Dodgy race bits in old films, Boss

[Ignatius_S]

Blaxploitation probaly deserves its own thread, the seventies were intresting though none of that lets pretend black people can't spell bullshit that liberals fucking use to excuse the failings of the public school system.

in the us became

because in those days no-one gave a shit about lynching Native Americans

Yup, think that would be worth a thread of it's own.

The Christie example you gave isn't a good one, as the name was changed a year after the book was first published, to And Then There Were None – this change was made by an American publisher.

It's also been published and filmed as Ten Little Indians, as per the second image. Incidentally, that's a British film, not American.

The first film version was called And Then There Were None – it's absolutely super with a lot of humour and was an American production.

[Desi Rascal]

 Ta for the info, thats rankled for over 30 years, the rename to indians is obviously based on the nursery rhyme which kind of makes me wonder why she chose the original title

[Dead kate moss]

'And Then There Were None' is arguably a better title anyway. Especially for a movie adaptation for the masses who might be unaware of the rhyme, or Agatha Christie's work, and might be forgiven for saying 'Hey lets go see that movie about the ten indian/black midgets.'

[Detective John Kimble]

No mention of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's yet?  Oh well, it'll have to be me then!



As revered as the film is, there's bound to be a lot of mumbling and staring down at shoes from even the biggest fans of the movie when Mr. Yunioshi is brought up.  "GORIGHTRY!"

[SavageHedgehog]

Shockingly there was a "homage" to that character in I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry, played by none other than Rob Schneider. I guess they were using the "we know it's bad so it's OK" rationale.

Joel Grey also did a "yellowface" character in the relatively recent (1985) Remo Williams, but at least he was playing a cool, respectable character.

[Mister Six]

Joel Grey also did a "yellowface" character in the relatively recent (1985) Remo Williams, but at least he was playing a cool, respectable character.

Yeah. Never seen the film, but I remember chuckling at some of the quotes on IMDB.

Chiun: It would be better for you to eat this can than what is inside of it. Why must everything in this country be coated with monositi-... monosoti...
Remo Williams: Monosodium glutamate. You can't even say it.
Chiun: I can say "rat droppings." That does not mean I want to eat them.

Remo Williams: Chiun, you're incredible!
Chiun: No, I am better than that.

Chiun: The trained mind does not need a watch. Watches are a confidence trick invented by the Swiss.

[Ignatius_S]

Peter Lorre played Mr Moto, a Japanese detective in several films. The character wasn't played in a derogatory way and I thought that stereotyping was largely avoided – unlike the Charlie Chan films, which were very popular at the same time.

I'm not sure how many times it happened, but I remember Moto being underestimated because of his race more than once by other characters. I also remember that sometimes others would openly display racist behaviour towards Moto.

On a tangent, when I saw the first film, there was one bit that shocked/surprised me. In it, Moto is on a ship undercover and but a member of the gang, he's after who's he after, who's also a member of the crew, realises who is is – they get into a fight and he wins. At this point, I was thinking 'Yeah, but how is he going to shut him up? They have days to get to their destination.' and then came my answer – Moto picked him up and threw him overboard to his death. Now, this is rather different to just about all films at the time, where the hero would only kill in self-defence and not when the enemy was defeated. The hero normally wouldn't kill in cold blood like this and I thought it made a very refreshing change.

Lorre's good friend, Boris Karloff also went yellowface in a few films as Mr Wong, a detective - a series trying to cash in on the popularly of the Chan and Moto films. Karloff's portrayal was rather dignified... and of course, he also played Fu Manchu.

Ta for the info, thats rankled for over 30 years, the rename to indians is obviously based on the nursery rhyme which kind of makes me wonder why she chose the original title

A pleasure – actually, I got quite interested in this when I realised that the Oliver Reed film version was actually called And There Were None, rather than Ten Little Indians, which a lot of people called it.

That first film version is great – they had it on television fairly recently and it was really a comedic murder-mystery.

Why Christie gave it the first title, I don't know – but I guess whether it wasn't considered offensive in the same way as in America. I had a lot and did spot this on Wikipedia:

British editions continued to use the work's original title until the 1980s and the first British edition to use the alternative title And Then There Were None appeared in 1985 with a reprint of the 1963 Fontana Paperback.[10] Today And Then There Were None is the title most commonly used.[citation needed] However, the original title survives in many foreign-language versions of the novel: for example, the Greek title is Δέκα Μικροί Νέγροι, the Bulgarian title is Десет малки негърчета, the Spanish title is Diez negritos, the Romanian title is Zece negri mititei,[11] the French title is Dix petits nègres[12] and the Hungarian title is Tíz kicsi néger, while the Italian title, Dieci piccoli indiani, mirrors the "Indians" title. The Dutch 18th edition of 1994 still used the work's original English title Ten Little n**gers. The 1987 Russian film adaptation has the title Десять негритят (Desyat Negrityat). The computer adventure game based on the novel uses "Ten Little Sailor Boys".

It also says that now in the book, the rhyme is 'Ten little Soldiers'.

Also, the fictional island takes its name from the rhyme so in the way Christie wrote it, ten people accept an invitation to go and stay on n**ger Island.

[Dead kate moss]

Also, the fictional island takes its name from the rhyme so in the way Christie wrote it, ten people accept an invitation to go and stay on n**ger Island.

They were finding it hard to attract tourists for some reason.

[Nelson Swillie]

Jeez, I hope nobody on here ever watches Fight For Your Life (1977)!

[madhair60]

Jeez, I hope nobody on here ever watches Fight For Your Life (1977)!

You don't watch Fight For Your Life as much as you do endure it.  For all its notoriety it's a very tedious experience.

[Lee Van Cleef]

Peter Lorre played Mr Moto, a Japanese detective in several films. The character wasn't played in a derogatory way and I thought that stereotyping was largely avoided – unlike the Charlie Chan films, which were very popular at the same time.

I'm not sure how many times it happened, but I remember Moto being underestimated because of his race more than once by other characters. I also remember that sometimes others would openly display racist behaviour towards Moto.

On a tangent, when I saw the first film, there was one bit that shocked/surprised me. In it, Moto is on a ship undercover and but a member of the gang, he's after who's he after, who's also a member of the crew, realises who is is – they get into a fight and he wins. At this point, I was thinking 'Yeah, but how is he going to shut him up? They have days to get to their destination.' and then came my answer – Moto picked him up and threw him overboard to his death. Now, this is rather different to just about all films at the time, where the hero would only kill in self-defence and not when the enemy was defeated. The hero normally wouldn't kill in cold blood like this and I thought it made a very refreshing change.

Lorre's good friend, Boris Karloff also went yellowface in a few films as Mr Wong, a detective - a series trying to cash in on the popularly of the Chan and Moto films. Karloff's portrayal was rather dignified... and of course, he also played Fu Manchu.
A pleasure – actually, I got quite interested in this when I realised that the Oliver Reed film version was actually called And There Were None, rather than Ten Little Indians, which a lot of people called it.

That first film version is great – they had it on television fairly recently and it was really a comedic murder-mystery.

Why Christie gave it the first title, I don't know – but I guess whether it wasn't considered offensive in the same way as in America. I had a lot and did spot this on Wikipedia:
It also says that now in the book, the rhyme is 'Ten little Soldiers'.

Also, the fictional island takes its name from the rhyme so in the way Christie wrote it, ten people accept an invitation to go and stay on n**ger Island.

I thought Lorre played Moto as a rather dignified and intellectual character.  Some of the background Chinese and Native characters were kind of disregarded and not really given much heed but I struggle to think of a dodgy race bit that really sticks out like a sore thumb.  If anything I thought some of the typical buffoons that took the spot of Moto's sidekick were the paper thin stereotypes.

[Ambient Sheep]

It's racist inasmuch as it's portraying a black woman in a stereotypical role as a menial.

Although being English I always assumed that she was the homeowner.

I'm with Mister Six on this one: I grew up making the same assumption.  Why shouldn't a black lady own a nice big house like that?  It never occurred to me that for various reasons that might be highly unlikely in 1940s America.

A while back I read an article about it all (linked to by either difbrook or Lt. Plonker) which said that in some of them they'd not only redubbed the accent as Irish, but also actually gone to the bother of re-drawing them to make the lady white instead.  That, to me, is arguably more offensive, literally airbrushing the black character out of history.

So I was pleased to see, when catching some of them on Boomerang recently, that both legs and accent remained intact, and only a "blackface after an oven explosion" gag was noticeably cut.


A couple of old threads I found:
Tom and Jerry censorship (two other users thought the same as me and Mister Six, and a third thought she was a Biffo-like bear!)[nb]EDIT: That's not supposed to be so much an Argumentum ad populum, as a reassurance that the cartoon probably didn't have the effect it was (unconsciously) meant to on at least some of the U.K.'s youth![/nb]
Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies - The Censored 11

[Cerys]

I'm with Mister Six on this one: I grew up making the same assumption.  Why shouldn't a black lady own a nice big house like that?

This.  It only occurred to me years later - and even then because of a conversation much like this one.

[SavageHedgehog]

What with old cartoons not being known for their continuity, in some of them she did own the house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvWMRTCyCMQ

[Dead kate moss]

^ Jerry should remember it is not his house, and neither is he an invited guest. In fact his presence is unwanted and often frightening to the actual occupants, and if he does not want a cat jazz party to disturb his sleep perhaps he should move out and pay for his own accommodation. 

[Cerys]

What if Jerry was already living there when Mammy and Tom invaded?

[NoSleep]

A squatter?

[Dead kate moss]

If he is in fact the legal owner or tenant, then he has my sympathy, and is entitled to pursue legal action. However, repeatedly  engaging in spade, hot iron or dynamite-related combat with the interlopers may damage his case, as well as his property.

[Cerys]

Self-defence.  Not a jury in the land, etc etc.

[Dead kate moss]

I fear however unbiased they were instructed to be, a jury would probably tend to side with the human over the disease-ridden vermin.

Then again, we are discussing an American jury and a black human.

[Gulftastic]

John Hughes films were never brilliant at showing anyone but middle class suburban white folks.

In 'Weird Science' the black characters are all pimp-like dudes from a rough arsed bar, and in Ferris Bueller's, aprt from the nurse at the school, black people are only allowed on screen to do a nice dance during Ferris's singing. Long Duk Dong in 16 Candles seems to bve some kind of relative of rhe Mickey Rouke character in Breakfast At Tiffanys.

[Dead kate moss]

My ex was on the soundtrack to Weird Science. She has also seen the cocks of all the male cast of The Breakfast Club except the teacher, and says Anthony Michael Hall's was the biggest.

[waste of chops]

Pffft, who hasn't seen the cocks of all the male cast of The Breakfast Club?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf-PK9KPGlA

[vrailaine]

was originally to be entitled "The Clansmen"?

To be? Wasn't it called the Clansman at it's premiere?

...
Yes, yes it was.

[Petey Pate]

What with old cartoons not being known for their continuity, in some of them she did own the house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvWMRTCyCMQ

By the way that's an edited version of the cartoon in which the original Lilian Randolph voice is dubbed by someone else to make the dialogue less "negracious".  I couldn't find the original version online anywhere but here are some cartoons where the original voice of Mammy is intact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScLSTzMaq-8&feature=related

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4777381492883177158#

However, the most racist Tom and Jerry is without a doubt this entry.  It's still funny as hell though, and weirdly I remember it being shown on Cartoon Network (though edited).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfviEnZ7cc&feature=related

[El Unicornio, mang]

John Hughes films were never brilliant at showing anyone but middle class suburban white folks.

In 'Weird Science' the black characters are all pimp-like dudes from a rough arsed bar, and in Ferris Bueller's, aprt from the nurse at the school, black people are only allowed on screen to do a nice dance during Ferris's singing. Long Duk Dong in 16 Candles seems to bve some kind of relative of rhe Mickey Rouke character in Breakfast At Tiffanys.

You've just reminded me of the bit in Hughes's Planes Trains and Automobiles where Steve Martin is running down the street and runs into this black kid who suddenly starts doing a wacky breakdance type thing in front of him

[SavageHedgehog]

  By the way that's an edited version of the cartoon in which the original Lilian Randolph voice is dubbed by someone else to make the dialogue less "negracious".  I couldn't find the original version online anywhere but here are some cartoons where the original voice of Mammy is intact.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The original is on there but in awful quality. But she still talks about it being her house there so my point still stands.

And yes, Cartoon Network in the UK did air His Mouse Friday uncut back in the 1990s. I also saw this shocker uncut: midday once
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsL9xyBmsIY

[Petey Pate]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The original is on there but in awful quality. But she still talks about it being her house there so my point still stands.

And yes, Cartoon Network in the UK did air His Mouse Friday uncut back in the 1990s. I also saw this shocker uncut: midday once
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsL9xyBmsIY

Wow, I'm amazed that they ever showed Droopy's Good Deed uncut, as I only ever saw it edited in the UK (the first two 'black face' gags were left intact though).  Another Tom and Jerry which always aired edited was The Milky Waif which has a whole scene where Jerry and the little orphan mouse disguise as black maids.

It seems that MGM used cheap 'black face' gags more than any other classic Hollywood cartoon studio. The joke is just that the characters look like stereotypical negroes.  At least when WB did them, they would usually become an impression of Eddie 'Rochester' Anderson or some other current black celebrity. 


Come to think of it did Boomerang UK ever go ahead with editing out all the Tom and Jerry smoking scenes? I haven't had access to the channel for a while so I've not noticed.