole Buddhist idea seemed to consist of sitting down, doing nothing, for no reason. And

Spoiler alert

the twist of the swapped discs at the end

[close]

was as unexpected as lightcycles in a Tron movie. All in all not impressive, and maybe it was because it was 3D and Imax, but it was all too fuzzy and unclear (and the story).

Still liked the titles though.

[wheatgod]

Also, didn't the guy who played David Warner Jnr look a lot like Cillian Murphy? I thought it WAS him for a while.

Are you kidding? It WAS Murphy, you oaf!! No doubt the villain if the next one goes ahead.

[VegaLA]

Are you kidding? It WAS Murphy, you oaf!! No doubt the villain if the next one goes ahead.

Fuck, Shit and Wank. He was not credited but a quick check on IMDB confirms it is him.
What a strawberry tart!

[Catalogue Trousers]

Okay. The one thing that really rankled with me.

At the end of the original, Flynn is brutally aware that any programs who are de-rezzed on the Grid are effectively dead.

So..

Spoiler alert

WHY THE FUCK DOES MR TECHNO-BUDDHIST ALLOW THE GAMES TO CONTINUE WHEN HE'S IN CONTROL

[close]

???

Theories welcomed.

[Blumf]

At the end of the original, Flynn is brutally aware that any programs who are de-rezzed on the Grid are effectively dead.

So..

Spoiler alert

WHY THE FUCK DOES MR TECHNO-BUDDHIST ALLOW THE GAMES TO CONTINUE WHEN HE'S IN CONTROL

[close]

???

Spoiler alert

Maybe they didn't get derezzed when he was presiding over the games. Maybe Clu was a traditionalist and brought that back when he took over

[close]

Maybe we should derez people who fail to get medals at the Olympics! Make the lazy fuckers sweat for a change.

[momatt]

Shiiiiiit, now it's been dissected by you chaps, the writing looks really bad.  I think Sark's son shrugged at the profit loss as he is optimistic and young and too cool to care, like Sam.
How cool was the Tron-ified version of the Disney castle though!

[phes]

I'd really recommend listening to the /film podcast (ep 128) episode on Legacy (not the additional 20 minutes on the player, the full podcast behind the title link)

http://slashfilm.com/filmcast/

It's the only really decent, passionate critique of the film i've heard that goes much beyond 'it doesn't have a very good story or script and the acting is not good'

[Blumf]

I'd really recommend listening to the /film podcast (ep 128) episode on Legacy (not the additional 20 minutes on the player, the full podcast behind the title link)

http://slashfilm.com/filmcast/

It's the only really decent, passionate critique of the film i've heard that goes much beyond 'it doesn't have a very good story or script and the acting is not good'

Not sure if I'd rate the review as highly as you but it does prove that you can spend forever listing the problems with this film.

But they did bring up something I forgot, T:L nicked a lot from the crappy Matrix sequels.

They were right about Clu's big plan too. I would have liked to have seen that happen, but it would have been even stupider than they thought,

Spoiler alert

Clu gets to the portal with tens of thousands of his troops, pilots the transporter ship in, then we cut to an external shot of Flynn's arcade in the real world, hear a rumbling noise followed by a gush of crush body parts spurting out of the basement window.

[close]

[OG Mudbone]

I see I'm not the only one who's really confused about the ISOs. When I saw the film I kept thinking that I'd missed or misheard some crucial dialogue explaining what they're actually about. So they are digital creations that somehow "naturally" sprang to "life" indepently of any programming, right? Which would make them non-biological lifeforms and essentially a highly-advanced artificial intelligence; so how is Quorra able to exist in the real world?

It was made pretty clear that she is made of "coding" (I don't know what else to call it) like all other non-users in The Grid, so what form does she take when she escapes with Sam? Is she now made of flesh and blood and technically a human being like him? Or is she still non-biological and would still actually derezz if she was somehow killed or badly injured? Sam kept his flesh and blood form in both worlds, so what about her?

So yeah, did I simply miss something? Or was it kept deliberately vague (with an eye on potential sequels)? Or is it just a plothole?

[thugler]

Enjoyed it as a dumb popcorn flick.

Did old man bridges just happen to have saved an incredibly attractive lady as his only companion? Or had he been 'teaching' her other things, was one of those books the karma sutra?

[SavageHedgehog]

Saw it at the IMAX while I was down in London. The 3-D was a bit of a non-event, but other than that I really enjoyed it. Exciting and Michael Sheen hammed it up like a pro. While the plot holes are well documented above, I'm not sure why this is getting such a backlash elsewhere for having "no plot". It's not a great plot sure, it's a standard hunt the McGuffin plot with some mythology on top, but that's at least par for major event movies of the last five years, and I thought this had better characterisation than most. Shame its perfromance has been quite so underwhelming, even Epic Movie 2: Gulliver's Travels has made more at the UK Box Office in half the time! Anyway, good fun and I look forward to The Lawnmower Man: Fresh Cut, Disclosure: File Two etc.

[The Boston Crab]

I watched it again last night. The soundtrack - and that painful squealing noise is the sound of me backpedalling furiously - is absolutely BANGIN. The lightcycles/lightjets sequences are extraordinary. The fighting is a bit rubs, though. The Buddhist/woo stuff was a bit cheesy 'bio-digital jazz, man' but I quite enjoyed the simple philosophies the film highlighted. You can't live to chase the future. Your life is right here, now. This is something so true and familiar, it's a cliche but as ever, there's a massive difference between being able to rationalise what it means and actually feeling that truth.