Will 2010 be remembered as the year that British comedy punched down?

[Dead kate moss]

There's an episode of South Park, where if I remember correctly, the kids are so annoyed by middle aged Harley Davidson owners zooming through town they call them gay. They get in trouble from both the authorities and the bikers, and are perplexed that anyone would think they meant the bikers were homosexual. To them 'gay' just meant 'lame' and they had no problem with homosexuals. I think the episode ends with the govt accepting the word now has different meanings, for what that's worth.

I don't think this eradicates the problems of the two meanings being connected, but it illustrates a point of view that I believe a lot of (non-homophobic) people have when using the word 'gay' to mean 'shit.' Did it come from homophobia? Yes. Is it divorced enough now to be acceptable? Debatable. Is it kind of funny? sorry, but to me it is, though I don't use it myself.

Meanwhile the word 'lame' has become totally distinct from its original meaning. People with walking difficulties are aware that no one is mocking them when they say something is lame. Words do change meaning. I'd argue, with a a gay brother myself, that 'gay,' in context, has become/is becoming divorced enough and somehow ironically not homophobic to become acceptable.

Good point Neil about Gervais's reaction to being called a faggot in Invention Of Lying - It would have been at least nice if he'd used the opportunity to mock his tormentors homophobia than to simply be offended and deny.

[Harpo Speaks]

Actually as we've touched upon the influence of comedy on an audience, South Park did seem to really popularise the use of 'gay' in this context. This is purely anecdotal of course, but that seemed to be the case when I was at school and South Park first came out.

[Danger Man]

Words do change meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change

...has some interesting examples.

[Blumf]

There's an episode of South Park, where if I remember correctly, the kids are so annoyed by middle aged Harley Davidson owners zooming through town they call them gay. They get in trouble from both the authorities and the bikers, and are perplexed that anyone would think they meant the bikers were homosexual. To them 'gay' just meant 'lame' and they had no problem with homosexuals. I think the episode ends with the govt accepting the word now has different meanings, for what that's worth.

Just watched the Louis CK stand-up DVD Chewed Up and he starts off with a routine about how he misses using the word 'faggot' to mean crap/lame/shit/etc as a kid and it never occurring to him how it also meant homosexual and was never used in an anti-gay sense

(incidentally, I think the SP episode used 'faggot' not 'gay', I seem to remember the bikers being confused about being called a bundle of sticks)

One thing occurred to me a while back, 'fascism' gets it name from faggot too (or the Italian/Latin root word or something, basically bundle of sticks). Does that mean fascists are gay?

[Pedro_Bear]

I'd type Southpark freed words from traditional associations. Southpark blew away linguistic meaning with its creative use of swearing. Then for good measure not only satirised tokenism in mainstream media, but demonstrated equality does not involve objectifying people. At one point it was arguably the most inclusive show on tv.

In terms of levelling the US-style politically correct landscape, it was a weapon like no other, and more often than not exposed the hypocrisy inherent in surrendering to an abstract, arbitrary set of rules for language rather than paying attention to what is actually being said, or how.

The show repeatedly drives home valid points about where responsibility lies for use of words. It deconstructs itself where use of language and grey-area broadcasting is concerned on mulitple occasions, exploring the idea of pushing the envelope. In terms of working with extreme themes, Southpark has no Old Media equivalent in presenting them as either humour or contextualising them such that offence is subverted and then averted. Stone and Parker only really found themselves in critical hot water when they included elements of US-style Libertarianism played straight, rather than depicting children masturbating dogs or injecting each other with AIDS. Which possibly goes to show that politics is the basest, most offensive topic in the World, and just isn't funny.


Yet... there's an associated problem, isn't there? One very relevant to the thread.

There is no guarantee that a word once free from context can't be reassociated with its former connotations, no effort required, only the will to do so. By exploding television, shows like Southpark ejected previously unmentionable ideas into the cultural ether, free for anyone to pick up.

The ideal is when we all dive in and start throwing words at each other on an equal footing, everyone has fun and lets off steam so we don't kill each other; the reality is somewhat different. Bullies don't pick on armed targets.

Further, and as importantly as these people are far more represented in the population, passive aggressive bullies are freer to impose their sleight-of-hand directives by latching onto harmless banter as if it were hate crime, free-floating language dragged back down to its traditional meaning as a means of indirect and seemingly blameless assault.

[Johnny Yesno]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change

...has some interesting examples.

And a list of motivations, including insult. Language isn't some force of nature we're powerless to influence. Sure, we can't control the language we inherit but, as Mister Six pointed out, we can control what we propagate. Just imagine if you substituted any other category of person for gay and used it to mean rubbish. At my secondary school there was a trend among the kids to use the word Jewish to mean miserly. Is that any different?

What bothers me about TN and The Morgana Show is that they could help to normalise prejudiced attitudes towards certain people, which is the motivation behind some language change. It's more than just words. Native American people worked that one out when choosing a name that reminds other Americans "We're not from India and we were here before you".

Check out the little kids on YouTube doing their Gilbert impressions. I bet being at school with them has been just dandy lately. I know bullies would just find something else if Gilbert didn't exist but that argument sounds much like what I imagine arms dealers tell themselves.

[Johnny Yesno]

Here's a link to that Marcus Brigstocke thread (which contains a link to your original thread), Neil, if it's any use for your article.

[sick as a pike]

I went to the 65th International Clowns Service this afternoon.

This unique Church Service is held annually on the first Sunday in February.  Clowns from all over the world (irrespective of religious conviction) attend in full slap.  They give thanks for the gift of laughter, and honour the father of present-day clowns, the famous Joesph Grimaldi.

(2010 report).
(Photo from today)

Anyway, relevance being that part of the service coincidentally had this to say about punching down in comedy-

For the times when we have failed to see the joke, and lost our sense of humour and perspective.  [...] For the times when we have laughed at others instead of with them, been cruel and arrogant instead of loving, and abused your great gift of laughter.  Lord have mercy.