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"Forbrydelsen (The Killing)" - Danish crime drama

Started by surreal, January 29, 2011, 02:27:10 PM

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surreal

Quite surprised there hasn't been a mention of this.  It started last Saturday on BBC4 at 9pm - I don't normally watch TV on a Saturday evening but decided to give it a look and it had me hooked.  I didn't realise it was in 20 parts, but very glad that it will be given space to develop as the first 2 episodes were (imho) well paced giving an air of menace to the whole thing.  I think it's going to be a must watch.  It's in Danish with subtitles

BBC4 are showing it in 2 episode chunks on a Saturday, and the iplayer  listing says it will be up until April (presumably when it's all done) so plenty of time to catch up.

Article in the Guardian here explains things much better than I can, and a poorly-narrated English-language trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IZUWkghFeQ&NR=1

best watched with the sound down.

Lee Van Cleef

Looks good.  I'll have to download the first two episodes from iplayer and sky+ the rest.  Cheers for the heads up.

Small Man Big Horse

#2
I fell in love with this around the fifth episode - I'd been enjoying it up to that point, but then it became essential viewing and I was racing through four or five episodes a night. The actress who plays Sophie Lund is consistently astonishing, especially after all the character's put through, and the mystery never felt tricksy - for every dead end, a new destination in the investigation always felt natural and organic and never forced. Despite all that,
Spoiler alert
I was a tiny bit disappointed by the reveal, despite liking the character an awful lot part of me wanted it to be Troels (I know from episode 15 or so that's impossible, but before that it could well have been) as it would have been a great twist in that we'd been following the killer as well, and that he was such a sympathetic character. It being Vagn made a lot of sense though, I just wish the reveal had taken place an episode earlier and we'd discovered more about him. The transformation from annoying idiot to a cold blooded murder in the forest with Theis was chilling, and I'd like to have seen that explored more.
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I've downloaded the American version of the series too, I can't imagine sticking with it but I'm interested in seeing what they do with it - it's on AMC and getting good reviews, but I still doubt it will be anywhere near as good as the original.

I'm seven episodes in to the sequel, the imaginatively titled The Killing II, and it's okay. I mean, it's head and shoulders above what this sort of thing is normally like, and Lund is still a fantastic character to follow (
Spoiler alert
if a little more fragile this time around
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), as is new sidekick Strange, but the reduction to ten episodes has led to a lot of the smaller, more intimate moments (like the glimpses we saw of the relationship between Theis and Pernille) being sadly absent. And the political element takes a little while to get going, and the politician isn't as likable as Troels (despite looking like the love child of Timothy Spall and Richard Herring), but with three episodes to go I can't wait to see how it will all end.

Frustratingly the subtitling isn't very good - the first few episodes seemed fine bar the odd grammatical error, but now it's all over the place, here's an example of a typically mangled piece:



And even more damningly they haven't even bothered to translate some parts if the dialogue is spoken very quickly. I can't remember where I got mine from (Demonoid, I think, but maybe tvjunkie) but I don't suppose anyone's found a decent version?

Edit: Just found one now on a subs site - it really does make such a difference! I'm not sure if anyone's watching this, or had the same problems, or if I'm allowed to post links to subtitle sites, but if someone does want them, just pm me.

Edit Again: Ignore what I said about the second season, developments towards the end of it makes it all worthwhile. And then some.

Mildly Diverting

Just finished the first season - absolutely brilliant,
Spoiler alert
until it turned into the end of Se7en!!! I half expected David Fincher to jump out with a writ!
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Apart from that, blooming marvellous.

Small Man Big Horse

Yeah, I have my reservations about
Spoiler alert
the ending, but given the context I don't mind too much, and from an early stage I didn't think Theis's story would have any sort of a happy (or vaguely hopeful) ending.
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I've just finished the second season and loved it,
Spoiler alert
and the ending is incredibly satisfying this time around
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. I won't say any more for the time being though, at least until a few more people have seen it. As mentioned above, this season does take a little time to get going, but the final half is some of the best tv I've seen. At least in this genre. I'm really looking forward to the third season now, and have confidence that they'll be able to pull it off.

So has anyone else seen it? I've heard some say that it's better than The Wire, but I need to give that a second go (I will, I promise), so don't know myself.

Santa's Boyfriend

I watched it with 2 friends each week over a bottle of wine (or 3 bottles on one slightly messy occasion) and loved every minute of it.  Sarah Lund was a fantastic character, but all of them were really well drawn.  If I had any criticism of the series it's that it was too long.  I liked the length in a way as it allowed the story to breathe, but it was definitely starting to feel a bit dragged out by the tenth episode.
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It felt like practically every character in the show was implicated at some point.  One witty commentator said that you're not really into the show until you suspect Sarah Lund herself of having a role in the murder.
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The thing is though, in episode one
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right near the beginning Traoels commented to his assistant that he had new shoes on.  I joked to my friends that he must be the killer.  It was an odd moment and we kept making jokes about it,
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but throughout the series he became
Spoiler alert
known to us as "the shoe guy". 
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We became obsessed with this little detail.  It was never actually mentioned in the end,
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but I just always knew it would be relevant in some way.
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Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Santa's Boyfriend on May 09, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
The thing is though, in episode one
Spoiler alert
right near the beginning Traoels commented to his assistant that he had new shoes on.  I joked to my friends that he must be the killer.  It was an odd moment and we kept making jokes about it,
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but throughout the series he became
Spoiler alert
known to us as "the shoe guy". 
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We became obsessed with this little detail.  It was never actually mentioned in the end,
Spoiler alert
but I just always knew it would be relevant in some way.
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Ooh, good spot, I didn't notice that. I've also read on imdb that during the first couple of episodes
Spoiler alert
the killer has a plaster on his neck (presumably covering up Nana's scratches), so they suspected him from early on, but it was something else which passed me by
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.

I've just read on wiki that the third season won't start until late 2012. Obviously it's good to take your time over such things, but that will make it three years from when II aired.

Santa's Boyfriend

Were they going to make series 3 before it got broadcast internationally?  I mean, now it's been a big hit in the UK (and Germany too I think) it makes sense to make more of them!

Small Man Big Horse


hundred

I haven't seen the original, but I am watching the US remake which is episodes in, and is very good. The one complaint is that the scenes with the grieving family are really drawn out and I often find myself skipping forward a minute or two as they're very laboured.

Does the original series do this?

Also, there seems to be a suspect involved with a terror plot and muslims (could be wrong, the latest episode ending suggested this), is this also in the original? Just want to know how strrict a remake it is.

Small Man Big Horse

#10
Quote from: hundred on May 10, 2011, 12:37:19 PM
I haven't seen the original, but I am watching the US remake which is episodes in, and is very good. The one complaint is that the scenes with the grieving family are really drawn out and I often find myself skipping forward a minute or two as they're very laboured.

Does the original series do this?

It does, but I found them incredibly powerful in the original. There's less of them as the series goes on, which admittedly was a relief as some parts of the first few episodes are relentlessly distressing.

Quote
Also, there seems to be a suspect involved with a terror plot and muslims (could be wrong, the latest episode ending suggested this), is this also in the original? Just want to know how strict a remake it is.

I don't want to give anything away, but the following is only a minor spoiler -
Spoiler alert
the muslim community is an aspect that is covered in the series, but it's not related to a terror plot.
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Edit: Blimey, there's a 123 page thread on the series on Digital Spy - http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1425370 - come on Whores, surely we can at least get to 2 pages on here!

Caroline

Ok, I just finished season one today and really enjoyed it, especially liked seeing the places where you can still smoke in Denmark, my favourite being a school library.

However I have a couple of questions, I might be being thick but a few things bugged me at the end.

Spoiler alert
1. Who killed Olav then?
2. If Holck didn't kill Nanna, why did he say he did?
3. Was the stuff about Theis killing someone years ago just a red herring?
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Thanks whores!

Johnny Textface

I've just finished the US series. Which I really enjoyed. Has anyone seen both the US and original series? How does the US one compare? Is it worth watching the original now I've finished the US one?

Spoiler alert
So, er, who did it then? Thanks for not resolving the plot after 13 hours!
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hundred

Quote from: Johnny Textface on July 25, 2011, 02:19:24 PM
I've just finished the US series. Which I really enjoyed. Has anyone seen both the US and original series? How does the US one compare? Is it worth watching the original now I've finished the US one?

Spoiler alert
So, er, who did it then? Thanks for not resolving the plot after 13 hours!
[close]

I thought it tailed off towards the end, and the ep where Sarah's son went missing seemed to be pure filler. The last episode was so frustrating.
Spoiler alert
Not finding out who the killer is at the end of a series like this is taking the piss. And they turned Holder (the best thing about it) into a bad guy, but didn't show who he was working for. Sarah knows the photo was fake so they'll just release the mayor right? They've no concrete evidence. It's almost like the finale was meant to be the penultimate episode, and the loose ends are going to be tied up in one more episode
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Johnny Textface

Yeah agree about Holder
Spoiler alert
and his out of the blue villain arc.
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Spoiler alert
Maybe the unresolved plot helped the producers bag another season?
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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/killing-renewed-second-season-200867

turnstyle

I'm watching the US version of this, purely to annoy the purists.

Funcrusher

Just finished watching the first series (Forbrydelsen) and thoroughly enjoyed it, although the plot is a little contrived in places in order to generate cliffhangers.

This article in today's Metro seems to bear out the main conclusion I came away with - Danish people's eyes are huge. Maybe it's partly because I was watching on a laptop up close, but I was constantly noticing it, particularly Lund and Pernille.

I shall seek out part two.

Johnny Textface

Quote from: Funcrusher on July 27, 2011, 10:23:01 PM
Just finished watching the first series (Forbrydelsen) and thoroughly enjoyed it, although the plot is a little contrived in places in order to generate cliffhangers.

This article in today's Metro seems to bear out the main conclusion I came away with - Danish people's eyes are huge. Maybe it's partly because I was watching on a laptop up close, but I was constantly noticing it, particularly Lund and Pernille.

I shall seek out part two.

Just out of interest,
Spoiler alert
did the plot resolve satisfactorily?
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AlterEgg

Quote from: Johnny Textface on July 25, 2011, 03:52:03 PM

Spoiler alert
Maybe the unresolved plot helped the producers bag another season?
[close]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/killing-renewed-second-season-200867

Thats just lazy and infuriating though. I
Spoiler alert
though the whole LOST format was becoming unpopular but it takes really good writing to conclude a series and then start again with a different story line, dare I mention The Wire.
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To add more to the unexplained questions
Spoiler alert
who cut the electricty cables out side Lund's flat?
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. But may be this was just paranoia on her part.


Funcrusher

Quote from: Johnny Textface on July 28, 2011, 11:28:57 AM
Just out of interest,
Spoiler alert
did the plot resolve satisfactorily?
[close]

It felt emotionally and dramatically satisfying while watching it, but it did leave a fair few questions unanswered. i think the series big strength is great performances from a great cast and efficient building of suspense.

Does a version of the second series with decent english subs exist? I've seen a lot of criticism of the original subtitles as really bad. Is there a better version -preferably one where they're hard whatevered, rather than some shit where i have to paste in some file, cause i can never get that to work.


Inaniloquent

Quote from: Johnny Textface on July 28, 2011, 11:28:57 AM
Just out of interest,
Spoiler alert
did the plot resolve satisfactorily?
[close]

Yes.

Spoiler alert
To leave the plot unresolved was a weird decision of the AMC version, but the Danish one is wrapped up.
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I wasn't a big fan of the US one, though it started out quite well. I liked Holder. They're just trying to put too many bells and whistles all over the subtlety of the original; they're the experts, maybe subtlety just doesn't work in the US.

I haven't found a good Season 2 sub yet :( BBC4 are showing it 'late summer/early Autumn' which can't be that long.

Season 3 starts shooting in August :)

gepree

For anyone who missed it the first time round, The Killing (Forbrydelsen) Series 1 will be repeated on BBC4 starting Sunday 21 August 2011 at 10pm.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xzy0f

hpmons

Haven't read any of the above just in case there's spoilers not in spoiler tags...

Just watched Episode 6.  Enjoying it so far, though the red herrings have gotten on my nerves. 
Spoiler alert
I assume it isn't the teacher since the series is 20 episodes long - which makes it...the third major red herring?  The ex-boyfriend bit was just ridiculous, they had a video recording of someone wearing Nanna's hat, sexing Nanna's ex-boyfriend in the place where they had suspected Nanna was being held...  Ends on that cliffhanger, then resolved in the next episode within five minutes.
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Inaniloquent

Spoiler alert
There are many herrings, and yeah - it's not a big leap to realise 'it can't be the teacher' given the length of the series. You can still enjoy watching the teacher dig himself further in the shit, though, and have some 'how can it NOT be him?' moments. His arc also raises other questions beyond those of simply having the wrong suspect for a bit.

Later herrings will actually have an air of plausibility, although I did eventually get a bit frustrated with the idea - and this is common in all crime dramas - that the moment anyone's brought in for even the lightest, kindest of questioning, they all start with the 'NO I WON'T TELL YOU ANYTHING EVER ANYTHING NOPE NO SIRREE BOB'.
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Endicott

It's a shame I can't read this thread, as I'm watching the S1 repeat on BBC4 and it's only half-way through.
Spoiler alert
I do not believe it's Hartmann, though.
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Aploplectic

Just finished watching this.  I thought it was really good and I was pleased that the ending wasn't a let down after so many twists
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(although I did immediately suspect Vagn simply due to him being played by the only actor that I recognised.)
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The only criticism I have is that
Spoiler alert
the constant cycle of prime suspects really began to stretch credibility.  The idea that that number of people would have tried to keep secrets from the police during a murder investigation seems unbelievable – many of them were even failing to reveal things after they had been arrested for the crime.  The classmates, the teacher, Troels, Olav, Jan Holck, Leon... all of them not only failed to report important information but continued to lie once they were clearly suspects.  Even Theis didn't tell the police about Nanna working in the nightclub – would he really have kept things from the investigation?  Even if some of this behaviour can be justified, the behaviour of Jan Holck makes no sense – it is understandable that he hid his affair with Nanna, but he attacked Lund, tied her up (with the same ties that had been used in the murder), and made her wait on the concrete floor before dragging her towards the car boot.  Let's remember that, until that point, he was entirely innocent.  It was ridiculous.
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It now sounds like I have major problems with the series, when I really didn't.  Occasional plot silliness aside I thoroughly enjoyed it, there were a number of really great, shocking scenes and the characters were all complex and interesting.  I'll definitely be watching the second series.

Lt Plonker

Quote from: Caroline on June 26, 2011, 09:17:01 PM

Spoiler alert
1. Who killed Olav then?
2. If Holck didn't kill Nanna, why did he say he did?
3. Was the stuff about Theis killing someone years ago just a red herring?
[close]


Spoiler alert

1. Was that Holck? Lund found the car in the warehouse/garage just as she was waiting for Holck to retrieve a list of names. Was that his house?
2. Did he actually say that he did? I can't remember. In retrospect, I'm not sure I understand why he behaved the way he did. There's panicing and then there's completely losing all sense of reason.

[close]

kngen

Spoiler alert
Holck did kill Olav though - so that, and having an affair with a murdered girl, thus placing him as a prime suspect could, I suppose, send him a bit mental - they did intimate that he'd had a bit of breakdown over his divorce, too.

I did suspect Vagn at the start, but they did a very good job of convincing me that it was anyone but him by the end - so that the Sarajevo 84 reveal came as quite a shock. But why did he tell the family about Anton finding the passport, then plant it outside Leon's house?
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Harpo Speaks

Quote from: kngen on September 19, 2011, 01:09:22 PM
Spoiler alert
Holck did kill Olav though - so that, and having an affair with a murdered girl, thus placing him as a prime suspect could, I suppose, send him a bit mental - they did intimate that he'd had a bit of breakdown over his divorce, too.
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Even so, it was a bit of a stretch.

Quote
Spoiler alert
so that the Sarajevo 84 reveal came as quite a shock.
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That was an absolutely fantastic moment, possibly the best in the series.

Quote
Spoiler alert
But why did he tell the family about Anton finding the passport, then plant it outside Leon's house?
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Indeed.
Spoiler alert
I suppose it was because Pernille had already previously suspected him, that it sounded better coming from him than Anton, while also giving him the chance to pile up more evidence against Leon.
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Still, despite some flaws, I thought it was a great series, very well acted with some brilliant moments -
Spoiler alert
e.g just when you thought they'd chickened out of killing Meyer with that cigarette lighter thing, they turn around and kill him off at the end of the episode.
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I'm really going to miss Lund with her big beautiful eyes and chunky knitwear.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Harpo Speaks on September 20, 2011, 01:06:06 AM
I'm really going to miss Lund with her big beautiful eyes and chunky knitwear.

The second season's already aired in Denmark, and a third (and final) one is on it's way next year. I didn't think the second series was quite as good, though it's only 10 episodes this time around and so a little bit tighter.