Author Topic: The Next Generation of Consoles  (Read 62138 times)

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2011, 12:12:40 PM »
LBP is fairly versatile, I'd say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzViZCde5R8

Another problem with customisation is that you need robust takedown systems and expensive human oversight to weed out infringing, defamatory, pornographic and otherwise legally troublesome content.

I think that a growth area will be MMORPG-lite games that merge social networking with gaming. I think Sony failed in this area because they implemented a poor Second Life (essentially buildings with some games in) rather than a World of Warcraft model (a game with some buildings in). God knows how they fucked it up, as they have among their myriad divisions many of the pioneers of MMORPGs. I expect they all hate each other.   

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2011, 12:27:18 PM »
So I see Kinect as being for a different market from other types of game.

Yes and no. It's not just a market (i.e. in terms of demogrpahics) it's the types of games. So for your example of a snowboarding game, it's unlikely that a Kinect-only snowboarding game will be made because the control system would be diabolical - do you face the sensor or stand side on, which is more accurate to snowboarding? How do you turn, would you bend one knee to go one way, the other to go the opposite? How are regular and goofy handled? etc. etc.

Kinect is not going to completely replace the standard controller any time soon. I'd also wager that there won't be many games that can be controlled by a Kinect OR a controller, they will remain strictly different camps.

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Perhaps MS will corner that market, usurp the Wii and leave Sony to develop the more traditional games.

Why would they give up a large market share to take on something like the Wii, when they make far more money from the "hardcore" gamer lot? They're looking to expand their market share (possibly by trying to "usurp the Wii") but they're not just going to hand over their primary audience to Sony.

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I am now quite loyal to the Xbox brand, but would have no problem migrating to the Play Station if they redesigned their controller to be like the 360 one.

You're willing to migrate to the PS just because you don't "get" Kinect?

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The extra capacity of BluRay discs is a great benefit over the game discs the 360 uses

Not especially, there are hardly any multi-disk 360 games because so few games actually use the full storage space of one disk. Until that happens the extra capacity of BluRay is a moot point unless you're talking about adding ridiculously long FMV sequences (FF/MGS lol).

I think the next step for games is to make just about everything interactive. I mean, you have games in which interiors are really detailed and games in which exteriors are really detailed. In some you can jump over things, or climb, or fly or drive. But there is no game in which you can do everything. Or is there?

Development/QA nightmare.

With things like map editors, and mods on PC games like (the later) Fallouts, I think it may be possible for developers to open up the creative side to the public.

Mods and map editors have existed for as long as Doom etc. the problem is (as raised by Famous Mortimer and SNG) is that games have become increasingly complex over the years. Whereas before it was easy enough for one or two people to make a decent mod, these days it's much more difficult, meaning you'll normally need at least one person for each discipline (level design, 3D models, 2D sprites/textures, sound, programming etc.) if you want to release anything with decent enough quality. Total conversions these days are pretty rare when compared to the high points of Doom, Quake 1/2.

SNG has made a load of better points that I have I guess. For all this talk of customisation - just look at Black Ops. Treyarch put a customisable emblem thingy in there and a lot of people's first thoughts were "can I make a swastika?". This is what you'd have to be contending with all the time with user-generated content... or big cocks.

Jemble Fred

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2011, 12:29:45 PM »
That remains the equivalent of saying that poor people shouldn't be allowed to learn how to read and write, because they'd only read things like 'Heat' and mis-spell everything.

As for limiting the spread of offensive material, getting online for all to see, it's not impossible that actually sharing your creations would require some kind of charge, and vetting procedure. That would also create some very interesting jobs in the gaming industry...

Treguard of Dunshelm

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #63 on: January 27, 2011, 12:47:52 PM »
Procedural generation a la Dwarf Fortress? You'd still have to develop the basic framework, the textures etc, but the world could be "grown" rather than developed[nb]Or so it seems to me, I'm not a developer[/nb]

Still Not George

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2011, 01:04:28 PM »
That remains the equivalent of saying that poor people shouldn't be allowed to learn how to read and write, because they'd only read things like 'Heat' and mis-spell everything.
Facebook is at the door and would like a word. The word in question is apparently "h8lol".

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As for limiting the spread of offensive material, getting online for all to see, it's not impossible that actually sharing your creations would require some kind of charge, and vetting procedure. That would also create some very interesting jobs in the gaming industry...

"Twat Wrangler"?
"Fuckstick Management Specialist"?

There's a whole thread in this...

Jemble Fred

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2011, 01:08:19 PM »
I should admit that I'm the last person to have much interest in other people's modding and uploads, I'm completely self-centred in this, I just threw that idea in because sharing creations seems to be inevitable these days.

But the sell is – you design your boss in a fighting game, as perfectly as you can, with better variables than any current Customisation option. You can also recreate your workplace, and download chainsaws and cricket bats with nails through them and so on, to litter around the arena. Then, after a hard day at the office, you go home and beat the shit out of the boss and watch his face erupt with bruises, cuts and possibly even exploding eyeballs. You feel good. It's a stress toy.

That, in my opinion, equals the biggest sales of any game ever created.

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2011, 04:08:46 PM »
But that's just the offensive "it'll all be giant cocks" argument again.

You missed my point. I'm saying that character customisation was a fun diversion but it wasn't the reason that we played the game. I can't see a fighting game (say) with purely aesthetic customisation catching on, or at least having much staying power.

Your opinion that all professionally produced video game characters are shit and that you're only interested in seeing characters and playing worlds that you've created is, I think, unique to you. Or at least sufficiently obscure that I can't imagine a 'vanilla' game with purely cosmetic alterations catching on.

Jemble Fred

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2011, 04:15:46 PM »
Well hopefully the idea would catch on because gaming attitudes need to evolve, and we're discussing next generation gaming. Plus all those fighter franchises I mentioned are all fundamentally dire when you think about it. I love playing fighting games, as a genre, but I can see how pathetic the lore of each one is. Twats in pyjamas, psychotic robots and horrible sexist throwback female characters – it would be good if someone invented a decent new fighter franchise even if the 'vanilla' idea wasn't the sure-fire hit it still seems to be to me...

No, I'm sure it's not just me. It's surely just part of the human condition that we all like every part of our lives to be as unique and personalised as possible. As more people take up gaming – ie, fewer hardened gamers who take the make-up of Street Fighter et al for granted – personalisation becomes more important, and a bigger selling point. Vanilla gaming FTW.

Mister Six

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2011, 04:22:35 PM »
LBP is fairly versatile

That's LBP 2, I think, which is far more versatile. In LBP 1 you're restricted to side-scrolling platform games.

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I think that a growth area will be MMORPG-lite games that merge social networking with gaming. I think Sony failed in this area because they implemented a poor Second Life (essentially buildings with some games in) rather than a World of Warcraft model (a game with some buildings in). God knows how they fucked it up, as they have among their myriad divisions many of the pioneers of MMORPGs. I expect they all hate each other.

Well DC Universe Online will show whether console fans are prepared to make the leap to MMORPG gameplay. Can't see it taking off on the Xbox unless Microsoft knocks the monthly Gold subscription model on the head though.

VegaLA

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2011, 04:40:08 PM »
NOOOO! Not more multiplayer! Or at least not online multiplayer.


I'll make an exception for split-screen multiplayer. Left 4 Dead 2 and the isometric Tomb Raider game were both great fun when played alongside some mates. But those games are few and far between.

Which is why the Console future should be MP. With Broadband tech advancing and companies pouring more cash into cable, MP can expand to other gaming areas not yet touched.

The last rumour I heard about GoW3 is that it will allow for 4 players to play the campaign, which is certainly welcome news to me.
That said they have been very quiet for a number of months now and if the release date is indeed this coming April i'd had thought Cliffy B would be waving his wang about on live TV by now.

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2011, 04:49:47 PM »
horrible sexist throwback female characters
That's hardly a problem specific to "fighting games", is it, though? I mean, I'm playing through ME2 at the moment, and the very first female character is a genetically-altered big boobed Lara Croft type with hips so wide I'm astonished she can fit through the doors.


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No, I'm sure it's not just me. It's surely just part of the human condition that we all like every part of our lives to be as unique and personalised as possible. As more people take up gaming – ie, fewer hardened gamers who take the make-up of Street Fighter et al for granted – personalisation becomes more important, and a bigger selling point.
I was about to argue with you, then I did a quick mental review of my most recent game purchases (not including gifts like ME2 and DR2). The most recent games I've actually paid money for have been Minecraft (sandbox creativity shrub-dodging game), Dwarf Fortress (sandbox creativity high-functioning-alcoholic simulation game), and Supreme Ruler 2020 Global Crisis. That latter looks like an aberration, but it occurs to me that massive grand strategy games like SR2020 or HOI3 are typified by the deep level of customisation they permit in the way you play the game. SR2020 in particular provides thousands of potential modifications.

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2011, 04:55:07 PM »
That remains the equivalent of saying that poor people shouldn't be allowed to learn how to read and write, because they'd only read things like 'Heat' and mis-spell everything.

Except the two are hardly comparable. Hell, I love customising games (my housemate watches me play games but if it's got a character creation tool he leaves me to it because he knows I'll spend hours just tweaking the nose etc.) but I realise that there's many reasons why companies will want to avoid this. The largest is that they'd have to "police" content like the cocks/swastikas but they also will want to protect their brand as well as have pressure put upon them by other companies trying to protect their brands. City of Heroes/Villains had lots of problems with Marvel/DC keeping an eye on them to make sure that not just the game but the game's users didn't infringe on any IP.

There's also the issue of avoiding controversy - I swear I've read articles lambasting Columbine-inspired games or killers who have modded games to have their ex-girlfriend's faces in them. Sadly I can't find anything concrete and can't really Google too much while at work.

Jemble Fred

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2011, 05:00:10 PM »
EDIT: ^ That's only an issue when it comes to sharing designs online though, it doesn't have any bearing on customisation per se, and there are many bonuses to customisation besides sharing designs.

I can totally understand where the feeling that this 'vanilla game' idea is bollocks is coming from – I think the idea is pretty repugnant on quite a few levels to hardened gamers. But what it really comes down to is that most games companies want consoles to reach the widest audience possible, which means that hardened gamers are due to become a minority in the gaming community, especially next generation. I do think games with massive personalisation options and lots of jolly licensed DLC packs will have far greater appeal to more casual and inexperienced gamers. It's a very easy sell (see, the 'twat the boss' pitch above).

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2011, 05:01:15 PM »
Well hopefully the idea would catch on because gaming attitudes need to evolve, and we're discussing next generation gaming. Plus all those fighter franchises I mentioned are all fundamentally dire when you think about it. I love playing fighting games, as a genre, but I can see how pathetic the lore of each one is. Twats in pyjamas, psychotic robots and horrible sexist throwback female characters – it would be good if someone invented a decent new fighter franchise even if the 'vanilla' idea wasn't the sure-fire hit it still seems to be to me...

No, I'm sure it's not just me. It's surely just part of the human condition that we all like every part of our lives to be as unique and personalised as possible. As more people take up gaming – ie, fewer hardened gamers who take the make-up of Street Fighter et al for granted – personalisation becomes more important, and a bigger selling point. Vanilla gaming FTW.

So are you talking about Nintendo's Mii strategy? Where you place your avatars into generic games? I think even with just customising the aesthetics of a game you are still going to run into the usability vs. power problem.

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2011, 05:19:10 PM »
Which is why the Console future should be MP. With Broadband tech advancing and companies pouring more cash into cable, MP can expand to other gaming areas not yet touched.

The last rumour I heard about GoW3 is that it will allow for 4 players to play the campaign, which is certainly welcome news to me.
That said they have been very quiet for a number of months now and if the release date is indeed this coming April i'd had thought Cliffy B would be waving his wang about on live TV by now.

Don't quite see how your thought follows on from mine. MP is a permanent fixture in games, I know, I'd just rather the focus was on making a satisfying one-player game first and a fun MP game second. Also, in making split-screen MP a regular feature. I just remembered how much fun I had doing co-op MW2 missions last year over beers and a pizza. Far more entertaining than linking via broadband.

My poor mate's driven himself up the wall trying to get the split-screen mode working on Left 4 Dead 2. It amazes me that they wouldn't bother to put these things in PC games, but I suppose it's the Gordian knot approach to dealing with letters from angry chumps who want to know why their Pentium 133 won't run split-screen Call of Duty...

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2011, 06:14:57 PM »


Not especially, there are hardly any multi-disk 360 games because so few games actually use the full storage space of one disk. Until that happens the extra capacity of BluRay is a moot point unless you're talking about adding ridiculously long FMV sequences (FF/MGS lol).

But the amount of time and money spent by some cross platform games developers getting their games to fit on standard DVD discs would be time and money spent elsewhere in development don't you think? Rockstar admitted it was a huge challenge getting GTAIV onto a standard DVD. I'm sure they would have preferred not to have had that problem thrown at them.

I think that argument put forward by Sony fanboys that the 360's lack of large capacity disc storage has hugely hampered this generation and that the PS3 has suffered as a result is probably bollocks about 90% of the time but occasionally there may be a kernel of truth in it with certain cross platform AAA titles.

I don't really think it was totally short sighted of MS not to included a high capacity disc medium in the 360, it meant of course they could make a very affordable console, but I do think Sony made a good move including Blu-ray with the PS3. Its made it a costly bit of kit, especially when it was launched, but it was a decision made with the best interests of gamers in mind. Be interesting to see what storage medium the next gen of consoles come with. Sony have all but said the PS4 will still come with an optical drive. 

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2011, 07:33:52 PM »
Sorry Six, I should have said online Co-op, not MP, and I agree the game Story/Campaign should be the main focus not the fart-arsing about in an online arena, but as this gaming gen (of people) get older, the less likely they are to run over to their mates house to play whatever on their Console, cramped on a split screen when you can relax at home with your feet up on the sofa, being served the beverage of your choice by either Ayumi Hamasaki or that Pinoy chick from the Pussycat dolls*, playing a decent co-op game with them instead (unless their Sister is hot). This area is a joy for me personally as most of the peeps I play with are located in the UK. This fact is what drove me to the XBox in the first place.
There is still plenty of room for improvement in this area, imagine a game like GTAIV where 6 of you are cometing for one mission job in the Campaign storymode. Difficult to visualize now but one day.....

I think this is the area the next Gen of Consoles should be focusing on, not cack like 3D which I feel is just a gimmick.

* [spoiler]Sorry, I don't know why I torture myself like this.[/spoiler]

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2011, 08:00:09 PM »
The problem with customization on consoles (as far as I'm concerned) is the laborious nature of it, primarily down to the method of imput, controllers just aren't suited to it, much like RTS games, they need to call a spade a spade and chuck a mouse, or some kind of multi-cursor hand bay thingy (a mouse ball for each finger of one hand perhaps, that way you could get shit done a lot faster) in with a machine/game focused on user created stuff.

Some people do knock out incredible things in spite of it though, a few of the user created maps on Far Cry 2 for example are fucking insane, but to encourage people on they need to be more accessible, quicker, more PC-like to use.

Mister Six

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2011, 08:17:30 PM »
I do think Sony made a good move including Blu-ray with the PS3. Its made it a costly bit of kit, especially when it was launched, but it was a decision made with the best interests of gamers in mind.

No, it was made with the best interests of Sony in mind. It was in their interests to encourage people to buy Blu-Ray, after all.

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2011, 08:26:32 PM »
No, it was made with the best interests of Sony in mind. It was in their interests to encourage people to buy Blu-Ray, after all.
Indeed. Wasn't Microsoft involved with the proposed HD-DVD rival to Blu-Ray?

mobias

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2011, 08:50:28 PM »
No, it was made with the best interests of Sony in mind. It was in their interests to encourage people to buy Blu-Ray, after all.

 But it was also clearly in the interests of gamers and game developers. It cost them a massive fortune to include Blu-ray so it was a gamble. The PS3 still sells at a huge loss even today. Not that my heart bleeds for them of course but I'm certainly happy with my PS3's Blu-ray player. It was money well spent as far as I'm concerned.

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2011, 08:54:06 PM »
But it was also clearly in the interests of gamers and game developers. It cost them a massive, massive fortune to include Blu-ray so it was a gamble. The PS3 still sells at a huge loss even today.
But they'll rake it in when they own the monopoly on the data format[nb]Is this the right term?[/nb] for the next decade, especially if everyone else is using it.

mobias

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2011, 08:59:24 PM »
But they'll rake it in when they own the monopoly on the data format[nb]Is this the right term?[/nb] for the next decade, especially if everyone else is using it.

Except that with online distribution Blu-ray may not be around for a decade, be surprised if it was. It probably won't be needed in five years time.

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2011, 09:00:33 PM »
I wonder if Blockbuster got any back-handers since they basically chose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD and killed the latter? Although it's academic to them since they're bankrupt now.

Re: the new PSP, I've used my PSP1 pretty much non-stop since I got it 5 years ago, but recently have started to find the dated graphics a bit of a turn-off since I'm otherwise playing recent PC titles on a good graphics card, this new one looks mega powerful though, hoping it's not too pricey.

Mister Six

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2011, 09:29:56 PM »
But it was also clearly in the interests of gamers and game developers. It cost them a massive fortune to include Blu-ray so it was a gamble. The PS3 still sells at a huge loss even today.

No, it benefited gamers and developers, but it was done in the interests of Sony. They wanted to push forward their proprietary format and ensure that it knocked HD-DVD out of the park. The PS3 - the follow-up to the biggest-selling console of the previous generation - was a massive weapon in that battle. And consoles always sell at a loss - the money's made back on licensing and in-house development. The Wii's the only console that's been sold at a profit for years.

Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #85 on: January 28, 2011, 05:43:29 PM »
Except that with online distribution Blu-ray may not be around for a decade, be surprised if it was. It probably won't be needed in five years time.
Won't be needed by you or I, probably, but let's not forget all the gamers who can't get online, especially in poorer emerging markets across the globe. Manufacturers would be fools to ignore them.
I'm not so sure this download only future is as rosy as everyone thinks it could be. If one of my discs get scratched, it's just that one game/movie, but if my hard drive goes kaput, I lose everything. Also, considering downloaded products don't require the additional costs of shipping and box/manual/disc making, shouldn't prices drop by a fair bit? I'm sure manufacturers will find an excuse to bump the price up. Worst of all, when the products are linked to our accounts and no physical copies are being made anymore, the cheap second hand market will die.

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #86 on: January 28, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »
If you use Steam or PSN, for example, you don't lose the games when your HD goes, that's the point. You can just redownload them. Not even the chance of a scratched disc. You probably wouldn't even have to worry about your saves if some sort of system was implemented to keep them in the cloud...

The problem crops up when your chosen delivery service fails, of course.

Still Not George

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #87 on: January 28, 2011, 08:45:40 PM »
Worst of all, when the products are linked to our accounts and no physical copies are being made anymore, the cheap second hand market will die.

Which is of course the main point of the exercise.

Mister Six

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #88 on: January 28, 2011, 10:10:50 PM »
Which is of course the main point of the exercise.

Perfect combination of message, avatar and user title.

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Re: The Next Generation of Consoles
« Reply #89 on: February 01, 2011, 03:08:01 PM »
I think the next step for games is to make just about everything interactive. I mean, you have games in which interiors are really detailed and games in which exteriors are really detailed. In some you can jump over things, or climb, or fly or drive. But there is no game in which you can do everything. Or is there?
I think it's getting there with each generation of game engine. I mean with things like Half Life 2, the physics engine allowed players to muck around in the game that you'd never really seen before. So with the growth of middleware tools even though the games are getting more and more complex, the libraries which can be used allow you to do these tasks easier.