Sonic Generations

[Spiteface]

The last couple of weeks has seen Sega unveil the next Sonic game proper, and the one that will mark Sonic's 20th anniversary.  Like the title of this thread, It is entitled "Sonic Generations":

Sonic Generations - Announcement Trailer

Yes, there are two Sonics in this one.  The hook for this game appears to be "Classic" Sonic (who looks adorable!) meets "Modern" Sonic.  There's a storyline to justify this concerning some holes in time made by an "unknown enemy".  The idea is that both versions will have differing gameplay:

Sonic Generations Extended gameplay footage

Basically Classic Sonic will be 2D platforming, much like the 16-bit Sonics, with his main moves being the spin attack and spin dash (no Sonic 3 "insta-shield though, it seems). It is said that this will be closer to that style than Sonic 4, by all accounts.  The stages featuring Modern Sonic look to be similar to the Daytime stages of Sonic Unleashed, and more recently, Sonic Colors, i.e. Sonic running really fucking fast and grinding on rails and that, with him being able to boost and use homing attacks.

It's pretty certain that these two Hedgehogs will be the only playable characters in the game, although other characters may appear as part of the story - so I think Tails and Knuckles will appear, although Unleashed didn't draw heavily on the huge cast.  I'd think Dr Eggman is a certainty, and my money is on the "unknown enemy" being Metal Sonic.

As it is being released to celebrate Sonic's 20th, the various stages of the game will be based on familiar locations of past games.  In time-honored tradition  the first one to be seen had to be Green Hill, which looks stunning going by that gameplay footage.  I would like to see some of the Sonic Adventure/Adventure 2 stages given an HD sheen.  City Escape from SA2 would look brilliant, especially the bit where you get chased by a massive truck.

Of course, Sonic's internet "fans" being as they are will bitch about the smallest thing, and hilariously this past week it was classic Sonic having a buckle on his shoe.  Yeah.  These are also the same people who bitched and whined when Sonic got green eyes.

Personally as a fan since the first game in 1991, I'm really excited for this.  Not having a Wii, I didn't get to play Sonic Colors, but I genuinely believed that Unleashed was a positive step in the right direction for Sonic, following the disaster that was Sonic '06 (funnily enough that was the last "anniversary" release).  The daytime stages were almost exactly what current-gen Sonic should be, if a bit too fixated on boosting and speed (contrary to popular belief, the best Sonic games were never purely about speed).  Sonic 4 was OK, but didn't get it quite right. To be honest, if they didn't bother with Episode 2 of that and just concentrated on this, I'd be fine with it.

I may or may not be the only one who cares about Sonic, but I am more excited about this than some generic FPS set in some war or something. or GTA and all that bollocks.

[madhair60]

"unknown enemy"

Might be swinging wildly here, but it's probably Doctor Eggman

[Slaaaaabs]

Sounds like a very good idea, no mention of extraneous "friends" either. Tails and Knuckles are welcome but the rest can fuck off.

Might be swinging wildly here, but it's probably Doctor Eggman

Pretty sure you can even see him on the rotating signpost at the end of the 2D level on that video above.

[madhair60]

I think this looks shit, btw.  Here's some scattered, unfocused thoughts based on this trailer.

More horrible physics.  The height Sonic gets is completely insane, and the momentum looks out of whack.

Can't deny it looks a bit better than the snippets, but I'd rather have good New Sonic than more failed imitations of Old Sonic. 

The Sonic model still looks weird to me

It's impossible for me to get excited about Green Hill anymore, and I can't understand why people still do.  We've seen this so many times and heard that music even more.  It's barely even re-orchestrated.

The alternate routes on display are welcome, but the whole level seems the same.

WOW @ Sonic clipping through the tree at 1:21.  I realise this is most likely pre-alpha but sheeeesh.

Hope you can turn off that PLINK PLINK PLINK.  Ugh @ New Sonic in general, just seems so boring and linear - I like linear, but this is pretty much a corridor.

This is basically Sonic Unleashed, but in recognisable environments.  Which is fine, I guess, if you like Sonic Unleashed.  Which no sane person does.

I swear - these levels may as well be cutscenes for all the interactivity they display.

How many times have we seen Sonic speeding into the camera, being chased by a giant enemy, now?  Is it still impressive?  Who sees this stuff and goes "wow"?

Sonic Colours looked more appealing than this.  This is a PS3 game, and it looks aesthetically and, astonishingly, graphically worse than a Wii game.

[mikeyg27]

Semi-related: is Sonic Adventure any good? A lot of the Sega games (including all the Sonic games) on Xbox Live are half price at the minute, and it intrigued me (although I'll probably just get Crazy Taxi instead).

[madhair60]

No, it's an unfinished piece of shit.

[Spiteface]

Sonic Adventure was OK at the time as I recall.  The years have not been especially kind to it.  I think SA2 was better. Crazy Taxi hasn't aged that well either, and they took the soundtrack out too, which sucks.

Might be swinging wildly here, but it's probably Doctor Eggman

If this follows previous "main" Sonic form, the final, FINAL Boss you face in the game will not be Eggman himself.  This has largely been the pattern since Sonic Adventure - Eggman hatches grand plan, plan backfires, Eggman teams up with Super Sonic and the gang to defeat newer bigger threat.

SA1 - Chaos
SA2 - Biolizard/Ulitmate Lifeform Prototype
Sonic Heroes - Was thought to be main big bad, ended up being Metal Sonic
Shadow the Hedgehog - the Black Arms
Sonic the Hedgehog '06 - Solaris
Sonic Unleashed - Dark Gaia

This is basically Sonic Unleashed, but in recognisable environments.  Which is fine, I guess, if you like Sonic Unleashed.  Which no sane person does.

you do realise that this is bound to contain a bit of nostalgia, if it's the big anniversary release...

I will still maintain that the HD versions of Sonic Unleashed were actually really fucking good.  The Wii/PS2 version, less so.  If you're picking on ANY Sonic game, at least make it '06.  That one really WAS an unfinished piece of shit. One with a story dabbling in bestiality to boot. Wrongwrongwrongwrong.  Or even Shadow, Sonic with guns... enough said.

[buntyman]

The 2D style bit looks quite good fun but there's still too much zipping through one speed ramp after another with what looks like minimal control of what's going on on screen. The 3D stuff looks as rubbish as ever.

[The Region Legion]

It's the classic mistake of thinking that Sonic ever went that fast. He didn't. It's a platformer with a couple of set pieces where you're fired through a few speedtraps and spring-loaded pads. OK, the pace was always slightly faster than Mario, but the way they make them now seems like you practically don't control Sonic at all, its just an on-rails virtual rollercoaster, firing you through waves and waves of indecipherable shit. Watching the video up there is exactly the same as playing the game itself, so why bother?

[Spiteface]

A load of Hi-Res screen shots here: http://www.sonicstadium.org/2011/04/new-hi-res-sonic-generations-green-hill-zone-screenshots/

I don't care what anyone else says, after 20 years, I still get a kick out of seeing Green Hill, and it looks stunning in this new incarnation.

It'll be interesting to see just how close to the old-school gameplay they will get with the 2D "classic" Sonic levels.  I've been reading interviews and stuff and there is talk of it being more a case of "speed as reward" in these points.  Which pretty much nails the 16-bit gameplay.  Yes, there were bits where Sonic ran really fast, but usually these were broken up by trick platforming bits. Negotiate these, then you get a nice bit of speed.

but the way they make them now seems like you practically don't control Sonic at all, its just an on-rails virtual rollercoaster, firing you through waves and waves of indecipherable shit. Watching the video up there is exactly the same as playing the game itself, so why bother?

I don't agree here.  There's nothing worse than playing a level in Unleashed, only to make a slight mistake and come screeching to a halt (incidentally, at least it's your own stupid fault not the game unlike previous Sonics where I have fallen through the floor for no apparent reason), at best severely slowed down.  It happens, even quite early on.

If there is one thing I think they could to with tweaking from the way the gameplay in Unleashed worked, is not making the boost so accessible.  It's one thing to be topping it up by collecting rings (which are plentiful in most levels), but that meter when Sonic was fully levelled up could last a long time, then Sonic's speed pulls in other rings to reifll the thing anyway.  Making the boost more of a strategic thing might be a wise idea.#

One question I have though is about the choice of levels.  If this is taking in 20 years of Sonic, will Sega even acknowledge '06 in this?  In canon, if you can conceive of such a thing with Sonic the Hedgehog, the ending of '06 has the events of the game erased from history, it never happened. So will it purposely be omitted here, or will they do some of the levels and redo them, only good?

[madhair60]

Watching the video up there is exactly the same as playing the game itself, so why bother?

This is the most succinct and accurate dismissal of Nu Sonic I've ever read.  Bravo.

[SavageHedgehog]

I was thinking of buying Sonic Colours just because I've heard it's the first genuinely good Sonic game in at least a decade, but when I saw this I thought I'd hold out for it. Turns out it's not gonna be on the Wii though. Ah well, I guess I probably will buy Sonic Colours sometime, I just wish that had "old Sonic"; for some reason I really dislike the look of the lanky, green eyed Sonic.

[Spiteface]

Fuck you lot, I'm still excited for this game.

Another level has been revealed at E3... CITY ESCAPE~!

Sonic Generations - E3 2011 Trailer (City Escape)

One of my favourites from Sonic Adventure 2, and should be a good fit for the Unleashed/Colours style gameplay.  Still excited for this.  Hopefully the music is just a placeholder and "Escape from the City" will be the music for this one again.  No complaints really, thus far...

[momatt]

Also did they ever do more than the first part of Sonic 4?  I was waiting for the inevitable disc of all the parts together, but it looks unlikely with this new project coming out.
Should be interesting anyway.

[Spiteface]

From what I understand, there will be more episodes of Sonic 4, but my guess is that this one takes priority over that, as it's this year's "big" Sonic title.

To be honest, this should have been Sonic 4.  The 2D bits I've seen so far are closer to capturing the essence of the 16-bit titles than Sonic 4, unless episode 2 is giving the game a complete overhaul, I can't see any other explanation why it's been so long.

[momatt]

To be honest, this should have been Sonic 4. 

Exactly.  I think they were going for the retro charm like the new Megaman game.

I'd love to be able to recapture the excitment I had for Sonic 3, but a lot has happened since then.  Probably for the better really.

[madhair60]

I noticed Spagonia at the end.  Are they really doing that again, already?  Why not stick Mad Gear in there, while they're at it?  Or Planet Wisp, or something?  Fugginell.

I want Chemical Plant.  I also want Crystal Egg, but that's just a pipe dream.

[Spiteface]

I noticed Spagonia as well.  I am also confused as it was only three years ago.  I'm assuming it will be a brand-new layout and such.  The "Classic" version should be all-new.  There were purely 2D Spagonia levels in unleashed as supplemental stages, but they did make use of the homing attack and such, which Classic Sonic obviously won't have. Before I go any further:



Seriously, how cute is Classic Sonic?

There has been a leaked list of levels that supposedly is the complete line-up for this one:

http://www.tssznews.com/2011/06/08/exclusive-source-confirms-near-final-sonic-generations-level-list/

Sonic 1 – Green Hill *
Sonic 2 – Chemical Plant
Sonic 3 and Knuckles -  Sky Sanctuary
Sonic Adventure – Speed Highway
Sonic Adventure 2 -  City Escape *
Sonic Heroes – Seaside Hill OR Casino Park / Bingo Highway
Sonic 2006 –  Crisis City
Sonic Unleashed –  Spagonia / Rooftop Run Day *
Sonic Colors – Planet Wisp

I can actually sort of justify Planet Wisp being there, seeing as Colors didn't come out on XBox 360/PS3.  I wanna see something more reliable though.  Casino Night is being said to be in the 3DS version.  Sonic CD seems to have been glossed over though. Interesting to note there are no "Ice" or "Lava" levels in there.

From a purely canon point of view, I'm amazed Crisis City is going in.  Like I've said before, if you had the stomach to play Sonic '06 through to the very end (I actually didn't, it's awful), the true ending has the entire events of that game erased from history, Sonic wouldn't even know about it.  Maybe they just want to make something decent out of that debacle though.  Pleased to see Sky Sanctuary in there, that at least hints at a Knuckles cameo at some point.  We haven't seen any other characters pop up yet, aside from Sonic.  I'd have to assume Eggman is in, hopefully similarly retro-styled like Sonic has been, and Tails at the very least.

City Ecape Modern gameplay footage:

Sonic Generations "City Escape" Modern Gameplay

The interviewer shows his lack of knowledge towards the end when he doesn't even know what GUN is.  And the truck has freakin' SAWBLADES!

Classic footage:

Sonic Generations "City Escape" Classic Gameplay

I'm loving all the little details going into this, like the wanted posters.  This game reeks of fanservice, and I approve.

[madhair60]

Sonic 1 – Green Hill *
Sonic 2 – Chemical Plant
Sonic 3 and Knuckles -  Sky Sanctuary
Sonic Adventure – Speed Highway
Sonic Adventure 2 -  City Escape *
Sonic Heroes – Seaside Hill OR Casino Park / Bingo Highway
Sonic 2006 –  Crisis City
Sonic Unleashed –  Spagonia / Rooftop Run Day *
Sonic Colors – Planet Wisp

Huh.  Well, two of the ones I'd want are in there (Chemical Plant and Speed Highway).  No idea what they're playing at with Crisis City, I'm sure everyone would rather forget that game.  Also, putting in Unleashed/Colours levels is a piss-take whichever way you look at it.  Shit, I was JOKING about Planet Wisp.

Not sure how I feel about the Heroes stage - Heroes is fucking dreadful, but I'd prefer Egg Fleet, just to hear that music again.  I think Egg Fleet was just about the pinnacle of the game.

Also, I'd prefer Lava Reef to Sky Sanctuary.  But I do like Sky Sanctuary.  Mecha Sonic boss fight or bust.

I'd love to see at least one stage from the 8-bit games.  Gimmick Mountain, Crystal Egg, Sunset Park or Meta Junglira would be grand.

[Consignia]

Like I've said before, if you had the stomach to play Sonic '06 through to the very end (I actually didn't, it's awful)

As awful as it was, I would have finished it if it weren't so bleeding buggy. It was like they didn't even put it through a test cycle.

[Duckula]

Surely DLC of more classic Sonic levels would be a no brainer.

[madhair60]

I'd prefer that they just put them in the game in the first place.  Make the Sonic 2006 level DLC, for psychotics.

[Spiteface]

Bumping, as it is offically Sonic's 20th anniversary today, and  a demo of Sonic Generations is out there now.  Oddly it only features the Classic Sonic portion of Green Hill and expires in 20 days.

Currently being dissected by the Internet.

One theory is that due to the huge size of the demo's file compared what it actually playable right now, it might reveal more things over the 20 days. The presence of the Modern Green Hill music suggest this could be the case...


My little ramblings:

Spoiler alert

SUPER SONIC! IN-GAME! I know this was done in Sonic 4, but this also means MODERN Super Sonic in-game too, which hasn't been done yet.

Perfect Chaos as a boss.  Hell yeah.

The inclusion of '06 material continues to baffle me, for reasons I've gone over in the past, and the fact it is a terrible game, but I really don't want to see Silver (who appears as a boss) in a Sonic game ever again.  If I could get rid of him and bring back Chip from Unleashed, I'd be happier.  Shadow returning as a boss makes more sense, as he was a popular character when he debuted.

Awesome to see Metal Sonic make an appearance too.  Such a surprisingly underused character.  Him kinda taking centre-stage by the end was one of the coolest things about Sonic Heroes.

Possible Genesis/Megadrive emulator, interesting...

[close]

Looks like the leaked level list might be right, but this one could be a DLC field day...

[madhair60]

I think the file size is 'cos it's got the trailer in there, if you idle on the title screen perhaps?

Also, this game is confirmed for Steam, which means I can actually get/play it. *Grin*

[Consignia]

I had a quick whizz on the demo, and I can't say I'm too impressed. It feels like one of 3D remake demoes that of the 2D Sonic games that people make one level of and never finish. It still has the feel of press right to win of the latter day installements. The controls are a bit stiff as well. Looks and sounds pretty though.

[I accept the terms of the]

Right, it's totally uninspiring. The physics are better than other recent attempts, but the character still plays wrongly. The levels may as well be a randomly-generated sequence of obstacles. I often found it difficult to distinguish between things I can interact with and things in the background, also.

I don't see how any platform game fan could think this is good to play.

[madhair60]

[Spiteface]

Congratulations, you're one of maybe six people left who still use that thing.

I'm planning to check out the demo over the weekend (I'm just too tired after work every day to piss about with XBox live midweek), but it's probably worth metioning the demo has been confirmed to be a pre-E3 build from May.  Quite a bit could change...

Good lord, practically the entire line-up for the game is being leaked all over the shop now.  Someone at Sega fucked up by letting this many cats out of the bag.  Unless this is all intentional and Sega has other stuff lined up.  Unlikely, but not impossible.

[madhair60]

The demo at SoS today was different, it had a modern Sonic level, too.

It's obvious that the game is early in development, lots of glitches, enemies that don't die when they're supposed to, etc.  But, it seems perfectly solid.  Very Colours-esque.

[Spiteface]

Ladies and Gentlemen... CHEMICAL PLANT~!

And a look at the Metal sonic boss battle from Famitsu, which looks like it will take place in Stardust Speedway from Sonic CD, as it rightly should, although it's odd they'd recreate that level purely for a Boss fight, maybe some Sonic CD levels will emerge as DLC...

Anyway, Chemical Plant looks badass. Reminds me of Unleashed's Eggmanland level.