Is James Bond A Cunt?

[Dead kate moss]

You can rip apart almost any Bond film, but I do agree that Octopussy is particularly full of nonsense, and lacks the charm to get away with it.

I'm not the biggest James Bond fan, but I'd like it if they started making Bond movies again, instead of those things with Daniel Craigs. And yes, Bond is and should be a cunt.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'd like it if they started making Bond movies again, instead of those things with Daniel Craigs.

Ian Fleming's James Bond or Eon Productions' James Bond?  Because, like it or not, the Craig incarnation hoves closer to the former than most.

Anyone hoping for movies that are more like Diamonds Are Forever and The Man With the Golden Gun and A View To A Kill is, at least partly, being driven by childhood nostalgia.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Got done with You Only Live Twice, amusing when they made Bond 'Japanese' by sticking a funny wig on him and getting soaped down by four Japanese girls in underwear. Great theme tune, possibly the best. Solid Bond film with all the necessary ingredients.

Onto OHMSS next. I remember it having a good story, good music, good action scenes, but Lazenby being utter shite.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Lazenby's actually OK.  He's a bit hampered by being dubbed over with Inspector Wexford, but he suits the part well physically and he's great in the last scene.

Best moment?  When he absolutely ladles the fucking caviar down on a tiny piece of toast and signs off with "Royal Beluga, north of the Caspian".

Second best bit:  When he ogles the centrefold in Playboy.

[Dead kate moss]

Ian Fleming's James Bond or Eon Productions' James Bond?  Because, like it or not, the Craig incarnation hoves closer to the former than most.

Like the movies. I don't care about the novels. These new films are boring, I want sharks with lasers on them and stuff. And a good looking, charming clever cunt of a Bond, not that dull, ugly monkey-face Craig.

I've said before that The Dark Knight Returns was more of a Bond movie than Quantum Of Solace. memorable scary villain, awesome car with gadgets/other imaginative gadgets, great stunts and action sequences, super-cool lead character. Unbelievable, but it worked. That's how you should do Bond.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Well, even if I disagree, the post-Inception Nolan's apparently still up for directing a Bond film - if the producers can afford him and/or grant him the autonomy he'll no doubt request, it's not an impossibility that he'll do it.

Edit for link:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/christopher-nolan-says-his-howard-hughes-film-is-dead-but-hed-still-like-to-do-a-bond-film-at-some-point-20120604

[El Unicornio, mang]

I thought Lazenby had the right build and physical mannerisms, but his head just doesn't work. I can imagine him filling out top secret paperwork, but can't really imagine him seducing ladies or intimidating baddies. He was also lacking in charisma I thought. It's been a while since I saw it though I'm willing to give him another go.

I like the Daniel Craig films, but I do hope this new one has a bit more in the way of gadgets and spy stuff. I think the Connery ones got the tone just right (aside from Diamonds are Forever, which might as well have been a Moore film) although I think having the whole 60s thing going on helped them a lot. The 70s were a style wasteland. The Moore ones were just stupid guff (although I quite like Live and Let Die and For Your Eyes Only), Daltons were a bit too serious and depressing, and Brosnan didn't convince me as a tough guy. And Jesus, Die Another Day was fucking atrocious.

Anyway, I'm watching all of them whether they're shit or not. Yes, even Moonraker.

[HappyTree]

The best thing in any Bond film ever was that white Lotus Esprit that changed into a submarine. And fired matches out the back if you pressed the bonnet.

[thecuriousorange]

I enjoy the Craig ones but they're too afraid to ham it up. I suppose they're still ashamed of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w6FV8P7HXg&feature=fvwrel That was far from the only shit in Bond's history. We haven't forgiven that but we're willing to forget it. Making things overly serious as a knee-jerk reaction could be the lasting reason for why that film was so bad.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Surprised by how much I liked OHMSS. Dialogue is very good, Lazenby's fight scenes are terrific, and interestingly his acting seems fine in the scenes where his voice is dubbed by another actor. Sadly his delivery in all other scenes is quite horrible. He's just not a good enough actor, and sorely lacking in animal magnetism. But overall, a very good spy movie.

My scores so far:

Dr. No - 8
From Russia With Love - 9
Goldfinger - 8
Thunderball - 7
You Only Live Twice - 8
OHMSS - 8

[Blue Jam]

Didn't Patrick McGoohan turn down the role of Bond because he thought he sounded like a cunt? Or was McGoohan the cunt for banging on about his religion?

[Nuclear Optimism]

Yeah, he disapproved of all the bed-hopping.

[El Unicornio, mang]

There's an interesting Sam Neill screentest (for Living Daylights) here (2:50 onward)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EKVWuz66_8

[HappyTree]

The hamminess is what Bond was all about. As well as the sexism. But in these modern times the sexism can be easily dropped, but not the hamminess! I mean, there are plenty of other hammy films with less stylish history, e.g., Mission Impossible. Ridiculous set pieces are what Bond was all about. I'd far rather watch a speedboat do a corkscrew jump over the Eiffel tower than watch Craig Miseryguts have his bollocks flailed into submission.

[Ocho]

Yeah, he disapproved of all the bed-hopping.

He later gave an interview where he denied this.  He did have the bed-hopping cut out of Danger Man, holding TV to different standards than cinema, but claimed that he turned down Bond because there was someone involved in Dr. No that he'd worked with before and didn't want to work with again (he didn't name them).  This is the guy who supposedly turned down The Saint because of the car and binned a Prisoner script because it featured Number 6 birdwatching and sweating (two things heroes don't do, according to McGoohan).

[CaledonianGonzo]

The hamminess is what Bond was all about. As well as the sexism. But in these modern times the sexism can be easily dropped, but not the hamminess! I mean, there are plenty of other hammy films with less stylish history, e.g., Mission Impossible. Ridiculous set pieces are what Bond was all about. I'd far rather watch a speedboat do a corkscrew jump over the Eiffel tower than watch Craig Miseryguts have his bollocks flailed into submission.

That the Craig films lack spectacular stunts is based on...erm...nothing.  They're chock full of them.

A quick rewatch of Die Another Day may indicate why these days they're currently striving for less hamminess rather than more.

[Endicott]

The hamminess is what Bond was all about. As well as the sexism. But in these modern times the sexism can be easily dropped, but not the hamminess! I mean, there are plenty of other hammy films with less stylish history, e.g., Mission Impossible. Ridiculous set pieces are what Bond was all about. I'd far rather watch a speedboat do a corkscrew jump over the Eiffel tower than watch Craig Miseryguts have his bollocks flailed into submission.

There's a point to that torture scene though, because it's the first time on film that Bond has been rescued purely by luck, and not through anything of his own devising. So it is closer to the books, which is what all the films should have been all along. The hammy shit can fuck right off, it's what ruins Bond films.

[Jemble Fred]

binned a Prisoner script because it featured Number 6 birdwatching and sweating (two things heroes don't do, according to McGoohan).

What a twat. Sgt Neil Howie did both, and he's better than any character McGoohan ever played.

[Dead kate moss]

I don't want 'hammy' - but I don't think the Craig films are spectacular or full of awesome stunts or set-pieces (or gadgets), they are Jason Bourne level. My comparison with The Dark Knight Returns is the one I am suggesting is what a modern Bond film could aim at.

[Dead kate moss]

So it is closer to the books, which is what all the films should have been all along.

Sometimes an adaptation surpasses or improves on the source material. I admit I've never read a Fleming Bond book, but liked the movies' tone, at their best, as they were, and if Craig is closer to Fleming's Bond (a point I have seen debated by those who have read the novels) I'm just not as interested.

[Jemble Fred]

Bond needn't be hammy, but does desperately need to be witty, which none of the Craig miserythons have even vaguely approached.

[CaledonianGonzo]

I don't think the Craig films are spectacular or full of awesome stunts or set-pieces (or gadgets)

Disagree - for me, the free-running over the cranes tops anything in The Dark Knight.  Quantum of Solace is basically one long chase scene.

No gadgets, mind, but I don't particualrly care about gadgets.  I'd rather have a compelling plot, cf. something like From Russia With Love.

Bond needn't be hammy, but does desperately need to be witty, which none of the Craig miserythons have even vaguely approached.

While you're correct in this, there are definitely flashes - 'Do I look like I give a damn?'  'Skewered.  One sympathises'.  All of Le Chiffre's dialogue is pretty good.

There's admittedly less of a case for Quantum of Solace, wit-wise.

[thecuriousorange]

Say whatever bad things you want about Die Another Day (and everyone does, including me), but I enjoyed it more than the fucking snorefest that was The World Is Not Enough. Surely one of the most boring action films ever made.

[Jemble Fred]

Really? It's got Carlyle and Coltrane in it, the former being especially excellent. I'd watch it twice in a row rather rather than rewatch either Craig movie.

[Dead kate moss]

Carlyle is in it for about five minutes. I can stand watching it for Sophie Marceu's face and Denise Richards' tits though, especially in the wet t-shirt at the end.

Cal-Go, yes Craig's free-jumping chase scene was great but I think that was the only good action sequence in the whole movie.

[non capisco]

Denise Richards.

Oh yeah, 'Christmas Jones'. I'm still surprised Brosnan-Bond didn't follow up that awful closing line 'I thought Christmas only came once a year' with 'More stuffing?.

On the subject of which, what's YOUR favourite ropey 007 innuendo? 'I think he's attempting re-entry, sir' is arguably the actual highlight of 'Moonraker'.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Cal-Go, yes Craig's free-jumping chase scene was great but I think that was the only good action sequence in the whole movie.

The DB5 barrell roll is (or at least was) in the Guinness Book of Records.

It's personal taste as to whether it's a more spectacular stunt than, say, the corkscrew jump in The Man With the Golden Gun, but at least they didn't soundtrack it with a slide-whistle sound effect.

On the subject of which, what's YOUR favourite ropey 007 innuendo?

And this is the problem that the producers' face - there'll always be people who prefer a Carry On movie tone to something a bit more subtle and hard-edged.

[Dead kate moss]

The DB5 barrell roll is (or at least was) in the Guinness Book of Records.

For the most over-used car stunt?


Meanwhile...

[CaledonianGonzo]

After the invisible Aston Martin in Die Another Day we should just be grateful that they don't just have him cycling everywhere now.

[Dead kate moss]

After the invisible Aston Martin in Die Another Day we should just be grateful that they don't just have him cycling everywhere now.

Well yes that was just stupid. It's a fine line Bond movies have to tread.... but they seem too shaken and stirred to try to attempt it these days.