Panorama: Addicted to Games

[The Wild International]

Sorry if this thread should rightfully belong in Picture Box, I wrestled with the choice for a while.

Did anyone else see this? Still on iPlayer if anyone's interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wlmj0/Panorama_Addicted_to_Games/

I often get quite defensive when the negative influence of video games is examined on television, mainly because it all tends to be delivered very cynically, and by someone who has no idea what they're talking about. A fine example of this was when the presenter referred to "Laura Croft", one of the worlds most recognisable gaming icons. This may seem arbitrary and petty, but alarm bells began chiming with me. He was, of course, attempting to refer to Lara Croft, and though it is a small mistake to make, it just makes the whole thing that little bit harder to take seriously.

That said, it wasn't all bad, some developers were given time to defend the medium, and it was quick to mention that the percentage of "problem gamers" is very low overall. I thought some of the editing was a bit much, such as focusing on a cigarette in the hand of someone playing in a Korean internet cafe. This sort of suggestive editing really gets on my nerves in general, and in this case it just seemed such a blatant way to present video games as harmful and addictive and potentially deadly, JUST LIKE CIGARETTES, YEAH? I often feel that if the production team behind a documentary have already made up their mind on the subject, there's very little reason to bother.

Anyway, I don't have a solid gold point to make on this, I just thought it was worth bringing up.
What do you think of the representation of video games on television, and the rise in gaming addiction?

[Mister Six]

Did anyone in the show point out that you can't be addicted to gaming in a medical sense because it doesn't develop a chemical dependency?

Can't be bothered watching this but I'm amazed that TV news shows are still banging this drum now that gaming is prevalent among male 20-30-year-olds and increasingly popular with women both in and out of that age bracket. When was the last time they did a report about compulsive telly watching?

[Zero Gravitas]

I wonder where the research for the 20-30 age bracket thing comes from, I'd be amused if it were things like this:

http://www.rockstargames.com/reddeadredemption/

In fact it'd be a little hard for teens to be playing the most popular games as they're not allowed to buy them; all retailers so diligently protect them from the violence encoded within.

Did anyone in the show point out that you can't be addicted to gaming in a medical sense because it doesn't develop a chemical dependency?

Surely it's closer to the meaning of gambling addition whereby its an urge to engage in an activity despite it interfering with normal functioning? I seem to recall mmorpg loot drops fitting into the class of unpredictable rewards which has been shown to have a strong effect on dopamine transmission:

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/studies/report-28978.html

[Dead kate moss]

It was the same old scare-mongering bollocks we've all seen before.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Computer games can be addictive in their own way. Chemical addiction or otherwise they can and do cause some people to live more dysfunctionally.

It's not something that you catch though, and so many of the people who slip into dysfunctionality have other issues in their lives which contribute to it.

[Dead kate moss]

The stupidest bit was where the teenager wasn't allowed to play his favourite violent game, so he went round smashing up the house. Therefore the game made him do it.

[Still Not George]

Computer games are most definitely psychologically habit-forming, and certain intermittent reinforcement games such as WoW are most definitely addictive. Pretty much everyone in the industry knows this. It's not even really a topic of discussion amongst developers; most of us know exactly what we're making.

At the same time, blaming games for problems like the ones featured in the documentary is laughable. The Korean family who let their kid starve were mentally ill; they'd have done the same thing with the TV or a book. It's an indictment of South Korea's treatment of the mentally ill, not of games.

RPS pointed out something quite valid - if the kids featured in the docu really are addicted, what the hell were Panorama doing making them play the fucking games again?

[Still Not George]

Oh, and Adrian Hon, lol. I went to school with that guy. He was a complete tool.

He was apparently involved in Perplex City, though, so maybe he's less of a tool now.

[Mister Six]

Surely it's closer to the meaning of gambling addition whereby its an urge to engage in an activity despite it interfering with normal functioning? I seem to recall mmorpg loot drops fitting into the class of unpredictable rewards which has been shown to have a strong effect on dopamine transmission:

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/studies/report-28978.html

Yeah, but if you're juxtaposing the images of people smoking fags and people playing games I think you have a journalistic obligation to explain that the metaphor doesn't stand up to actual scientific scrutiny.

[The Wild International]

Did anyone in the show point out that you can't be addicted to gaming in a medical sense because it doesn't develop a chemical dependency?

It was mentioned that gaming addiction hasn't (yet) been formally acknowledged as a medical condition, though it seemed very keen to suggest that it should be.
I'm unsure, myself, but the comparison to slot machines and gambling in general is quite persuasive. Clearly games are capable of pulling some people in to a compulsive (and sometimes destructive) cycle, but the percentage is so small, it's clear that this is more to do with underlying psychological issues of the people it becomes a problem for.
The show did make it clear that the Korean parents whose baby died of neglect both had a history of depression and mental instability.

Incidentally, Edge have written a little article on it. Aren't you lucky.
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/was-panoramas-game-addiction-report-fair

[thugler]

There was a channel 4 documentary made several years back, which used pupils in my school for research, with a couple appearing on the show. I was subjected to their tests, which consisted of playing either a racing game or the wu tang clan beat em up game for about 10 minutes. Before answering pitifully obvious questions about moral/ethical choices.

Of course what they did was pick the two people who gave the most provocative answers, one of who is a mate of mine and loves to exaggerate and bullshit. Then they put shots of them playing the games and looking concentrated and made up a load of stuff. It made me angry then and continues to. It's not an addiction anymore than a kid doing any other pastime is addicted to it rather than enjoying it.

[Zetetic]

Yeah, but if you're juxtaposing the images of people smoking fags and people playing games I think you have a journalistic obligation to explain that the metaphor doesn't stand up to actual scientific scrutiny.

Please explain. What do you mean by the metaphor not standing up to scientific scrutiny?
Do you consider a 'metaphor' of addiction to be suitable when considering self-harm? (Another activity that, perhaps more obviously than gambling or other intermittently rewarding activity, involves only endogenous release of chemicals that promote habit formation.)

SNG seems to be exactly right. It'd be ridiculous to suggest that you need to introduce novel chemicals into the body for an activity to be habit-forming, and it's obvious that where there's money to be made from producing something habit-forming (WoW being the obvious revolting example) then there'll be scum ready to do so.

I've generally be disappointed by the gaming press' reaction to things like this, but I suppose when the original article/programme is so overblown, it's hard not to be annoyed by it.

I'm also genuinely surprised that so few people haven't ever been aware of habit-formation in their own game playing; I've certainly caught myself playing a game long after I've actually stopped enjoying it. Perhaps I'm just weak-willed.  'One more turn...'

[Zetetic]

Clearly games are capable of pulling some people in to a compulsive (and sometimes destructive) cycle, but the percentage is so small, it's clear that this is more to do with underlying psychological issues of the people it becomes a problem for.

It's probably fair to put 'individual variation' as a major factor, but 'psychological issues' seems a bit weasely.

[ThickAndCreamy]

I'm also genuinely surprised that so few people haven't ever been aware of habit-formation in their own game playing; I've certainly caught myself playing a game long after I've actually stopped enjoying it. Perhaps I'm just weak-willed.  'One more turn...'

This is why I've stopped playing games so much, and I'm selling every console I own (PSP, DS and PS3) except the PC. I used to be addicted to gaming because I enjoyed it a lot, now I just want to become addicted to have something to fill up my time with that's interesting, but I find it a chore to play nearly all games now. It's realising in say something like GTA IV where I want to complete the game for the sake of it, I want to play it for hours even though it's really not fun at all. Not to say this is always true, I've spent 200 hours on Team Fortress, about 300+ hours on Battlefield 2 and enjoyed them both thoroughly (still enjoying TF2 actually). I just don't seem to play for longer than 30 minute stints now as when I get bored I simply turn it off and do something else, I never used to have that willpower.

[Mister Six]

Please explain. What do you mean by the metaphor not standing up to scientific scrutiny?

If you're going to make a visual comparison between an addictive chemical substance and a habit-forming activity, two very different things, in a journalistic program then you need to make it clear that the two do not function in the same way. Anyone can get addicted to cigs, heroin, whatever if they take enough. Not everyone will get addicted to videogames. The journalist/director/editor should make that clear.

I'm under no illusions that games can be extremely habit-forming. However a serious journalistic piece about the subject needs to be scrupulously fair in its portrayal.

Ironically it's the most accessible, non-nerdy/violent games - Farmville and other FB apps in particular - that are most consciously designed to encourage habit-forming, 'addictive' behaviour.

[loveable bobbi bundles]

Did this programme discuss addiction to a solitary game, or to computer games in general?

[Dead kate moss]

Did this programme discuss addiction to a solitary game, or to computer games in general?

Both, internet interactive especially. So long as they were violent, they were in.

[weekender]

WHAT NONE OF YOU (NOR THEM PANARAMO FUCKERS) REALISE IS HOW HARD I'M FINDING THE SECRET 'K' LEVELS ON DONKEY KONG COUNTRY RETURNS.

[wasp_f15ting]

They'll claim wanking is addictive next..

That kid who was addicted to wow was hilarious, clearly the guy knew he was in a BG and kept prompting him to stop mid real time battle. "Oh you unreasonable cunt, how dare you stop chatting with me, wow much more important to you than me??!" sensationalist piss cone. I am sure there could be a case built for going to live football matches and dying.. oh wait... Just like the "in 5 years 20 people have died whilst gaming" fucks sake; gaming is as dangerous to life as wanking is to the propagation of the human race; all in moderation.

[Funcrusher]

Some pretty amazing stories on here:

http://www.wowdetox.com/

A heck of a lot of people seem to find the on-line mmporgs or whatever they're called incredibly addictive.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I remember Football Manager being touted as the cause of a few divorces a few years ago. I do get the addiction with sports games, trying to guide your favourite team to the championships can be very addicting. I tend to limit myself to 1-2 games though, then do a couple hours work/something creative. As far as other games go, like GTA or COD, I'm not the best player and tend to get stressed out and annoyed when I get stuck, so will stop playing rather than spend hours trying to get through it.

[Big Jack McBastard]

There is an odd allure to online games I remember playing Runescape for the first time and getting hooked[nb]Not that I agree with the shite some people spout about 'gaming addiction'[/nb] on it with my brother, with whom I shared an account so as to be more proficient.

It scoffed a fair track of our spare time for a short while and he quit when he realised just how much he was on there. I left a little while later after seeing what would be required of me to advance any further and after gifting everything I'd collected to date a random noob (making him noob-rich and clad in noob-armour) which in a 'sun-rise, sunset' moment is how I got my first leg up in the game.

Were we addicted? No, did we have anything better to do? Clearly not.

The problem is not a gaming dependency but a lack of other stuff to do.

Cart is before horse.

[Mister Six]

trying to guide your favourite team to the championships can be very addicting.

Addictive. What have those Americans done to you?

[Lee Van Cleef]

Were we addicted? No, did we have anything better to do? Clearly not.

The problem is not a gaming dependency but a lack of other stuff to do.

Cart is before horse.

As someone who racked up months of playtime on WoW I think this is a large part of the deal.  I have a degree of social anxiety in my psychological make-up which means I struggle to go out, socialise and make friends.  As a result I have a huge amount of spare time on my hands that I filled with WoW because it felt like it had the benefits of socialising, playing a game, and also fed my obsessive compulsive nature. I've been off it for about two months now and my life hasn't magically changed because I'm still pretty much the same person.  I still don't have much to do but I'm not wasting that time on WoW.  I should take up something constructive, but I'm also lazy :/

The thing that screamed out at me regarding the kid who went postal on his sister's door was listening to his mum and how she just seemed to think everything was fine, and it's just a lark innit.  Get involved in your kid's life you plank of a woman.

[Emma Raducanu]

I can remember getting a gameboy for christmas and with it Mario. Before I got chance to play on it, my Mother was already on level 10 - she wouldn't leave it alone and almost forgot to make Christmas dinner. That was until we all yelled at her and told the bitch to get in the kitchen.

[Mister Six]

I can remember getting a gameboy for christmas and with it Mario. Before I got chance to play on it, my Mother was already on level 10 - she wouldn't leave it alone and almost forgot to make Christmas dinner. That was until we all yelled at her and told the bitch to get in the kitchen.

The family that brays together stays together.

[VegaLA]

That was until we all yelled at her and told the bitch to get in the kitchen.

That's how it's done! Except of course we dare NOT let my Mother in the Kitchen for Christmas Day. Thats the Mans domain.

Spoiler alert

Until the plates need to be washed.

[close]

[El Unicornio, mang]

Addictive. What have those Americans done to you?

I'm sorry, I can't help myself sometimes :-)

[wasp_f15ting]

This is probably too mainstream a comedy for you all, but I found Dara's sketch on gaming rather funny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wlg99/Live_at_the_Apollo_Series_6_Episode_3/

[weekender]

Well, I for one have the X Factor on in the background whilst I piss around on the internet.

My immediate thought is how I can super-bounce off the dancers then onto the head of the singer in the hope that a magic barrel leading to a bonus room appears.  See also the Donkey Kong Country Returns Wii thread.

_{I did have to play it for half an hour last night after my gf had gone home, just to beat Shifty Smashers.}