O (new) Superman

[Phil_A]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a301053/henry-cavill-chosen-to-play-superman.html

Yep, the new Superman for the upcoming Snyderfied reboot is...this guy.

[Phil_A]

Edit: Oops

[El Unicornio, mang]

So that's now three British actors chosen to play probably the three biggest American comic book heroes: Superman, Batman and Spider-Man.

[rjd2]

Superman was always a boring one dimensional stupid looking cunt, hopefully nobody I like is roped into doing this.

Seriously what is the appeal of this superhero?

[El Unicornio, mang]

The first two Christopher Reeve films were ace though. He is a bit of a dull character, but I think the fact that he is such a massively good guy makes him stand out amongst all the anti-heroes we've been given since the 70s.

[Mister Six]

Superman was always a boring one dimensional stupid looking cunt, hopefully nobody I like is roped into doing this.

Seriously what is the appeal of this superhero?

Superman, for the most part, works better as a symbol than a protagonist: a near omnipotent being who could enslave the entire planet without breaking a sweat, but who instead chooses to selflessly protect his adopted planet. It's a beautiful idea that Bryan Singer's 'absentee dad gets shived with Kryptonite' film didn't get right. It's not a concept that really deserves 70+ years of continual comic books, but it can be done right in short bursts - which is why film ought to be Superman's perfect medium.

If you want to see Superman being done right, go down to your local library and order All-Star Superman vol. 1 and 2. The series is comprised of only two books but together they sum up exactly what makes the Superman icon so enduring.

Alternatively, look at this page from the aforementioned comic... I can't find the one preceding it, but basically while Superman's flying about saving Metropolis from its latest villain we see a man, holed up in a building, frantically shouting into his phone for someone called Regan to calm down and that he'll be there as soon as he can. Then, after a few pages of biff-blammo action, you get this:

[Famous Mortimer]

If you want to see Superman being done right, go down to your local library and order All-Star Superman vol. 1 and 2. The series is comprised of only two books but together they sum up exactly what makes the Superman icon so enduring.

Without a shadow of a doubt, the best Superman story I've ever read (with the possible exception of Alan Moore's brief goes at it) and the best thing to come out of a major comic studio in donkey's years. You will almost certainly love this.

[SavageHedgehog]

This guy was nearly Superman last time round. He was also nearly Bond and apparently Batman. I guess he and his agent worked on the basis that if he went for enough iconic roles he'd luck out eventually. He seems like a right dullard to me, but than Reeve could be pretty bland to and I guess it's not the most challenging of roles.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Singer's film was over-reverent and frequently dull as dishwater, but in fariness to Brandon Routh I think he did a really good job...

[Jemble Fred]

Supes' biggest problem is the complete lack of any decent villains, beside the obvious baldie. There's Zod too of course, but you can't just remake Superman II.

And yet, I well recall loving the 90s Superman TV series, episode after episode. That surely can't be entirely down to my hormones and Teri Hatcher's breasts.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Singer's film was over-reverent and frequently dull as dishwater, but in fariness to Brandon Routh I think he did a really good job...

I agree with that. Routh's performance deserved a better film and it's a bit of a shame shame that he won't get the opportunity now. But then it was as an imitation of Reeve that it was good, so it makes sense to recast the role if they're starting from scratch.

[Phil_A]

Supes' biggest problem is the complete lack of any decent villains, beside the obvious baldie. There's Zod too of course, but you can't just remake Superman II.

No, I think the problem is that Superman's most inventive villains were wacky silver age characters like Mister Mxyzptlk and Bizarro, which wouldn't really work in the context of a "straight" Superman movie. Although I would definitely watch a film in which Bizarro was the main villain.

[Jemble Fred]

Yes, but none of Superman's numerous nemeses are ever going to be the kind of characters to set the rumour mills humming, are they? It's not like the constant game of guessing who'll be Catwoman etc. Lex Luthor is the one iconic Superman villain that people generally know. Maybe a minor point, but iconic villains do put bums on seats.

[SavageHedgehog]

But then it was as an imitation of Reeve that it was good, so it makes sense to recast the role if they're starting from scratch.

Oh, it's not going to be another bloody origin story is it?

[Santa's Boyfriend]

That's a great image.  I think I've always struggled with Superman because it's never really addressed the problems inherent in being an all-powerful superhero.  I know he isn't exactly meant to be a realistic character, but I still struggle with it, particularly the idea that Superman can't be everywhere at once, meaning he has to choose who he will save and who he won't.  I know Moore has addressed many of the issues with it, particularly in Marvelman, but still.  I don't have the money right now but if Grant Morrison addresses these things I might go to the library and put them on order.  I'm quite keen on reading Red Son, has anyone read it?  Is it any good?

[Phil_A]

I'm quite keen on reading Red Son, has anyone read it?  Is it any good?

Ehh, it's okay. I felt like it was a typical Millar high-concept story which starts out promisingly, but doesn't really develop beyond the initial premise. Nice art, though.

[Mister Six]

Singer's film was over-reverent and frequently dull as dishwater, but in fariness to Brandon Routh I think he did a really good job...

Yes, Routh was great and deserved a much better film, the poor sod. Singer's reverence is kind of odd - he goes to enormous pains to make a follow up to the first two Reeve films[nb]Which are a bit crap, to be honest. Tremendous fun but seriously in need of a re-write/[/nb] while jettisoning the screwball tone that made them such a delight. Singer plummeted in my estimation after I saw that (though I was never as into the X-films as everyone else apparently was).

[Mister Six]

That's a great image.  I think I've always struggled with Superman because it's never really addressed the problems inherent in being an all-powerful superhero.  I know he isn't exactly meant to be a realistic character, but I still struggle with it, particularly the idea that Superman can't be everywhere at once, meaning he has to choose who he will save and who he won't.  I know Moore has addressed many of the issues with it, particularly in Marvelman, but still.  I don't have the money right now but if Grant Morrison addresses these things I might go to the library and put them on order.

I don't know enough about the detail of your complaints to say whether All-Star Superman (its acronym, sadly, is ASS so I have to keep using the full title) will answer them all but I think Morrison's take on Superman is iconic enough and unique enough that you'll find it of interest despite your reservations. It basically takes the silver-age version of the character - the super-intelligent, near-omnipotent being who's always a couple of steps ahead of everyone else - and gives him the warm heart and upstanding morals of the modern-era one. It does a fantastic job of showing Superman as both a creature that's so terrifyingly powerful that he makes humans look like ants, and an open-hearted, charismatic and loving man who just wants everyone to be safe and happy. It's a brilliant balance - you're constantly aware that he's more 'super' than 'man' - that he dwarfs everyone around him with his intellectual and physical strength - and yet he never appears patronising or callous as Miracleman often did.

There's a flashback issue in Smallville where he comes to terms with the fact that he can't save everyone, no matter how hard he tries. A similar idea was explored by Garth Ennis (of all people; Superman seems to be the only hero that Ennis unequivocally loves) in his Hitman series. There are (fairly shitty, but readable) scans of that story, 'Of Thee I Sing' here.

The other great thing is that those two volumes are entirely self-contained[nb]Though if you know the ending of DC One Million you might spot a nice shout-out.[/nb] and written as a hypothetical ending to the Superman story, so it's literally the only Superman story you need ever read.

Also, it gets the entire Superman origin story done and dusted in four panels:



Red Son's just another Mark Millar story: good high concept, very little substance. I honestly think All-Star is the only genuinely brilliant Superman story I've ever read. I never even rated Moore's 'Whatever Happened...' much (as endings go, Morrison's shits all over Moore's from space).

[waste of chops]

A British actor playing Superman? Surely not this...?

[Mister Six]

That's a great image.  I think I've always struggled with Superman because it's never really addressed the problems inherent in being an all-powerful superhero.  I know he isn't exactly meant to be a realistic character, but I still struggle with it, particularly the idea that Superman can't be everywhere at once, meaning he has to choose who he will save and who he won't.  I know Moore has addressed many of the issues with it, particularly in Marvelman, but still.  I don't have the money right now but if Grant Morrison addresses these things I might go to the library and put them on order.  I'm quite keen on reading Red Son, has anyone read it?  Is it any good?

Supplementary to what I said above: it occurs to me that what you might be hoping for is a deconstruction of the Superman mythos, which is precisely what All-Star Superman is not. It's pretty much the opposite, actually - an entirely sincere love letter to Superman and everything he stands for. Which isn't, as it turns out, the abstract concepts of truth, justice and the American way but the very human ideals of honesty, compassion, selflessness and love. Don't go to it with a cynical eye or you'll do yourself and the comic a disservice.

[Small Man Big Horse]

A British actor playing Superman? Surely not this...?

Hah, that's very bizarre stuff, what's it from?

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_True_Brit

Co-written by John Cleese.

[Phil_A]

Although from what I heard at the time, "co-written" is rather overstating Cleese's involvement with the project. It's highly likely that what actually happened was he and Kim Johnson came up with a rough outline of a story which was then scripted by Byrne.

In any case, it was dire, whoever wrote it.

[thecuriousorange]

Now that they have an actor, they just need to choose a saga from the comics that has enough gravitas to be adapted for the big screen.

[waste of chops]

Well isn't it obvious?

[kidsick5000]

Although from what I heard at the time, "co-written" is rather overstating Cleese's involvement with the project. It's highly likely that what actually happened was he and Kim Johnson came up with a rough outline of a story which was then scripted by Byrne.

In any case, it was dire, whoever wrote it.

I heard it was even less than that. More "Dear Mr Cleese, can we put your name to this?"

I think Red Son is getting a tough break on here. It's got great ideas rather than just one concept. Luthor being more justified in his mistrust of Superman, Superman's misguided ideas of utopia and for a Millar book, a surprisingly strong ending that doesn't devolve into adolescent-style sex gags.


As long as Snyder can balance the huge threat with the quieter human moments then all should be fine.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

Supplementary to what I said above: it occurs to me that what you might be hoping for is a deconstruction of the Superman mythos, which is precisely what All-Star Superman is not. It's pretty much the opposite, actually - an entirely sincere love letter to Superman and everything he stands for. Which isn't, as it turns out, the abstract concepts of truth, justice and the American way but the very human ideals of honesty, compassion, selflessness and love. Don't go to it with a cynical eye or you'll do yourself and the comic a disservice.

I must admit you've got my interest.  I do have a lot of problems with superheroes, many of them summed up by the recent Iron Man movies.  Yes they're a lot of fun, but they're horribly right-wing, and self-contradictory in their ethos. Alan Moore described Iron Man as "a love letter to the Military Industrial Complex", and much as I enjoyed the films I can't help but agree.

As I've said I've always found the problems with Superman too big to get around, but I'd really like to try with this one now.  I'm not actually looking for a deconstruction of the Superman mythos if it can be done in a way that works, that addresses the issues I have but doesn't compromise the idea.  I also like the fact that it's self-contained, so yeah I think I'm going to give this one a go.

[Tiny Poster]

Although from what I heard at the time, "co-written" is rather overstating Cleese's involvement with the project. It's highly likely that what actually happened was he and Kim Johnson came up with a rough outline of a story which was then scripted by Byrne.

In any case, it was dire, whoever wrote it.

And crammed with wanky Python references - see the 'Bicycle Repair Man' gag above. Jesus.

I quite enjoyed Red Son, I thought it pulled through on the concept and had a cracking ending.

And can I millionth the recommendation for Morrison's All-Star Superman?

[SavageHedgehog]

I must admit you've got my interest.  I do have a lot of problems with superheroes, many of them summed up by the recent Iron Man movies.  Yes they're a lot of fun, but they're horribly right-wing, and self-contradictory in their ethos. Alan Moore described Iron Man as "a love letter to the Military Industrial Complex", and much as I enjoyed the films I can't help but agree.

I've always thought it was strange that critics and film buffs seemed to have more or less completely ignored the right-leaning tone of the first Iron Man film.There's imagery in that which would have caused critics to flip their wig if it had been in a Stallone/Arnie/Michael Bay movie.

[Tiny Poster]

There's a Warren Ellis issue of Iron Man where Stark is interviewed by John Pilger ("Pillinger") about how faulty weaponry made earlier in his career is now being found by children in old battlefields.

He shows remorse, but after the interview is finished, he asks Pillinger "All these documentaries... do you think you've ever changed a thing?" And of course, the response is "I... I don't know." Tony Stark, of course, has battled the Hulk and saved the world from extradimensional whatsits, yadda yadda yadda.

Politics are a bit weird in worlds where superheroes exist, be they mechanically aided or have freaky powers.