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"Echelon: The Most Secret Spy System"

Started by Pinball, June 03, 2004, 09:59:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Pinball

Documentary on History Channel (channel 561) you might care to peruse ;-)

Good to live in a free society isn't it? Freedom and privacy is what we fought for on D-Day after all, isn't it?

hahahahahah - suckers

Tokyo Sexwhale

Yeah, but we're all watching Big Brother instead.

Is that irony or am I Alanis Morrisette?

morgs

Was too busy watching Alias.... damn - is there a one hour plus channel it's on?  Will go and find out.

Tokyo Sexwhale

Quote from: "morgs"Was too busy watching Alias.... damn - is there a one hour plus channel it's on?  Will go and find out.

Speaking of Alias, have they shown the one with Ricky Gervais yet?

hoverdonkey

Quote from: "Pinball"

Good to live in a free society isn't it? Freedom and privacy is what we fought for on D-Day after all, isn't it?

'We'? Who's 'We'? That cat's mother?

Just realised I don't know what you do for a living PInny, if you'll be so bold as to tell me. Just out of curiosity.


Mr Flunchy

It's hardly the most secret system ever if it's common knowledge it exists.

Hairy Chin

Even I've heard of it, and I'm one of the most ignorant people I know with regard to my knowledge of Government in general, let alone allthe bits and bobs they can use to spy on us and all that gubbins.

Pinball

Quote from: "morgs"Was too busy watching Alias.... damn - is there a one hour plus channel it's on?  Will go and find out.
I missed it the first time it was on. History Channel will repeat it numerous times, however, so just keep checking the EPG.

Pinball

Quote from: "hoverdonkey"
Quote from: "Pinball"

Good to live in a free society isn't it? Freedom and privacy is what we fought for on D-Day after all, isn't it?

'We'? Who's 'We'? That cat's mother?
I meant "we" the British people. My general point is that we perceive ourselves as the "goodies" but I would say we are merely the "not-so-baddies" and certainly are not good. Our war-based and imperialistic history, with countless atrocities, is inglorious, so we are certainly not "good". Moreover, many of the principles our forefathers were conned into believing they were fighting for have been subverted (and indeed were often already subverted). Echelon is the extreme epitomy of that fact. Until Echelon (and even now), most people believed that governments, in order to wire-tap people, had to get court orders and then go round to the telephone exchange with their crocodile clips and bakelite recording devices. Many people honestly still believe this is the case if you talk to them! The reality is that we have no privacy (including bank records, ATM transactions - the works), and any attempts to acquire privacy are treated as a virtual criminal act, especially nowadays. Is this what it is to be free? By what right does "our" government treat us like criminals and control us to this degree?

In response to Echelon, people should have large-scale switched to hard encryption (www.pgpi.com) which would have defeated Echelon. This did not happen, proving that the European governments who whinged about the US/UK system want to do the same thing themselves.

Post-911 we have moved on from Echelon to have fingerprint databases for people entering the US, proposals for biometric ID cards, passports & driving licenses (with Total Information Awareness-type interlinking of all databases across government and beyond and international information sharing), the broadening of traffic cameras for monitoring number plates and drivers/passengers etc. etc. We currently live in an electronic totalitarian state which is worse in its reach than having secret police on street corners watching your every move. Just because it's invisible doesn't make it any less real.

My fear is that when the next big terrorist attack happens in the West, as clearly is inevitable, things will get even worse. Indeed, logically they can only get worse. If history has shown us anything it is that, if technology allows something to be done, however unethical or horrible or privacy infringing, it will be done - by governments, secretly.

With that background, I am deeply cynical as to any claims that "the West" is in the right, because we are not in absolute terms (though I accept we might be relatively speaking - but have you ever heard a caveat added by our jingoistic, manipulative politicians).

Personally I would never fight for a government just because they ask. I am not a coward, but I would not do so. I would fight and kill for my family, and even for my society depending on the circumstances, but I would not be cajoled into so doing just because some Cheshire cat smiling corrupt lying prick like Tony Blair says so. I would make my own decision. Fuck "The Sun Says" peer pressure. You just watch the D Day celebrations, and how they will be subverted by "our" leaders. I'm sure Blair will be more subtle than "hammertime" cowboy Bush, but the underlying sentiment and manipulation will be the same, preparing the ground for the horribly totalitarian big brother future they have planned for us.

Where are the honest people in politics???? Incidentally, I have already torn up my polling card. I see no point in voting for the colour of coat the rapist will wear.

neuteredcats

A fantastic response Pinball, couldn't have put it better if I tried...

Everything you said is right!

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: "neuteredcats"A fantastic response Pinball, couldn't have put it better if I tried...

Everything you said is right!

Except for the polling card bit. I know I keep saying it but if you don't like our system of politics register your disillusionment by spoiling your vote. Please, like.

Pinball



Bump for a Schnews Echelon-themed issue...

Why isn't Echelon in the news more? Why should it be entitled to any fucking privacy?? The privacy it so completely denies us.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: "Cheese Arse H Christ"http://archive.aclu.org/echelonwatch/faq.html
I get a dead link for that.  I googled and also found http://www.aclu.org/echelonwatch/index.html and http://www.aclu.org/echelonwatch/networks.htm which are also dead links.  Weird.  The aclu.org site isn't down either.  Not cached at google either.  web.archive.org has it though!

Pinball

Strange that. Anyone would think the media have been ordered to pull their links.

If the little (and rapidly diminishing) "freedom" we currently enjoy is the pinnacle of human civilisation, "God" help the future.


butnut

Well this thread is almost 14 months old, so that could explain some (but not all) the dead links.

Dusty Gozongas

Quote from: "Pinball"
Why isn't Echelon in the news more? Why should it be entitled to any fucking privacy?? The privacy it so completely denies us.

Poor dears. Busily trying to make sense of the nonsense at the mo' probably.  IT'S been given a job at last. Might even catch a few idiots who haven't heard of 'em.

JesusAndYourBush

Quote from: "butnut"Well this thread is almost 14 months old, so that could explain some (but not all) the dead links.
Woops, I never looked at when the thread was started.

Hairy Chin

'twas odd to see a reply from myself in here "How can I have posted in a thread I've only just started to re....oh, this is over a year old."

That's quite a bump, fair play.